Should there be an 'Open' Player Vs Environment Option on the Login Screen

[Lheim]

I vote 'yes' - because putting in the kinds of consequences for rampant PK that would make solo and private group PVErs comfortable with poking out into open again would have PVPers up in arms.

It's a fundamental difference between players in what they wanna get out of their play sessions. TONS of games split pvp and pve rulesets, and those that don't usually have to live with some kind of uneasy compromise or very bad reputation.

I don't believe the number of people who'd choose PVE is small, either. There's always a sizeable contingent of any MMO's playerbase - we're talking 20,000 in Mobius of the people who have spent an amount of time browsing reddit or the forums, and there's not that many players in any game that spend time doing that.

I just believe the best choices are either putting in open an pve mode, or making pvp death 'free'. The later wouldn't stop the ganking, and some people just don't want the experience even if it is free - but at least it wouldn't be so actively antagonizing for people who don't enjoy it but want social interaction.

And no. NO. PvP players do not get to hold social interaction hostage to get PvErs to come out and be fodder. That is wrong on so many levels.

 

[Roybe]

There's a bizzare mindset at work in this community. Help me out fellers, it's hurting my head.

Firstly, there is no meaningful penalty for PKers- call them anything you want, from hero to zero- there is pretty much nothing stopping an individual just shooting nine hells out of anything they meet. That is unlikely to change any time soon.

Secondly, although players can play alone, this is marketed as a multi-player experience. Some players don't like being PKed, but really like the idea of a multi-player experience. The game already supports this, as a lesser, more difficult to arrange game mode. You can play with friends, but you have to set the group up by yourself.

Thirdly, all the op is suggesting is making that mode, one that already exists and is populated by a 'tiny' community of over 20,000 players, 19k+ in one group alone, easier to enter and arrange.

What's the problem with that?

Most games have a co-op mode these days. I regularly play a popular shooter based around modern tank warfare. It's PvE mode is extremely popular, to the extent that many players avoid it's PvP mode. Funnily enough, their forum is filled with threads decrying the mode, insisting that it should be made less attractive than the PvP one. I don't understand that, either.

Some people don't want to be killed by human players. The aggressive, macho antics of our own PvPers might have something to do with that- 'it's Elite Dangerous ', 'baby turtles that stay on the beach too long get eaten', 'cowards and cheats avoid open'.

Guys, some people don't want to play that way. We're lucky they've stayed at all- there are plenty of other games out there they could be playing instead. We, this community, need players, both established and fresh. A co-op or PvE mode appeals to people, even those who like pretending to blow up enemy tanks! Why shouldn't we have one, too? If players leave open for the proposed mode, what does that tell you about what we've turned open into?

Hmmm....what, indeed? At least you are seeing the problem the way the devs have hoped the PvP community would...Open is yours to support or defile as you see fit. My only thought on this is that there really is no way to have a PvP free, co-operative experience in this game.

 

[Bacalao]

I don't understand why people think FD would have a problem implementing this. Just make it so you can't shoot another player. Anyone choosing this mode would not be trying to shoot another player anyway, so what difference does it make to those playing normal PVP. People need to stop trying to control other peoples gameplay. This kind of mode doesn't hurt or interfere with anyone else.

Lol, this whole proposed mode is about controlling other people's gameplay.

 

[Lheim]

Lol, this whole proposed mode is about controlling other people's gameplay.

Yes. Sorry. Freedom does not equal the right to go over to your neighbour and randomly konk them on the head if you're in the mood to do that. I don't understand why people have difficulty grasping the concept that it might be unpleasant for a lot of people to experience that.

In real life freedoms don't extend to allowing people to infringe on others' safety and comfort.

 

[excalibus]

Remind me what the game is called? .... Oh yeah ... Eliteangerous
How about remove all game options and have 1 .... Play
It would stop this PvE, PvP, Open, group talk

Lol, this whole proposed mode is about controlling other people's gameplay.

Actually it's about setting an environment that meets up with what a certain player type in the game wants. namely those players that want to play PVE in a multiplayer environment, of which there would be a ruleset of course... and more importantly making it an option from the login screen, for those who don't come to the forums, for those who don't know about what private groups they can play in that will offer them that experience etc. Without requiring a third party to administer...

So those who wish to play Multiplayer PvP can still do so without restrictions, those who wish to play Multiplayer PVE+PVP can do so without restriction and those who wish to play Multiplayer PVE only can also do so without restricions beyond either risking being kicked out of that mode for PVP activities or being unable to engage in PVP activities in that mode...

As it stands right now Solo and group rules both control a players gameplay, so that is a moot point indeed...

 

[Gully Foyle]

I think the definition of dangerous is exactly that. I voted no also because it seems to me it would soften the risks of our game.

I also feel that because there is a link to the forums right in the launcher and stickied threads there describing Pve groups available that a Pve option is already covered.

The number of CMDRs being PKed I think is overestimated I suspect and overall Open is quite safe.

o7 fly safe

 

[excalibus]

There should always be a solo mode for players that require that kind of gameplay for whatever reason, there should always be a mode where Multiplayer PVP exists and there should always be a mode where people can play Multiplayer PVE (wether that mode has limited PVP in certian preordained situations or not is another matter)


And can we please steer the thread away from becoming a general PVP vs PVE, O v S v G discussion and back onto either the merits / demerits of the proposed idea

 

[Space Dandy]

As a programmer I can tell you this would be trivial to implement (eg hidden private group) so your content argument is irrelevant. As is Jackboot's comment (above)

"Newbs should fly solo" - thank you for telling everyone what to do!. This is not an argument either.

"Because some of us don't believe in protected PVE" (above) - this is not an argument.

Rather than "timidland" I believe some want to play "simulatorland" <previous page> but otherwise a great point was made there.

I play in open and expect to continue to do so. The only harm is people leaving open who don't want to play pvp anyway. What enjoyment could you get out of that anyway? <wonders>

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Good point. I wish we had also super strong police in high tech areas to make things more dangerous for me in my FDL.

edit: I expect this poll to REALLY not represent the player-base. More "extraverted" types feel more lonely in space and are also more likely to post on the forum.

I would rather dev spend time fixing other "trivial" things rather than this but we already have this so again what is the big deal? Join Mobuis and have at it, I play mobius...really it changes nothing whether I click group rather than open pve...


You seem to take exception to the word newb....maybe the internet slang is new to you so let me explain..."newb" is a neutral word meaning newbie or new player...there's nothing insulting about it...your thinking of the word noob which IS meant as an insult.

When I say a "newb" should learn to fly in solo its not meant as an insult but rather as advice so you can concentrate on learning the game controls and the like without worrying about gankers and griefers etc which is rather the point to this whole thread is it not...otherwise why want a open pve "button"?

You seem to think I am some bad ass pker that wants to drink noob tears when I am actually a solo/mobius player that has zero interest in pvp so please try to untwist your knickers even if I think this whole thread is ridiculous as we already have this via group.

Waste of time.

 

[Deleted member 102790]

I think the definition of dangerous is exactly that. I voted no also because it seems to me it would soften the risks of our game.

I also feel that because there is a link to the forums right in the launcher and stickied threads there describing Pve groups available that a Pve option is already covered.

The number of CMDRs being PKed I think is overestimated I suspect and overall Open is quite safe.

o7 fly safe

Your "dangerous" point - is a non argument for other people's gameplay that does not affect yours.
Voting "no" - has nothing to do with risks in open for you so is a non argument.

You feel it is "covered" - how is this an argument? "I want an open pve" says one, your answer "nah, you covered because <waits for effect....winks...talks in a conspiratorial whispering tone...there is a link to the forums <nods a few times>".

Wait I get it "I now see I don't need open PVE, why? simple. I have a link to the forums!!! of course if the link was removed I would then ask for open pve but as long as that is there...I'm good!" LOL, sorry too funny

 

[Deleted member 102790]

Space Dandy, sorry but your post honestly makes no sense to me at all. Edit - each statement was an answer to a different person's post, sorry if that was not clear.

All the personal stuff you are saying, newb, that I am upset, you are bdass, noob tears etc - I am not sure where you got all that but wasn't thinking even remotely any of it at all.

For example I assure you it is trivial to accomplish on the programming side - almost nothing - so any argument that it is taking time away from other things is irrelevant - that is my honest view.

Saying so is not a personal attack at all, wasn't meant to be taken that way at all

 

[Space Dandy]

Space Dandy, sorry but your post honestly makes no sense to me at all. Each statement was an answer to a different person's post.

All the personal stuff you are saying, newb, that I am upset, you are bdass, noob tears etc - I am not sure where you got all that but wasn't thinking even remotely any of it at all.

For example I assure you it is trivial to accomplish on the programming side - almost nothing - so any argument that it is taking time away from other things is irrelevant - that is my honest view.

Saying so is not a personal attack at all

Mate go back and read your post with your "quotes" about my personal opinions and the terminology I use that you are taking exception with .... you are nit picking because I think it a waste of time, and I don't care how trivial it would be to implement it still a waste of time for no gain.

You tried to lump me in with some of the pvp/anti pve people to try and diminish or trivialize my opinion when I am a purely pve player.

As a pver I think this is a huge waste of time because we already have access to a "open" pve group you just need to apply.

I am not really trying to make arguments against it just stating my opinion, I am just saying it's waste of time period.

There far more for FD to concentrate on than this silliness.




When I want to play alone and not be bothered I hit solo, when I want to play open pve I hit group/mobius.

 

[Deleted member 102790]

Sorry mate, I did and answered you and yet you are still inserting meaning that I did not intend at all again! Tried to lump you in - just don't get it - sorry just none of what you are saying is going on in my head....fact.

It is not a waste of time because the implementation would be literally nothing - one hidden private group and a menu item. If you are upset by this then I am sorry because the reality is it is trivial to accomplish.

So sorry but I still stand respectfully by my opinion. A "huge" waste of time. Respectfully again, you could not be more wrong imho.

All the best.

 

[Momoka Azuka]

I was gonna say no to this but then thought about for a bit. Actually there are a lot of MMOs that do this already. TERA comes to mind out the gate since I just started playing it recently. Being to an MMO like that would be gamer suicide if I attempted to take on the pvp servers in that game. But I'm the type to just dive in to an area where I know players are and hope to make friends quick so I don't get murdered out of the gate, plus I like playing with people so I'm gonna pick the option where there's people. It would also eliminate the need for a solo mode since the only real reason to use solo is to avoid players kills.

Granted I don't know if it's even possible for FD to make that type of change to the servers seeing they run ED on I think two amazon servers. I voted yes but I don't think it will ever be a thing. Would it be cool if they did do it? Sure. Will they? Kinda doubt it. Is it really important? I don't think it is.

 

[Space Dandy]

Sorry mate, I did and answered you and yet you are still inserting meaning that I did not intend at all again! Tried to lump you in - just don't get it - sorry just none of what you are saying is going on in my head....fact.

It is not a waste of time because the implementation would be literally nothing - one hidden private group and a menu item. If you are upset by this then I am sorry because the reality is it is trivial to accomplish.

So sorry but I still stand respectfully by my opinion. A "huge" waste of time. Respectfully again, you could not be more wrong imho.

All the best.

Yes yes sure, go have a crumpet mr subtle.

I was gonna say no to this but then thought about for a bit. Actually there are a lot of MMOs that do this already. TERA comes to mind out the gate since I just started playing it recently. Being to an MMO like that would be gamer suicide if I attempted to take on the pvp servers in that game. But I'm the type to just dive in to an area where I know players are and hope to make friends quick so I don't get murdered out of the gate, plus I like playing with people so I'm gonna pick the option where there's people. It would also eliminate the need for a solo mode since the only real reason to use solo is to avoid players kills.

Granted I don't know if it's even possible for FD to make that type of change to the servers seeing they run ED on I think two amazon servers. I voted yes but I don't think it will ever be a thing. Would it be cool if they did do it? Sure. Will they? Kinda doubt it. Is it really important? I don't think it is.

ED doesn't use traditional servers like say Tera. ED has a server only in the sense of needing one for account info and for the BGS.

The BGS is all run off the same servers for all modes which is also why game mechanics are the same in all modes, it's not like some games where you can have a pvp or pve server which are independent from one another which is also why we don't need character transfers to go from one "mode" to the other.

A real pve open server, with rules different than the open we have now would require far more work than what some think unless your just wanting FD to make its own pve group which frankly is kind of pointless as we already have a very successful one.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I'm curious on how we will all look back on this in 5 years time.

Will there still be open vs solo debates raging? Will all the dedicated PvPers moved onto other games which cater more to their tastes? Will FD take steps to cater more to PvPers and we will see the PvP community grow?

Personally i'm happy i can play the game the way i want, and am very curious how things will pan out of over the coming years. I look forward to sitting in my dotage, reading back on some of these discussions we had, back in the day

 

[Pluvialis]

Because some of us don't believe in protected PvE.

That's actually the point of the discussion, though. Should a game that professes to want to cater to every play style suppress a particular play style because advocates of another don't "believe" in it?

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Challenge for all Open PvE supporters:

Tell the community how Open PvE should work other than just adding a cheat that negates damage done by players. Try to treat NPCs the same way you treat players.

 

[Shizuka]

Open PvE: Friendly fire-off.
Real Open: Friendly fire on.

Im against separate modes of gaming with the same character, but i would do this for this idea.

 

[JerichoX]

This is a ridiculous idea that should go nowhere.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Open PvE: Friendly fire-off.
Real Open: Friendly fire on.

Im against separate modes of gaming with the same character, but i would do this for this idea.

So a bounty hunter could still arrack a wanted player and powerplay enemies can still fight eachother? And what about the clean targets? Are these immortal now? The last point must not be the case as it is the cheat I am talking about.