Yep. Among other things, back then devs said they would ban players from Open if they engaged in too much griefing.The ability to play in an Open "group" with different rules *was* included in the sales pitch for the game:
.... as were more meaningful punishments for PKing that have not been implemented.
It would be interesting. Keep mindlessly killing defenseless ships for no in-game gain and you could find yourself only able to log into Solo. I wonder how much complaining and bickering it would cause in the forums...
Not everyone sees that difference. Heck, I don't truly see it; while I'm perfectly capable of reading a game policy about griefing and, based on it, refrain from calling certain behaviors "griefing", for me "unwanted player contact" — and particularly when the aggressor is made aware that his target isn't enjoying the "player contact" but refuses to back down — is basically the same as griefing.What really unnerves me about your quoted text is the way it feels implied, by Frontier, that PvP is griefing. The way that the majority of this forum feels that any and all unwanted player contact is "griefing" is really sad. There is a huge difference between "unwanted player contact" and "griefing" in this game.
If the admin tools are made better enough that managing a PvE group becomes effortless, why not create one such group as an official mode?I would rather the devs put their efforts into improving the crime and consequences system across all modes and giving Private Groups better visibility and admin options.
Open, after all, is nothing more, nothing less, than a default group everyone is automatically a member of.
Nope. I, for one, will never engage another player without we both explicitly agreeing to fight. Any rule that would allow another player to fire at me without first securing my consent would be unacceptable. The version of Open you proposed is a mode I would never play in.With strict, fair, transparent rules in Open, there's no reason why everybody couldn't play there and be happy.
For me that would never work. While I'm trigger happy with NPCs, I will never attack a player without first somehow securing his consent to fight. If I can't differentiate players from NPCs, then I would be unable to initiate combat anywhere.Hrm
A thought, instead of more modes and whatnot splitting the players up even more, maybe take a page from some of the old mud's.
- Remove 'cmdr' from scan name by default.
- Remove hollow square's, so there's no radar difference by default.
- Upon interaction, be that interdicting a person, or attacking hem or whatnot, only then reveal attackers nature, them being a player do not reveal defender unless they fire on attacker, maybe adding a feature separate from friend list where you can acknowledge who you are, to a person, which would make you show up as a hollow square, and they 'know' you, even if you are not on friend list.
Doing so might make pirates a bit frustrated, but there's no reason not to pirate npc's as it is currently, you can earn a lot of money doing that with the new way npc's spawn.
But otherwise it would make Elite a big universe where you don't know who you meet.
Maybe allow it so that people you are in a group with show up as hollow squares, groups basically having acknowledged each other?
Thoughts? idea's to make it work better?
And that doesn't even get into my dislike of being attacked by other players without first giving my consent to the fight.
It's why the Ultima Online devs changed their internal definition of Griefers to "someone who, through his social actions, costs you more money than he gives you." And then used that definition to convince the suits to back an all out war against griefing (which, ultimately, ended with Trammel being added).Regardless of whether they are 'cowardly bully types' there is no question that they are a liability to the game - they drive off customers. Accordingly, nothing FD does should be done with the view to facilitating such behaviour. That simply doesn't make business sense. If they are upset, and go away, good. Higher sales, and more investment in a game that the rest of us can enjoy. And hopefully a few of those driven away will learn that they have to take the consequences of their own actions...
Just like griefing, even if limited, is possible in any PvE game or game mode. Doesn't make the existence of PvE games or modes any less worthwhile.Has anyone considered that griefing is actually possible in an Open PvE mode? Someone could follow you around and annoy you, block your pad, deliberately steal your kills in a RES or stop you from mining. You can bet people would find any avenue to be annoying in open PvE...
And, in any case, removing PvP also removes the most direct venues for griefing, making it far less effective when it happens, and less satisfying to even attempt for the griefers as the damage they can cause is lessened. Griefing in PvE is like someone continuously hitting you with a teaspoon, while in large-death-penalties-PvP griefing it's instead a sledgehammer.
Nope. The official reason for the Solo mode is because Frontier acknowledges that some players don't want to meet anyone else, friend or foe, and fully supports that choice. The low bandwidth is just a nice side-effect.The official reason for the solo mode to exists was to allow players with low bandwidth to play the game.
New mechanisms, obviously. It's easier and cheaper for Frontier to do it this way, instead of putting an employee to work moderating the group, and it would be more effective to boot because doing it at a mechanical level can prevent the attacks from happening in the first place, while moderation can only kick unruly players from the group after the damage is already done.And you believe FD would be fine to do this all day long? Or are you suggesting this 'Open' Player Vs Environment' to bring some new mechanisms like ship self-destruct if you open fire at another player, like in Eve?
Not sure you know, but "play your way" is used a lot in this game's marketing effort. Can't fault customers from demanding what they have been promised.Also yep, I know, some players like/demand to play "their" game their own way. It's a notion I am not used to actually.