Shutdown Field as ultimate self defense system

You know gankers are going to build a silent running Orca and use this to disable and then ram people to death. Or just unwing before firing so their wingmates can kill you

The solution to ganking is not to add OP weapons

Absolutely this. The thing with leaving the wing also was the first idea coming to my mind, right when reading the suggestion.

So we're already immediately at two easy to use methods to use this new tool for ganking. And i get the feeling that there's a number of other options and it'll be close to impossible to cover them all without making the thing completely useless. It'll definitely be used more as ganking tool than it will help against it.
 
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Erm.. Why do you need this?

Fit a slightly better shield, and any ship can escape a wing of gankers just by submitting and immediatly highwakes.

Yes. Even Eagles can eascape fully fitted PvP ships with this method.
 
Read again the OP and explain me how...

See above. The first two most obvious methods were already explained:

1. Bring ultra-heavy hull tank ship. Use gank-module, ram the disabled ship. (Might also be the last nail in light ships coffin in PvP. Just disable them for a while and smeer them over your windscreen while they are disabled. )

2. Come in a nav-locked wing. Interdict victim. While victim is in FDS cooldown, ship with gank-module leaves the wing, then uses the module. Rest of the wing is not in the wing any more, thus not affected, and can just kill away.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
 
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Shields? Useless versus gankers, they go down with a couple of shots.
High wake? I never had the time....

What ship are you flying?

I can quite safely bet, me, or someone in my Squadron *cough* Aashenfox *cough*, can build you a gank proof ship, without costing more than a few LY in range.

We're all a bit mad about theorycrafting in GARD. Lol

And by "gank proof" I mean it'll survive plenty long enough to jump.
However if you just sit like a lemon, nothing will help. Lol
 
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Why don't you just build a gank proof ship instead?

Hmm. There is no absolute gank-proof ship. Give me the best of all ships and i still will find a method to mess up and get me destroyed in it. But indeed you can improve your odds a lot by following some design principles.
 
Spit coffee on the screen....

Just in case I misunderstand, are you suggesting this is not achievable? As cosmicspacehead pointed out, we do love a good theorycrafting challenge here at GARD.

Please feel free to post your ultralight explorer build and I will gank-proof it for you at no more than a cost of 7% of its range (which I think anyone would agree is reasonable to be 'gank-proof'), I do not deny that extreme engineering is required, but it is to gank as well. ;) If you have the engineers you do not need to be a victim, and I say again...

The ABSOLUTE IRONY of this, is that we who pvp have to deal with 20 minute furballs due to the MASSIVE defense inflation that they provided to engineering EXACTLY SO THAT EXPLORERS DIDN'T NEED TO BE VICTIMS ANY MORE!! We ask why they don't use it and the answers just make me cry (it's too hard, I don't want to, I shouldn't have to, etc).

Explorers and traders seem to WANT to be victims, FD, there was no need for you to provide such amazing defense for so little overhead, so please can we lower this massive defense inflation? Thanks!

Disclaimer: Definition of gank proof: A ship that could be set upon by up to three medium ships with pvp griefer loadouts, and survive that provided the pilot did the correct steps in the correct order without panicking... Turn and boost toward (and past) your interdictor, put 4 pips to shield and 2 to engines, keep boosting. Now LOW wake (yes, I said low wake, it's perfectly effective because if you have a big enough ship after you to mass lock you you should be able to outrun it), and then as soon as you are in SC, turn around 180 degrees, pick a system that only an explorer build could reach (40+ly away) and jump. You are now safe.
 
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It's not a particularly good defence.

1) If it disables your own high-wake, then you won't be able to stow hardpoints and charge your own low-wake in the 10 seconds before your attacker comes back online, if they're big enough to masslock you. And your shields are already down at that point, so you really need to be gone before that happens. Can you get out of masslock range in ten seconds?

2) If it's taking 3-4 LY off the range of an Anaconda with a G5 engineered drive, that implies a mass of around 128 tonnes, or a standard 7B module. That's implausibly large for anything that fits in a hardpoint at all, and also considerably heavier than an existing set of fire-proof shields would be... (on an Asp, a 32t module would drop that much range, which again is quite a bit heavier than just buying shields would be).

3) It's no use at all against a wing of attackers - the second one can just wait until you've fired it to enable navlock and drop in with a fully-powered ship. Or ... they can wait until you low-wake and immediately interdict, and then you've fired it and have no shields, so you're not going to last long.

4) You've got a pretty small window in the typical exploration build between "shields down" and "hull down". So there's a good chance the ship will explode anyway before it can actually fire it, if you try to use it in combat.

It's got a lot more potential as an overpowered offensive weapon - one person in a wing fires it, while the rest take advantage. Or for attacks on explorers, hit someone with it as they come into land and let gravity do the rest. You really wouldn't want to trust anyone who brought one to a meetup, which is not a great look for a "keep explorers safe" tool.
 
Just in case I misunderstand, are you suggesting this is not achievable? As cosmicspacehead pointed out, we do love a good theorycrafting challenge here at GARD.

Please feel free to post your ultralight explorer build and I will gank-proof it for you at no more than a cost of 7% of its range (which I think anyone would agree is reasonable to be 'gank-proof'), I do not deny that extreme engineering is required, but it is to gank as well. ;) If you have the engineers you do not need to be a victim, and I say again...

The ABSOLUTE IRONY of this, is that we who pvp have to deal with 20 minute furballs due to the MASSIVE defense inflation that they provided to engineering EXACTLY SO THAT EXPLORERS DIDN'T NEED TO BE VICTIMS ANY MORE!! We ask why they don't use it and the answers just make me cry (it's too hard, I don't want to, I shouldn't have to, etc).

Explorers and traders seem to WANT to be victims, FD, there was no need for you to provide such amazing defense for so little overhead, so please can we lower this massive defense inflation? Thanks!

Disclaimer: Definition of gank proof: A ship that could be set upon by up to three medium ships with pvp griefer loadouts, and survive that provided the pilot did the correct steps in the correct order without panicking... Turn and boost toward (and past) your interdictor, put 4 pips to shield and 2 to engines, keep boosting. Now LOW wake (yes, I said low wake, it's perfectly effective because if you have a big enough ship after you to mass lock you you should be able to outrun it), and then as soon as you are in SC, turn around 180 degrees, pick a system that only an explorer build could reach (40+ly away) and jump. You are now safe.

Heater repped me, so I guess you misunderstood him :)
 
Heater repped me, so I guess you misunderstood him :)

It;s definitely possible, I did open with 'unless I misunderstand'? And I'm still glad I said my piece again. They need the reminder. Thanks for the rep by the way :)
 
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We know how this weapon works from Thargoids.

The idea is to have this module available also for our ships for self-defense only.
This module is a proposal for exploration builds to have an ultimate defense and allow escaping from pirates or gankers.

You can equip this module as a hard point. Only one shot is available. The mass of the module is defined so that it will reduce the jump range by 3-4 LY on a typical exploration outfit configuration.

It is pure energy and it is Thargoids adapted technology, so the module is only recharged in Witch Space and it requires “n” jumps (let’s say 10) to be operative again.

You can fire the shutdown field only when your shields are down (manually off or disrupted by the opponent). Shields are not automatically disabled like in the Silent Running Mode. This is to be sure that you’re using the shutdown field because your ship is exposed or it’s taking damage.
The opponent (pirate or ganker) needs to be selected as target, no aiming is required, the shutdown field is omnidirectional.

It will paralyze the target ship and the ones in wing (if any). It will not paralyze other ships (to avoid exploits).
It will completely paralyze also the player modules and weapons (to avoid combat exploits) except:

  • the Generator
  • the Thrusters
  • the FSD (only Supercruise availabe)
this is to allow escaping.

The Shutdown field lasts for 10 seconds and you can’t log off in this timeframe. After the 10 seconds the pirate/ganker ship is fully operative again, shields included.

-will it work on NPC?

-the FSD (only Supercruise availabe)? so if they have friend , they just send one ship in, and the rest wait for you to pop up again... with a depleted weapon?

-Will it disable point defence... make pirating a lot easier for me.have it on a friend ship ( don't really have a friend), use it to disable the target, then i come in only needing a cheap hatch barker, or, just smash open that cargo bay.

Just that is seems like a very powerful tool, that would cause untold fun and unbalance (i kinda wanna see it in play)... explorers would find it the lest beneficial :(


Have touched on the subject of 'explorer ship types' and some of the restricted modules they could have (may make a proper suggestion in the suggestions section :p ). I like that your giving it ago, but there seem to be to many holes:(

Need to take the idea you have, and in your head, run it though every possible scenario you can think of... Not just the ones you may face. Then it's time to put it in-front of others to find out the bits you didn't think of.

Don't let this thread get you down, but take in the feedback, even if it is a bit snarky (i like snarks :p)
 
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Shields? Useless versus gankers, they go down with a couple of shots.
High wake? I never had the time....

If you straight line toward your destination you will get shot to bits. Postioning is just as important in an escape attempt as it is in the midst of combat.

You can have the best, most well engineered ship in it's class, but if you don't know how to position it or yourself, you'll get beaten by someone in a lower class ship with no engineering. As much as engineering unbalances the equation, at it's heart this is a skill based game. Which is why you hear the phrase "Git Gud" on the forums alot.

Theory and practice are synonymous. You know the theory, but the excecution you need to work on, so go to a CG with a cheap ship (With a good set of engineered thrusters) and hang around letting people pull you untill you can escape wings of four with no problem. Just remember that most ships have considerably weaker yaw stats than anything else in terms of movement (FAS being the major exception you'll be likely to see). So when looking to avoid fire, contantly make an effort to postion yourself to the side of the enemy craft, this means they have to move on three planes to effectively maintain targeting, which in turn means they have to put in very much more effort than usual to land a shot, if you can maintain superior positioning like that until your FSD is charged you can escape without even losing a ring of shields. especially in somthing small and lightweight.

If you get it down to where you're low waking despite mass lock, and with taking next to no damage, you'll drop off the radar for all but the most determined killers, simply because they'll consider you to be too hard a target. You'd be surprised how long I can AFK for in cruise and not be touched when in a Viper or iCourier, simply because people know at this point that the TTK on those small ships easily equals a good FDL if the pilot has spent enough time in them. They're just considerably more irritating to chase around.
 
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The Replicated Man

T
This would just be abused by everyone and not just explorers. The last thing we need is an unbalanced superweapon for people to exploit.

Next thing we see is everyone is running these and people are making threads like:

Nerf The Shutdown Field!
Griefers use Shutdown Field to Gank me! Plz Nerf!
PvPers Exploit Weapon designed for Explorers!

 
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Just in case I misunderstand, are you suggesting this is not achievable? As cosmicspacehead pointed out, we do love a good theorycrafting challenge here at GARD.

Please feel free to post your ultralight explorer build and I will gank-proof it for you at no more than a cost of 7% of its range (which I think anyone would agree is reasonable to be 'gank-proof'), I do not deny that extreme engineering is required, but it is to gank as well. ;) If you have the engineers you do not need to be a victim, and I say again...

The ABSOLUTE IRONY of this, is that we who pvp have to deal with 20 minute furballs due to the MASSIVE defense inflation that they provided to engineering EXACTLY SO THAT EXPLORERS DIDN'T NEED TO BE VICTIMS ANY MORE!! We ask why they don't use it and the answers just make me cry (it's too hard, I don't want to, I shouldn't have to, etc).

Explorers and traders seem to WANT to be victims, FD, there was no need for you to provide such amazing defense for so little overhead, so please can we lower this massive defense inflation? Thanks!

Disclaimer: Definition of gank proof: A ship that could be set upon by up to three medium ships with pvp griefer loadouts, and survive that provided the pilot did the correct steps in the correct order without panicking... Turn and boost toward (and past) your interdictor, put 4 pips to shield and 2 to engines, keep boosting. Now LOW wake (yes, I said low wake, it's perfectly effective because if you have a big enough ship after you to mass lock you you should be able to outrun it), and then as soon as you are in SC, turn around 180 degrees, pick a system that only an explorer build could reach (40+ly away) and jump. You are now safe.

No not at all.... just when I read the post I had just took a drink of coffee, that ended up on my screen :)
 
Read again the OP and explain me how...

In case you missed everyone else's reply...

- Equip the module on a shieldless vessel that is both massive, fast, and well armored (FAS, Chieftain, Crusader, Clipper, Orca, etc).
- Interdict target.
- Use shut down field on target.
- Boost through target vigorously, until sated.

Things would be even easier if the attacker had a wing as multiple opponents could use the shutdown ability in sequence, while the others engaged with weapons.

It's not a particularly good defence.

1) If it disables your own high-wake, then you won't be able to stow hardpoints and charge your own low-wake in the 10 seconds before your attacker comes back online, if they're big enough to masslock you. And your shields are already down at that point, so you really need to be gone before that happens. Can you get out of masslock range in ten seconds?

2) If it's taking 3-4 LY off the range of an Anaconda with a G5 engineered drive, that implies a mass of around 128 tonnes, or a standard 7B module. That's implausibly large for anything that fits in a hardpoint at all, and also considerably heavier than an existing set of fire-proof shields would be... (on an Asp, a 32t module would drop that much range, which again is quite a bit heavier than just buying shields would be).

3) It's no use at all against a wing of attackers - the second one can just wait until you've fired it to enable navlock and drop in with a fully-powered ship. Or ... they can wait until you low-wake and immediately interdict, and then you've fired it and have no shields, so you're not going to last long.

4) You've got a pretty small window in the typical exploration build between "shields down" and "hull down". So there's a good chance the ship will explode anyway before it can actually fire it, if you try to use it in combat.

It's got a lot more potential as an overpowered offensive weapon - one person in a wing fires it, while the rest take advantage. Or for attacks on explorers, hit someone with it as they come into land and let gravity do the rest. You really wouldn't want to trust anyone who brought one to a meetup, which is not a great look for a "keep explorers safe" tool.

Pretty much.

Just the ability to disable weapons in private group mode would end this debacle.

Most exploration builds too weak to escape a gank in Open wouldn't need weapons to shoot down. You'd have to disable collisions as well, at the very least.

Not that they'll enable either, as this would undermine all that PvE content as well.
 
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