PvP simple question about ed pvpers.

[Krash]

Smoking new players in starting zones is pretty lame. I mean, I've done it, but grew tired of it very quickly. If you're going to go after them, make sure it's fun for them too. Grab folks just to say hey. Pirate them. Reverse pirate them. Take them hostage and teach them how to dock. Silly stuff like that. Before I left the Bubble it was fun to pull new players, give them a KWS scan, then give them a nice message about being clean. The 'Wait, you're a player?' response was always great.

If a new player is outside the starting area though... I'm less inclined to look down upon it. Bit like leaving Vault 101 and heading straight into Deathclaw territory. That's a valuable lesson. Know what I mean?

I want to try this with obvious new players I find that are "wanted". That way I feel justified. They are hard to find tho. Every "wanted" player I pull just wants to fight to the death.

 

[Duck & Jenny]

This approach is tempting, but I'm afraid I wouldn't be able to pull back in time or would get caught up in the heat of battle and poof there goes the paper sidey. And then there's the call of the dark side and all that. Better leave slippery slopes unslipped (for me that is).

I've yet to experience any "heat of battle" with a Harmless Sidewinder (or Adder or even Cobra). They usually just run, run, run. Funny thing is that I'm often in a Sidewinder myself! The toughest ship I use for my "cat batting around a mouse" games is a Viper. And that's pretty much what I do, bat them around a bit, usually with shock cannons or FSD-jamming missiles, just to make them wet their pants, LOL. I never kill them, however, mostly for them, but also because it's a lot easier to clear an assault bounty than it is a murder bounty. But mostly I do it because I don't need to destroy a player's ship to enjoy PvP.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Better idea: stop caring what other people think of you and your playstyle and keep repeating the fundamentals of this game.

Open Play is Open Play. Prepare for it. If you don't, don't get salty if you get smoked. Sure, it's ok to be frustrated or even mad for a few moments - but pick yourself back up and get back to it. On the other hand, it's not for everyone and that's OK.

Private Group and Solo Play are excellent mode choices if you're not interested in Open Play. No one should shame you for them, and if they do, poo poo on them.

Thing is I personally do not care what people think of me and my playstyle. My fault is I sympathise with those who make a mistake in playing open expecting civilised behaviour from all other players. I tried the understanding route, even tried to open the eyes to the "human" element but it was pointless, as people are playing the game as they see fit and FD allow that. Players who don't care for PvP should not really be in open. I still think FD should do a LOT more regarding keeping high end players challenged whilst making it a bit harder to seal club.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I want to try this with obvious new players I find that are "wanted". That way I feel justified. They are hard to find tho. Every "wanted" player I pull just wants to fight to the death.

Then do the right thing and indulge them!

Deciat is a good place for new players that happened to be Wanted. Once caught a poor Krait out there. Flew into Garay's while wanted and paid no mind to the two FDLs hanging out in front of the station. Poor guy didn't have a chance.

Asellus Primus and vicinity might be good as well. Trick though, is that if they ask why you killed them, make sure it's clear you were upholding the law. Hopefully that sparks something creative in them.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Thing is I personally do not care what people think of me and my playstyle. My fault is I sympathise with those who make a mistake in playing open expecting civilised behaviour from all other players. I tried the understanding route, even tried to open the eyes to the "human" element but it was pointless, as people are playing the game as they see fit and FD allow that. Players who don't care for PvP should not really be in open. I still think FD should do a LOT more regarding keeping high end players challenged whilst making it a bit harder to seal club.

Have the confidence in people to 'make a mistake.' Humans are resilient. Finding out Open Play isn't civilized and then deciding to stick with it is just as much a valid response as deciding to switch to Private Group or Solo. Plus, one can always try Open Play a bit later once they're better equipped via skill and/or Engineering.

To your last point I would welcome both more activities for late game players and more difficult seal clubbing (though not impossible... perhaps).

 

[Leper Messiah]

Have the confidence in people to 'make a mistake.' Humans are resilient. Finding out Open Play isn't civilized and then deciding to stick with it is just as much a valid response as deciding to switch to Private Group or Solo. Plus, one can always try Open Play a bit later once they're better equipped via skill and/or Engineering.

To your last point I would welcome both more activities for late game players and more difficult seal clubbing (though not impossible... perhaps).

Indeed I was just referring to those that complain about it vociferously. Open is not an option for them. If a player can handle it and learn from it then it's all good.

 

[Duck & Jenny]

I've yet to experience any "heat of battle" with a Harmless Sidewinder (or Adder or even Cobra).

Actually, I take it back - I get SERIOUS heat when I fire on Harmless Sidewinders, because I do so as they are leaving the station! I'm actually surprised how often I survive the full firepower of a station and fleet of police ships. Small and fast saves the day

ps - this actually shows that there really is nowhere safe in Open. I could easily and very quickly destroy a starter Sidewinder in my Viper and live to tell the tale, right outside of a station... If a station can't protect them, then what can? And then there's the ramming exploit, which I refuse to use because it's cheap and borderline cheating IMO...

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

But mostly I do it because I don't need to destroy a player's ship to enjoy PvP.

Explosions are cool for sure and I believe in competitive PvP play it's absolutely right to fight to the death. It's also useful for training, as folks will be suprised how far your ship can actually go!

But out in the wild? Say you're engaging in some kind of Powerplay or BGS related campaign? Ship destruction is good but driving the enemy from the field can be just as good. Eyes on the prize, I often tell my people. Having an overarching strategic goal really softens the blow of not getting the kill, your enemy fighting from PG or Solo, and many other little annoyances that we so often see voiced on the forums.

Well, in any case, it's worked for us.

 

[Duck & Jenny]

Explosions are cool for sure and I believe in competitive PvP play it's absolutely right to fight to the death. It's also useful for training, as folks will be suprised how far your ship can actually go!

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem killing other players. I just don't like killing Harmless Sidewinders. I also prefer having a "reason" for destroying other players, be it PP or a faction war or bounty hunting. I'm a roleplayer in ED, so murder for murder's sake doesn't fit my ethos.

 

[Krash]

Actually, I take it back - I get SERIOUS heat when I fire on Harmless Sidewinders, because I do so as they are leaving the station! I'm actually surprised how often I survive the full firepower of a station and fleet of police ships. Small and fast saves the day

ps - this actually shows that there really is nowhere safe in Open. I could easily and very quickly destroy a starter Sidewinder in my Viper and live to tell the tale, right outside of a station... If a station can't protect them, then what can? And then there's the ramming exploit, which I refuse to use because it's cheap and borderline cheating IMO...

You can still finish off your victim with a ram and bypass the notoriety?

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

I’ve always been a fan of roughing up the new guys just enough to disable their ship, then walking them through the reboot process.

This often results in a bounty, which some novices might try to claim.

I think my favorite instance was when a pair of Novice Vultures came after me. I ended up disabling one, and beating up the other quite a bit.

The one that was still mobile eventually had enough of my nonsense, and absolutely blindsided me with a ram lol.

I was so proud.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem killing other players. I just don't like killing Harmless Sidewinders. I also prefer having a "reason" for destroying other players, be it PP or a faction war or bounty hunting. I'm a roleplayer in ED, so murder for murder's sake doesn't fit my ethos.

I used to kill just because I could. Once I did it for a reason though? A really compelling reason? There was no going back.

 

[jasonbarron]

Smoking new players in starting zones is pretty lame. I mean, I've done it, but grew tired of it very quickly. If you're going to go after them, make sure it's fun for them too. Grab folks just to say hey. Pirate them. Reverse pirate them. Take them hostage and teach them how to dock. Silly stuff like that. Before I left the Bubble it was fun to pull new players, give them a KWS scan, then give them a nice message about being clean. The 'Wait, you're a player?' response was always great.

If a new player is outside the starting area though... I'm less inclined to look down upon it. Bit like leaving Vault 101 and heading straight into Deathclaw territory. That's a valuable lesson. Know what I mean?

Oddly as some might find it, I've never actually smoked a new player in a starting zone. One of my favorite activities back in the old days of AA was to go in to Erevate with a severely Wanted FdL and wait for all the protectors to scramble and come drive me away. There was some awesome PvP to be had there, but no innocents died.

Not that I haven't killed new-ish players mind, just not seal clubbing in a starter zone. One of the funniest times was when I was visiting Cleve's Hub and came across a wing of three new-ish players who were bounty hunting in a nearby system where they were actually Wanted from blasting NPC's illegally. I winged up with them and went to their bounty hunting system where I then proceeded to call them out on their unlawful behavior, and when I saw them all at Cleve's a few minutes later smarting from their recent visit to the rebuy screen I can assure you there was some extremely choice comments getting thrown my way. Good times

 

[Slange Lands]

I also belong to both camps.
I understand the frustration that seasoned PvPers may have.

One little solution:

Use your boredom to teach PvP. Market how in depth and deeply satisfying PvP is and reduce the fear it may engender.

Instead of making humorous PvP videos, make humorous PvP teaching videos that are so basic that even my 90 year old father can understand.

Instead of "look what I did videos", make "look what you can do and how to do it" videos.

There are many guides out there, but guides can always be improved. For instance, "Hello Kitty's guide to finding target noses." It took me forever to realize and understand what all the HUD symbols mean. I was just taught about the left bottom attitude indicator and how to reconcile that with the solid and hollow triangles surrounding the hostile in the center. Then there are all the symbols for the various experimentals which appear at the bottom of our ships icon..... Then there are all the cooldowns.... Making videos about what to many may seem obvious would be a boon to we potatoes.

And we potatoes are legion.

Do not underestimate being a teacher either. From analyzing your techniques to better and more clearly articulate and describe them to others, you are guaranteed to find improvements in your methodologies. You will be an even more formidable opponent.

o7

P.S. Toaster Face, that is, SAI-4, Null's malfunctioning android in a Dracula suit, would be a most excellent teacher. I love the sound of Toaster Face's voice and much prefer it to Obsidian Ant's. Sorry Ant, but humans just don't do it for me anymore. <3

 

[Duck & Jenny]

You can still finish off your victim with a ram and bypass the notoriety?

That's my assumption. This weekend a Cutter rammed my Courier while I was still in Garay station. He later finished me off outside (caught me typing). I can't imagine he'd risk that very nice and expensive Cutter within firing range of a station unless ramming still doesn't register as murder.

I'd love to be wrong, especially if it means he did lose his Cutter

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

I'd love to be wrong, especially if it means he did lose his Cutter

Yes... yes. Let the hate flow through you!

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I'm still waiting on an explanation as to how Stockholm Syndrome is connected to attending a community event and listening to fifty-something e-spaceship enthusiasts acting like someone playing the game the way it was designed is akin to murdering babies.

PvPer kills somebody for the lulz

That somebody gets mad/annoyed by that

PvPer gets disgusted by the reaction

Because of that reaction, the PvPer keeps killing players

Ad infinitum

In your case, you simply got to see the second step but IRL instead of a PM on the game.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

PvPer kills somebody for the lulz

That somebody gets mad/annoyed by that

PvPer gets disgusted by the reaction

Because of that reaction, the PvPer keeps killing players

Ad infinitum

In your case, you simply got to see the second step but IRL instead of a PM on the game.

You have no idea what Stockholm Syndrome is.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

You have no idea what Stockholm Syndrome is.

Yes I do, I said it was similar (to be precise a kind of), I don't think it takes much mental gymnastics to see the simmilarity.

 

[Phisto Sobanii]

Yes I do, I said it was similar (to be precise a kind of), I don't think it takes much mental gymnastics to see the simmilarity.

In my view all the gymnastics are on your side of the pommel horse. For example, there's no captivity or hostage situation here, is there? No one's lives or well being are being threatened either, are they? Never mind that there's some debate about whether Stockholm Syndrome is a real thing. Oh, and the best part? Of course this is something discussed around sexual assault and things like that. Glad we're back to that so easily. And to think the past couple pages have actually been some really nice conversation.

Do us a favor. Drop gymnastics and pick up a simpler sport!