Simple Suggestions For An Exploration Overhaul

[Lestat]

This whole idea will undermind Wear and Tear and Risk and reward of this game. It would also make it unfair fo players who like the Risk and reward and pushing their ships to the limit and getting it home. Where people fly out and fly back. That earn their Names for that system. Where this idea would undermined the Foundation of Exploration.

 

[rphtx]

This whole idea will undermind Wear and Tear and Risk and reward of this game. It would also make it unfair fo players who like the Risk and reward and pushing their ships to the limit and getting it home. Where people fly out and fly back. That earn their Names for that system. Where this idea would undermined the Foundation of Exploration.

I would disagree that having data transmitted back to the bubble would undermine exploration lol...There is plenty of risk just being 25k out. If my discovery data is sent back by x, y or z method, it still doesn't effect whether or not I plow into the next sun or crash land or whatever other terrible end. It would still be the end of my trip! Yea, I can see it being a bit different and you could self destruct if you wanted to get back to the bubble, but in the end it really doesn't change much as far as the overall act of exploration.

I would at least prefer a way to get my data sent in when I'm within say 1000LY of the bubble. That way I've still risked everything going out and back, but I wouldn't face losing everything if killed. I know some players think it would be cute to steal data or think its funny to kill someone who just explored for 6 months, but it really is a poor feature of exploration. If you have never read the stories of people getting wiped out by npc's or pirates after a long ass trip, then most haven't experienced jumping 10,000 times! So to be clear...if killed...100 of hours of exploration down the drain with only a bill for a new ship to show for it. Yes it is exhilarating to fly far out and make it back without a scratch, but its really not as enjoyable as it could be with the ability to send your data ahead.

 

[DHMeyer]

I would disagree that having data transmitted back to the bubble would undermine exploration lol...There is plenty of risk just being 25k out. If my discovery data is sent back by x, y or z method, it still doesn't effect whether or not I plow into the next sun or crash land or whatever other terrible end. It would still be the end of my trip! Yea, I can see it being a bit different and you could self destruct if you wanted to get back to the bubble, but in the end it really doesn't change much as far as the overall act of exploration.

I would at least prefer a way to get my data sent in when I'm within say 1000LY of the bubble. That way I've still risked everything going out and back, but I wouldn't face losing everything if killed. I know some players think it would be cute to steal data or think its funny to kill someone who just explored for 6 months, but it really is a poor feature of exploration. If you have never read the stories of people getting wiped out by npc's or pirates after a long ass trip, then most haven't experienced jumping 10,000 times! So to be clear...if killed...100 of hours of exploration down the drain with only a bill for a new ship to show for it. Yes it is exhilarating to fly far out and make it back without a scratch, but its really not as enjoyable as it could be with the ability to send your data ahead.

Thanks for another voice of reason.

 

[Hydrino]

I disagree to make it too easy to send data back and sell it. Parts of the game need to have risk and reward. Hopefully the implementation of data recorders as loot will mean scavenging wrecks may result in exploration data to sell and piracy might include requesting exploration data instead of cargo.

The star counter ides sounds like part of the envisioned Pilot's Log as I imagined it; right-hand screen with a tab per Elite Rank, combat, Exploration, Trade, etc. with achievement numbers tied to each.

there are lots of ways FD could make discovery a bit more interesting, I'm sure they have them on the list somewhere, just unknown priority. An easy one to me would be flashing up data onto the HUD from the Stellar Forge and which should be on the system map after explored, but during the scan as the instruments compile it. Things like chemical composition, atmosphere, wind speeds, gravity, etc. to give more life to the honk and scan showing data that should end up on the system map eventually. More scan types in a single scanner and more scan types overall; spectroscopy, radiation and magnetic field detection, lidar and radar, chemical sniffers, soil samples, and gravity fields with indication of likely additional planets for the more advanced scanners, with accuracy going up for every planetary body found, and similar potentially interesting things.

 

[DHMeyer]

I disagree to make it too easy to send data back and sell it. Parts of the game need to have risk and reward. Hopefully the implementation of data recorders as loot will mean scavenging wrecks may result in exploration data to sell and piracy might include requesting exploration data instead of cargo.

I agree that risk and reward are important part of games. Thing is, in Elite the proportions are totally skewed. As for the risk, what you risk is spending hours in front of the screen, getting your eye sight worse, repeating the same procedure over and over again, system in, system out. There isn't any real risk in exploration, other than unlucky accidents and being blown up when entering the bubble again. I totally agree that exploration needs risk, but this risk should be based on game content. On events that trigger a little exploration story for each player encountering them, on things that throw you off the planned path and give you the opportunity to discover something unique, something dangerous, something with a storyline to it.
As for the reward, when it comes to financial rewards of exploration, that's barely existent. It's more of a token of gratitude of Universal Cartography. And it's fine, the excitement of going into big unknown is there and it is a great reward on its own. But the reward for going thousands of light years away from inhabited systems shouldn't be the option to scan or scan in a slightly different way, but something unique. I know that every system and every star is unique and had we been discussing wonders of the Milky Way during an astronomers' symposium, we would have a blast. Alas, this is a computer game, created with the purpose of being entertaining. Which means it needs not more tasks that can be repeated, but more objects that are one of a kind, special and unexpected.
I love exploration and I love having access to the faux Milky Way Frontier created. It's spectacular. But it needs something to force players to think on their feet, to make decisions other than deciding whether they surface scan this bit of rock first or the other one. Some risks are unrealistic and dysfunctional and they discourage players from exploring the galaxy and enjoying its sights. As I said, exploring and seeing things is fun for the sake of itself, but I feel it could use some more surprises, wonderful and dreadful, out there.

The star counter ides sounds like part of the envisioned Pilot's Log as I imagined it; right-hand screen with a tab per Elite Rank, combat, Exploration, Trade, etc. with achievement numbers tied to each.

there are lots of ways FD could make discovery a bit more interesting, I'm sure they have them on the list somewhere, just unknown priority. An easy one to me would be flashing up data onto the HUD from the Stellar Forge and which should be on the system map after explored, but during the scan as the instruments compile it. Things like chemical composition, atmosphere, wind speeds, gravity, etc. to give more life to the honk and scan showing data that should end up on the system map eventually. More scan types in a single scanner and more scan types overall; spectroscopy, radiation and magnetic field detection, lidar and radar, chemical sniffers, soil samples, and gravity fields with indication of likely additional planets for the more advanced scanners, with accuracy going up for every planetary body found, and similar potentially interesting things.

Again. That's more scanning for nothing. For bits of random information, which you are not going to remember, which is going to leave no trace in your mind. You will remember great views, that's for sure, but not what was on which planet. In a week you won't even remember there was a planet with this or that property. You would remember events and encounters happening out there, you would remember stories the game told you. Having a spreadsheet of data is not going to be memorable. Once again, putting an artificial limitation, preventing players from undertaking exploration in first place is a mistake when you have a game which shows you how wonderful the universe might be. There needs to be more interaction with the environment out there, not just passing by. Not punishing players for their curiosity could be a first step in good direction. Even one small tool, one small quest, like recovering your exploration data after a catastrophe already creates a bit of a story for the player and can be expanded into more content filling the space.

 

[Velixar]

I think players needs to start writing down their star starting point for exploration. Use that as gambling. More star explored + distance from bubble + wear and tear = higher risk for destruction. But the pay out can also be good.

Note with the Horizon update the Risk has gone down for players. They can refill their repair unit and fix cracked canopy.

So do we really need to make exploration any easier? I don't think so. It already too easy for players.

 

[DHMeyer]

I think players needs to start writing down their star starting point for exploration. Use that as gambling. More star explored + distance from bubble + wear and tear = higher risk for destruction. But the pay out can also be good.

Note with the Horizon update the Risk has gone down for players. They can refill their repair unit and fix cracked canopy.

So do we really need to make exploration any easier? I don't think so. It already too easy for players.

The suggestions mentioned in this thread have nothing to do with making exploration easy. They have everything to do with making it more immersive, more enjoyable, more fun and also, more purposeful. The challenge is there and will remain there. You have to commit your time to exploration, which makes it very different from any other activity in Elite (where you can switch between them very much at will). None of the things suggested is not going to change the fact that doing an odd 50k Ly, scanning and admiring stuff on the way, is a demanding activity.
That someone can refill their repair kit and fix cracked canopy? It's common sense, this feature should have been there from the day the game was released. It is and it has always been part of the exploration process throughout the human history. Crews of the ocean faring ships were always looking for locations where they can find suitable materials to repair their vessels battered by the storms on the way or encounters with enemies. They were always looking for fresh water and food. So it's good to see some representation of that in Elite.

But the main thing I believe Frontier should be focusing on now, when it comes to exploration, is to fill the space with something different than the scientific data. And by filling the space I don't mean making every system full of things to find there, but adding a chance of encountering something in space.
Things like:
1. ) A mysterious, abandoned vessels of some strange alien race floating somewhere. Which we can examine and scavenge for technology
2. ) A human settlement, some unusual space station established by some loonies who wanted to run away from the humanity and live somewhere on the other side of the galaxy, far away from political turmoil of the bubble, still using technologies developed hundreds of years ago and creating their own, unique inventions
3. ) An inhabited system somewhere in the galactic rim, research station established in secret to observe behaviour of some black hole or some other mystery of space
4. ) A Dyson Sphere around some distant sun. In a system full of automated, strange vessels and installations keeping it extremely dangerous for any passers by
5. ) Comets in the systems
6. ) Planetary belt built entirely of space junk left floating over some scorched planet with no signs of life
7. ) Strangely shaped object (say, a perfect cube) jumping from system to system, with no means to interact with, of unknown origin
8. ) A planet covered with some sophisticated installation of unknown purpose and origin, without an inch of natural landscape left
9. ) Human made space probes
10. ) Debris left over by some unlucky explorers whose ship malfunctioned. Heck, be it even an empty Asp Explorer you can set on autopilot to follow you for examination when you get back to the bubble. Or jump into and use yourself, should you wish so.

These are just a few examples. The astrophysics and astronomy is there in the game. Science is there and its cool. Now it's time to add some mystery. Not saying in every other system, those should still be exceptionally rare finds, but in my opinion making exploration more interesting, more rewarding demands not so much new mechanics being added to the game, but more things to discover out there.

 

[Velixar]

You know the only part I don't like is the drones sending back info. We did not have that in 1492 and should not have them on Elite. It makes exploration too easy.

 

[OMIKRONXI]

Landing on planets to get some soil samples for further analysis would also be nice while it is easy to implement for sure. And it would make planetary landing finally meaningful to explorers.

 

[Lestat]

Landing on planets to get some soil samples for further analysis would also be nice while it is easy to implement for sure. And it would make planetary landing finally meaningful to explorers.

That ideas I like. I also like what DHMeye last comment had 1 to 10. The only problem we has been getting is People not wanting anything after 100 LY. Including NPC pass 100LY from the last station.

 

[DHMeyer]

You know the only part I don't like is the drones sending back info. We did not have that in 1492 and should not have them on Elite. It makes exploration too easy.

Back in 1492 you'd toss a message in a bottle into the sea. Which allegedly Columbus has done, preparing messages for the Spanish monarchs and putting them in water-tight containers he then attached to one of the ships, so in case it perished during a storm, the news of his discovery would still reach his sponsors (hopefully). Also, there is one very important difference between explorers of the past and explorers in imaginary 34th century, that being technology. If humanity still exists then and if we don't wipe out ourselves and our technological achievements, I would expect we won't forget how to send space probes and program their route. Those might not be big enough to allow for an FSD, so I think a simple black box, left within the system where the ship was destroyed, is a more plausible solution. Ship destruction could then generate a mission marker and a mission, which of course you could abandon, like any other mission.

But, Frontier will do what Frontier will do. Their sandbox, their buckets and shovels. Some players are against such a solution, so I'd imagine some people at Frontier might share similar views. I think it would be more immersive and more realistic, but it's only my opinion

 

[Lestat]

Don't you think it would go down with the ship if it attached to the ship?

 

[DHMeyer]

That ideas I like. I also like what DHMeye last comment had 1 to 10. The only problem we has been getting is People not wanting anything after 100 LY. Including NPC pass 100LY from the last station.

Thanks. To be honest, I have nothing against the current exploration mechanics, other than it's basic, but then I didn't expect it to be extremely complex and final, Frontier expands on existing systems all the time. I think that black boxes could be interesting, but that's, again, my opinion, people don't have to agree with that if they have a different point of view and that's fine.

I also think that not meeting anything further than 100 Ly away from the bubble is not the best idea. I wouldn't expect pirates to be tremendously active away from the trade routes, but there surely would be all types of people who might have their own agenda when it comes to remote areas of space. Even as trivial as mining Painite, Platinum and Osmium in some area incredibly rich in those resources. Greed fueled exploration efforts on Earth in the past, I find it difficult to believe that corporations of ED don't bother looking for riches somewhere on a path less travelled. If Federation established space stations in 17 Draconis (400 Ly from Sol), somebody should do similar things even further away.

 

[OMIKRONXI]

I would agree the blackbox solution - with all the gathered data to be found after ship destruction - is a good compromise: It provides a lifebelt for your data, but as you have to pick it up - maybe thousand LY away - it prevents people from using ship self destruct as a fast-return-ticket - what they sure will use a drone for. Plus it keeps the thrill in exploring.

 

[DHMeyer]

I would agree the blackbox solution - with all the gathered data to be found after ship destruction - is a good compromise: It provides a lifebelt for your data, but as you have to pick it up - maybe thousand LY away - it prevents people from using ship self destruct as a fast-return-ticket - what they sure will use a drone for. Plus it keeps the thrill in exploring.

Still, some people find this black box idea (not mine, btw) to make exploration too easy or that it would take the risk out of exploration. Oh well...

 

[OMIKRONXI]

Still, some people find this black box idea (not mine, btw) to make exploration too easy or that it would take the risk out of exploration. Oh well...

I read one or two threads written by people who lost all their data have been quit playing ED for that reason. I don't know if I would go so far. But at least there is a great chance that I wouldn't go on exploration again for a long time. And the risk of getting lost in space during exploring will enhance due to planetary landing...at the latest when FD's going to create better reasons to land than buggy driving or sightseeing.

 

[DHMeyer]

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/clear.gif

I read one or two threads written by people who lost all their data have been quit playing ED for that reason. I don't know if I would go so far. But at least there is a great chance that I wouldn't go on exploration again for a long time. And the risk of getting lost in space during exploring will enhance due to planetary landing...at the latest when FD's going to create better reasons to land than buggy driving or sightseeing.

And I can understand them. I do not have weeks or moths of exploration at a time under my belt, but loosing weeks or months of progress within seconds in a computer game seems a bit over the top to me. Elite is supposed to have a life span of a decade or so as a project and I believe it's crucial to keep players in, not to make them quit playing over something that could be adjusted to be consistent with the gameplay mechanics, lore and wouldn't ruin the immersion. My personal view is that a good game is one that gives the player choices in how they can play it, one that balances risk and reward well and one that does it best to make player activities to relay on repetitive tasks as little as possible. The game shouldn't be easy, by any means, but in my opinion making basic tasks tedious and discouraging is not the way to go.

 

[OMIKRONXI]

Yes, a good game should satisfy both the "pro-gamer" and the "casual-gamer". One of those "middle-ways" could be my latest invention, a data transmission antenna(tm): Once manually activated or automatically (in case of emergency) it broadcasts the collected data home. Since it's reliability decreases with every lightyear between your ship and the next inhabitated system, only a variable percentage of your data will be received back home. So this won't help you much if you blow up your ship near Sagittarius A*. But if you're doing a stupid mistake at the very end or becoming victim of a pirate attack with nearly the mail-slot in sight, most of your data will be saved.

Like the Black-Box solution I plead to implement this as a modul type, so it needs space, it's weight reduces the jumprange slightly and it consumes power. So everyone could decide to use it or not. The utility mounts would be the most logical place for such a type of module. As there is currently nearly no equipment available in this position that is of use to explorers, it won't be a problem to use it in the smaller vessels, too.

 

[DHMeyer]

Yes, a good game should satisfy both the "pro-gamer" and the "casual-gamer". One of those "middle-ways" could be my latest invention, a data transmission antenna(tm): Once manually activated or automatically (in case of emergency) it broadcasts the collected data home. Since it's reliability decreases with every lightyear between your ship and the next inhabitated system, only a variable percentage of your data will be received back home. So this won't help you much if you blow up your ship near Sagittarius A*. But if you're doing a stupid mistake at the very end or becoming victim of a pirate attack with nearly the mail-slot in sight, most of your data will be saved.

Like the Black-Box solution I plead to implement this as a modul type, so it needs space, it's weight reduces the jumprange slightly and it consumes power. So everyone could decide to use it or not. The utility mounts would be the most logical place for such a type of module. As there is currently nearly no equipment available in this position that is of use to explorers, it won't be a problem to use it in the smaller vessels, too.

I like this one, especially data deterioration the further away the pilot is from the bubble. The only question is where does it transfer data to. Now we know it's stored on the ship. Although, surprisingly, the pilot apparently carries that data with them when swapping ships Just seems to "forget" how to do that when out in the black...

 

[metatheurgist]

And I can understand them. I do not have weeks or moths of exploration at a time under my belt, but loosing weeks or months of progress within seconds in a computer game seems a bit over the top to me. Elite is supposed to have a life span of a decade or so as a project and I believe it's crucial to keep players in, not to make them quit playing over something that could be adjusted to be consistent with the gameplay mechanics, lore and wouldn't ruin the immersion. My personal view is that a good game is one that gives the player choices in how they can play it, one that balances risk and reward well and one that does it best to make player activities to relay on repetitive tasks as little as possible. The game shouldn't be easy, by any means, but in my opinion making basic tasks tedious and discouraging is not the way to go.

It's easy to stay out for months and not die. It doesn't need to be easier. If you're careless and you have weeks of data, that's your choice and your failing. You don't have to stay out for weeks, you can make elite in exploration by putting around in a 500LY radius of the bubble. That's the riskless option.