Small detail changes which could improve sense of scale in ED

Ophion

Ophion
@VR fanboys:

Always the same answer: GET A VR! Really? You are so boring. We get it, everything looks better with VR. But not everyone has 2000$ gaming rig at home.

Anyway, OP is talking about something else here and I feel the need to explain it to you using some pictures [big grin]

5RX1LDx.jpg
So even if VR makes it look a lot bigger, there's not enough information, you still don't have an acuate scale for your brain because there's no point of reference, nothing familiar to compare it to, like a human body.

Now, take a look at these two pictures and dare to tell me there's absolutely no difference between them when it comes to scale perception!

BAD:
I6tWSFV.jpg
GOOD:
yo2IXIM.png
Possible and easy solution: Put some people near the ships. They can just stand there and do nothing, it would be enough, we could appreciate the true size of our ships. Most of us are aware of it but just can't see it properly right now.

So to recap: VR is NOT the solution. It makes things look a lot larger than they appear on 2D monitor but how large exactly - nobody knows without a valid reference object of known size, period.
 

Captain N

C
Ophion said:
@VR fanboys:

Always the same answer: GET A VR! Really? You are so boring.
Click to expand...
Nah it's flat gaming which is boring. I wouldn't even consider playing a game like this without VR anymore. That's yesteryear. Retro gaming!

I actually can see quite clearly how large the Eagle is in the VR main menu screen, which conveniently has that very ship standing right in front of you when you log in. I can see it's about two storeys high, because it towers above me.

And if you rotate around it in the hangar, you should be able to see the staircase going up the front leg of the landing gear and into the hull even without VR. That's a human-scale reference right there. All the ships have various human-size details built into their hull if you look closely, such as doors and ladders. And if in doubt you can zoom into the cockpit and see the literally human avatar sitting there!

So to recap: VR is NOT the solution. It makes things look a lot larger than they appear on 2D monitor but how large exactly - nobody knows without a valid reference object of known size, period.
Click to expand...
Well you're not going to gauge sizes exactly by eye balling alone - that much is true in real life as well. Our senses aren't that accurate to begin with and an alien environment like space is going to throw it off even further. But you can betcha things look exactly as large in VR as they would in reality.
 
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JonSnowman

J
Captain N said:
It feels like looking at a small, flat picture about 1 metre in front of me, like every 2D game does on my monitor.

Yes, as another VR user I felt obligated to barge in and express my smugness at this thread.
Click to expand...

I used to have 3 x 32" monitors measuring 2.1 meters across, completely filling my vision, and the scale in ED is still looks completely wrong.

And it looks wrong because you can't set a FOV to match your screen size. VR takes the problem away, but its a very easy problem for FDEV to fix. They just don't seem to understand the problem and neither do most people here.

FYI the larger your monitor the smaller you would set your FOV. But the minimum setting in ED is still way too large for any monitor to give a realistic scale.


Screenshot_0000-e1516425153259.jpg
 

Captain N

C
I was just about to make a post to agree with your earlier FOV comments! And here it is!

I would say, for those without VR, the external vanity camera is your best friend in bringing out the scale of the ships - if you use it right, anyway.

I suggest making the FOV as small as you comfortably can, and taking shots from "below" the ship while it's sitting on the pad. Or just zoom into the cockpit to show the pilot. JonSnowman is right in that FOV makes a difference, so playing with it is a good idea. The FOV controls for the external camera go much further than the settings for the regular in-game camera allow.

Some of my old screenshots to demonstrate:

CT2St24.jpg
9QH8C28.jpg
WzOMehM.jpg
JjTFnVW.jpg
2VDSQLl.jpg
y02W0vZ.jpg
WtU7z2I.jpg
 

JonSnowman

J
Captain N said:
I was just about to make a post to agree with your earlier FOV comments! And here it is!

I would say, for those without VR, the external vanity camera is your best friend in bringing out the scale of the ships - if you use it right, anyway.

I suggest making the FOV as small as you comfortably can, and taking shots from "below" the ship while it's sitting on the pad. Or just zoom into the cockpit to show the pilot. JonSnowman is right in that FOV makes a difference, so playing with it is a good idea. The FOV controls for the external camera go much further than the settings for the regular in-game camera allow.

Some of my old screenshots to demonstrate:

https://i.imgur.com/CT2St24.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/9QH8C28.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WzOMehM.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JjTFnVW.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/2VDSQLl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/y02W0vZ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WtU7z2I.jpg
Click to expand...


Exactly. I was hoping Camera Suite would be a permanent fix but the lack of free camera within the ship means that you can't set it properly.

THe two controls required are something like FOW with a really low setting. As well as the ability to then zoom out to a level where you can still see the controls/overlays.

Live For Speed (not need for speed) did this brilliantly, if anyone ever played that old racing sim. You could set both the FOV and the head position.
 

Ziljan

Ziljan
GraXXoR said:
Just because most people don’t have VR does not invalidate the solution.
Click to expand...

The reason most people don't have VR is the same reason they will continue to not have VR. And those reasons aren't likely to change in the near term. Further, some people have purchased VR and for a variety of reasons still use their monitors much if not most of the time.
 

GunnerBill

GunnerBill
sleutelbos said:
I sincerely doubt 'just buy a $300 headset and a $400 GPU plus possibly upgrade your CPU.' is really a good solution to a general issue. Adding a banana actually would be better. ;)
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I don't recall OP setting out any budgetary constraints or timescale in his search for a solution. OP asked for a solution to his perceived problems with scale in ED and VR is a readily available solution. It even has it's own forum here.

Some of the criticisms of VR as a solution a just pathetic or was an actual answer to OP not what this thread was about?
 

Cheapchips

Cheapchips
Alongside people, modern TAA would also help. Even at the highest level of supersampling detail objects are mess of pixel crawl.

I'm not sure how you'd 'fix' Elite's FOV. I thought it was set up that way to compensate for the massive cockpits? I'd always though it was a clever idea to ensure UI consistency!
 

777Driver

777Driver
Ophion said:
now.

So to recap: VR is NOT the solution. It makes things look a lot larger than they appear on 2D monitor but how large exactly - nobody knows without a valid reference object of known size, period.
Click to expand...

Sorry mate buy you have clearly not tried VR, it doesn't just make things bigger It displays everything in actual size with real depth. THe OP describes the L-Pad hangar as a large basement, that couldn't be further from the truth when viewing it in 1:1 scale The hangar structure is gigantic.
 
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jamieboo

J
I use VR and it still doesn't solve the scale issue for me.

Potential reference points like the aforementioned bundles of cables seem to 'big'. Yes it's feasible to get a cable with a 1.5m diameter but smaller cabling would sell the scale more.
Similarly I find the lights too big (individual light points, and those colossal light strips along the side of Farraguts), also plumes of vapour, damage 'scuffs', and the general chunkiness of ships edging. They just all seem too big to me and undermine the sense of scale, even in VR where the general geometry feels correct.

But then I am a fool.
 

Ian Skippy

Ian Skippy
JonSnowman said:
I used to have 3 x 32" monitors measuring 2.1 meters across, completely filling my vision, and the scale in ED is still looks completely wrong.

And it looks wrong because you can't set a FOV to match your screen size. VR takes the problem away, but its a very easy problem for FDEV to fix. They just don't seem to understand the problem and neither do most people here.

FYI the larger your monitor the smaller you would set your FOV. But the minimum setting in ED is still way too large for any monitor to give a realistic scale.


http://www.gearnut.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Screenshot_0000-e1516425153259.jpg
Click to expand...

I dont think there is a cap in the ini, it just becomes silly at some point. :p
 

kilvenny

kilvenny
Having played in VR, VR makes this game scale wise seem way better and huge! Since going to VR I find it very difficult to go back due to the sense of scale that it immediately realises. The biggest issue for me in 2D is there are no visible people. I think just adding a ground crew guy on your pad would make you start to realise the scale.
 
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