Smuggling is broken because of wrong choice of illegal trading.

[Roybe]

I am not an expert in illegal trading, however, there are 2 differing models that I am aware of. One is fencing. You bring illegal goods to someone, who buys it at a discount against the expected price, then taking the risk of reselling it marks up the price and receives the difference. This makes sense when we are turning in 'found articles'..black boxes, rare art, etc. We sneak in the stolen goods and receive a price for them...since the items were 'found' we have no money in the inventory so any price given is profit. 'Smuggling' stolen goods in plays correctly within the game...this is not really smuggling, this is dealing in stolen goods and fencing.

Smuggling is altogether different. True smuggling is buying contraband in a system where said contraband is legal and bringing those goods to a market where they are prohibited. In these places, the contraband SHOULD be highly desired and short on supply, which would make the exchange highly profitable..until the prohibition is lifted OR demand is sated.

This is why people are upset with the smuggling system in E: D. We fence everything, there is no reason to bring in prohibited items since they are treated as a fenced good. I have done this type of trade run 4 or 5 times and lost my shirt each time. I have tried to bring in battle weapons to Civl War stations, Tobacco into various stations, etc.

How can this be fixed? Either allow the sale of a good that is traded on the commodity market to be traded there (even in a prohibited market), openly showing the price and demand or allow traders some glimpse into the demand for the prohibited item on a black market within the system.

Otherwise this gameplay is not viable...as the only 'smuggling' anyone will do is to bring in 'found' items that are illegal.

 

[Johaunna]

Good point, smuggling is broken atm.

 

[Zplintz]

Smuggling is simply getting illegal goods passed the authority that considers them illegal.

I would agree that more mission types and more involved methods for sneaking those goods passed an authority would be good (rather than just stolen goods and a mad dash to avoid the scans).

Hopefully we will see more of this in future updates.

 

[ComradeFresco]

Seriously. Tried smuggling once. Here is how it went; Was at station X where battle weapons were legal AND cheap. Supply was high and the cost was 1000 credits below galaxy average. Loaded up with my weapons and smuggled them into a station where they were illegal and the price on the black market was 150 credits BELOW what i paid per unit.

Consider a real life paralel: i live in Canada. Our gun laws are stricter then the USA's. A gun that sells for 100 dollars in the U.S when smuggled into Canada will resell here for around $500.
Another example from my country: in certain native communities in the artic liqour is illegal. We have liqour smugglers who sell bottles of booze worth $60 for $600 in those communities.

 

[starjump]

Seriously. Tried smuggling once. Here is how it went; Was at station X where battle weapons were legal AND cheap. Supply was high and the cost was 1000 credits below galaxy average. Loaded up with my weapons and smuggled them into a station where they were illegal and the price on the black market was 150 credits BELOW what i paid per unit.

Consider a real life paralel: i live in Canada. Our gun laws are stricter then the USA's. A gun that sells for 100 dollars in the U.S when smuggled into Canada will resell here for around $500.
Another example from my country: in certain native communities in the artic liqour is illegal. We have liqour smugglers who sell bottles of booze worth $60 for $600 in those communities.

Indeed. They just need to get this right/sorted. Im sure thats the plan because at its current state it doesnt make sense half of the time.

 

[Roybe]

Smuggling is simply getting illegal goods passed the authority that considers them illegal.

I would agree that more mission types and more involved methods for sneaking those goods passed an authority would be good (rather than just stolen goods and a mad dash to avoid the scans).

Hopefully we will see more of this in future updates.

I disagree with having more methods to sneak things in. Who cares if you speed in or stealth? Each method works. No one is going to smuggle if it is not profitable. No one is buying tobacco legally, at a price, smuggling it into a station, and feel like they succeeded. They have lost hundreds on each ton. Fencing stolen items is what we do. Smuggling prohibited items is what we want to do, but cannot. Why is this set up this way? It does not make sense.

 

[ComradeFresco]

Seriously. This reminds me of being in SWG. Smugglers without a real means/motive to smuggle.

 

[Trigg]

I'm in full agreement that there needs to be a difference in the price paid for stolen goods, and those that are simply forbidden at that particular location - something that would actually make it worthwhile to smuggle those items in without being game breaking.

I'd also like to see more variation in the risk. A scan shouldn't be an automatic fine. 1 carton of illegal goods hidden in amongst 100t of perfectly innocent items should have a pretty good chance of escaping un-noticed, whereas a hold full of nothing but contraband should be spotted every time.

 

[orfeboy]

100% agree with OP. Even this basic dealing in illegal goods was possible in the original Elite. You could buy slaves and narcotics or weapons where they were legal and sell them in stations at a profit in stations where they were not. You did have to fight vipers on the way in which was all a bit daft but at least you could do it! You can't do it in Elite Dangerous.

If I buy battle weapons and go somewhere they are illegal they are simply not listed on the commodity market. They are considered stolen and then I can sell them for a pittance on the black market at a loss of 50%. Surely hard to come by items would have a high value? Hopefully this is something that will be sorted out in the game at some point (when the more important issues are dealt with first) because right now it is totally broken.

 

[Sloppy Pilot]

I am sorry but i did not understand why smuggling is not working.
I am currently smuggling slaves and selling them for 1500 profit and taking legal goods back for 1100 profit.
I have been milking this run for 1.5 months so i don't see the problem.
Sure it would nice if they paid more for the goods, i am after all selling on high demand.
If the profit was x 10 like someone mentions in the comment, it would break the economy, and i would be making 3.9 mill instead of 390 k when going A to B.

 

[Quineloe]

Smuggling is altogether different. True smuggling is buying contraband in a system where said contraband is legal and bringing those goods to a market where they are prohibited. In these places, the contraband SHOULD be highly desired and short on supply, which would make the exchange highly profitable..until the prohibition is lifted OR demand is sated..

Exactly. This is not reflected properly at all. The illegal goods have the same demand and price as if they were legal, and that is broken. In FE2, illegal goods were double the price at the black market, but you always ran the risk of getting caught unless you had established the name of the black market contact on the BB.

And in some sort of sudden stroke of progressive liberal political correctness, trading drugs in this game may never be profitable, so narcotics are 100 credits per ton. Say what? 1 ton of legal animal meat is worth as much as 10 tons of Cocaine?


FYI, Walter White made hundreds of millions in Breaking Bad, not five dollars and a free coffee token.


In FE2, Narcotics were a 600 credit commodity, it should be a 6k commodity here (as every price was multipled by 10 more or less anyways)

Seriously. Tried smuggling once. Here is how it went; Was at station X where battle weapons were legal AND cheap. Supply was high and the cost was 1000 credits below galaxy average. Loaded up with my weapons and smuggled them into a station where they were illegal and the price on the black market was 150 credits BELOW what i paid per unit.

Consider a real life paralel: i live in Canada. Our gun laws are stricter then the USA's. A gun that sells for 100 dollars in the U.S when smuggled into Canada will resell here for around $500.
Another example from my country: in certain native communities in the artic liqour is illegal. We have liqour smugglers who sell bottles of booze worth $60 for $600 in those communities.

Battle weapons are even worse than that. They are not demanded by default anywhere, so the only place to sell them at a profit are "Seeking Weapons" in war systems. However, these are not part of the Background simulator yet, so they need to be seeded by hand, and FD apparently is too busy to add them even to their GalNet advertisted hot zones.

 

[ComradeFresco]

I am sorry but i did not understand why smuggling is not working.
I am currently smuggling slaves and selling them for 1500 profit and taking legal goods back for 1100 profit.
I have been milking this run for 1.5 months so i don't see the problem.
Sure it would nice if they paid more for the goods, i am after all selling on high demand.
If the profit was x 10 like someone mentions in the comment, it would break the economy, and i would be making 3.9 mill instead of 390 k when going A to B.

its really simple:

in the majority of cases if a good is illegal it should sell for a higher price then where its legal. When you get situations where the sell price for narcotics is lower where they're illegal then legal then there is zero motive to smuggle.

My battle weapon smuggling example illustrates this. How are military-grade weapons not worth more where they're illegal then legal?

in Canada a assault-rifle costs a lot more then in Somalia.

in real life if the price of cocaine was cheaper in U.S.A then in Columbia you wouldn't have drug cartels.

 

[Quineloe]

I am sorry but i did not understand why smuggling is not working.
I am currently smuggling slaves and selling them for 1500 profit and taking legal goods back for 1100 profit.
I have been milking this run for 1.5 months so i don't see the problem.
Sure it would nice if they paid more for the goods, i am after all selling on high demand.
If the profit was x 10 like someone mentions in the comment, it would break the economy, and i would be making 3.9 mill instead of 390 k when going A to B.

share your route maybe?

Also, if slaves were legal in your target system, you'd still be getting 1500 cr/t. That's the problem. You found one route that is profitable, and it is still less profitable than some other routes people have found that are legal both ways.

 

[ComradeFresco]

Even if there are a few routes that don't have the described issue it doesn't justify so many routes doing so. To hammer one more real life example: if i bought a pound of cocaine in columbia i could travel almost anywhere in the world (aside from the neighbouring cocaine producing countries) and as long as i didn't get caught i'd be able to sell it for profit. You don't see people in real life going

"Oh yeah you can only move cocaine from Bogota to Miami. if you bring the cocaine to Los Angeles its not worth anything"

 

[Mohrgan]

Your first problem is trying to force definitions on a game. The Dev's feel that sneaking items into stations is Smuggling. Secondly, no goods listed as illegal can be sold on the Commodities Exchange. The system doesn't make this possible, ands it probably shouldn't.
:
There is a specific type of smuggling mission. Not just bring back from space a stolen item type. The more specific missions pay more than the other mission type, and it requires you find items that are both stolen and illegal at the station. That is the closest to the type of smuggling you define.
:
But, smuggling isn't something that has to mirror real life. Just accept the fact that in E: D smuggling is sneaking stolen/illegal items into a station to be sold on a Black Market, and you will feel much better

 

[Dionysusjones]

I am not an expert in illegal trading, however, there are 2 differing models that I am aware of. One is fencing. You bring illegal goods to someone, who buys it at a discount against the expected price, then taking the risk of reselling it marks up the price and receives the difference. This makes sense when we are turning in 'found articles'..black boxes, rare art, etc. We sneak in the stolen goods and receive a price for them...since the items were 'found' we have no money in the inventory so any price given is profit. 'Smuggling' stolen goods in plays correctly within the game...this is not really smuggling, this is dealing in stolen goods and fencing.

Smuggling is altogether different. True smuggling is buying contraband in a system where said contraband is legal and bringing those goods to a market where they are prohibited. In these places, the contraband SHOULD be highly desired and short on supply, which would make the exchange highly profitable..until the prohibition is lifted OR demand is sated.

This is why people are upset with the smuggling system in E: D. We fence everything, there is no reason to bring in prohibited items since they are treated as a fenced good. I have done this type of trade run 4 or 5 times and lost my shirt each time. I have tried to bring in battle weapons to Civl War stations, Tobacco into various stations, etc.

How can this be fixed? Either allow the sale of a good that is traded on the commodity market to be traded there (even in a prohibited market), openly showing the price and demand or allow traders some glimpse into the demand for the prohibited item on a black market within the system.

Otherwise this gameplay is not viable...as the only 'smuggling' anyone will do is to bring in 'found' items that are illegal.

Yup. This has been brought up several times by many different pilots who would enjoy this gameplay. As of yet I know of no reply worth reposting DEV wise.

I am sorry but i did not understand why smuggling is not working.
I am currently smuggling slaves and selling them for 1500 profit and taking legal goods back for 1100 profit.
I have been milking this run for 1.5 months so i don't see the problem.
Sure it would nice if they paid more for the goods, i am after all selling on high demand.
If the profit was x 10 like someone mentions in the comment, it would break the economy, and i would be making 3.9 mill instead of 390 k when going A to B.

Im curious of your numbers. Would you care to give us your Per Unit Profit? I think man are saying its not worth it b/c while taking on the added risk which is non existing with space trucking the reward ratio by no means makes up for the added danger.

ie. if people in mexico could sell tacos for $400 an ounce im sure i would have alot harder time finding marijuana

As a side note the devs are incredibly smart people. They are computer scientist fffs. This being said unfortunatly im pretty sure they are well aware that station to station smuggling is broken they just simply dont care, priority wise.

 

[Sloppy Pilot]

Well if you put it that way, i have to agree with you.
Problem is the balancing part.
There is no risk in smuggling currently so if you could sell the for silly money, no one would do anything but smuggling.
just like real life, if smuggling is low risk its low pay.

If frontier introduced smuggling/cargo carrying from a planet where you had to fight your way in and out (pve and pvp)
Where you need a top notch ship and escort to make it out alive (wings)
I would expect them to raise the profit.

I personally hope they introduce something like this, the pirates will love it if someone in a hauler and no escort tries it (easy money for them)
Traders would love it because huge profit and it would be less dull, but they would have to share some of the profit with their escort.
The pirates would have to gang up if they want those tasty lakons to spill some money

I would imagine a profit of that 5000 or more cr pr ton would be nice pay off that you would share with your escort.

 

[ComradeFresco]

Words don't change definitions just because its a game. Fencing is still fencing and smuggling is still smuggling. Language doesn't function that way. You can't go "Well murder in my game actually means rubbing a cats belly! So its not incorrect to call my cat-petting simulator a murder simulator". Same thing.

 

[Zplintz]

I disagree with having more methods to sneak things in. Who cares if you speed in or stealth? Each method works. No one is going to smuggle if it is not profitable. No one is buying tobacco legally, at a price, smuggling it into a station, and feel like they succeeded. They have lost hundreds on each ton. Fencing stolen items is what we do. Smuggling prohibited items is what we want to do, but cannot. Why is this set up this way? It does not make sense.

I was thinking about bribing npc contacts to make sure you don't get scanned, cargo bays that are shield (not guaranteed) and other mechanics that could be used to smuggle. I think tthe current method of using silent mode was somethinfething that Players worked out raterraterather than intended by FD.

I agree that prohibted goods should be part of the system though ( and the risk should way up against profits.

 

[ComradeFresco]

Don't even need silent mode. TBQH all you need to do is just blast through the mail-slot before being scanned. Now once out-of-ship stuff is added in then there's a huge arena for creative ways to smuggle if the effort got put in. (Can you imagine boarding parties and secret compartments? Don't hold your breath though)