Smuggling is broken because of wrong choice of illegal trading.

[Roybe]

Right. You are not interested in a discussion, what a Forum is for. You only accept agreement. You will find that sort of world view hard to sustain.
:
Smuggling IS the act of sneaking contraband past the Authorities. Done. The act of selling stolen goods is Fencing. Done. There is no reason the two can't coexist in this manner. Oh, except for players that want FD to make their efforts more profitable, rather than they should have to get better at those tasks. Message revived, 'make it easier for me'.

Yay, now we have a discussion!

The stations have a list of prohibited items attached to EACH and EVERY one of them? Why? To let traders know not to trade these items? What's the point and reason for wasting dev time making these lists? Or is it possible that these lists are there to let traders know there is a smuggling chance to bring these items in.

If the former, there's no need to list them, just leave them off the description. They won't be in the system list so there's no need to bring this to peoples attention.

It makes a lot of sense if the latter...and thus the point. The items that are prohibited do not drop in USS's. They are ALL purchaseable somewhere on the legal commodities market. If I purchase these, and SMUGGLE them in I lose money. So it's not a game play option.

Smuggling is currently not part of the game, fencing stolen goods is. Yes, you have to sneak things into a station, but the outcome is very different. This is what needs to be repaired, IMHO. Let people risk their ships to trade in prohibited materials, with the possibility of making profits. If you think this is working as intended, and are happy with the status quo, congrats.

it just seems to many of us, this was a part of the gameplay that isn't currently working/included and we want to see it in the game.

No amount of 'LTP noob' is going to make smuggling items profitable.

 

[Goilveig]

Smuggling is currently not part of the game, fencing stolen goods is. Yes, you have to sneak things into a station, but the outcome is very different. This is what needs to be repaired, IMHO. Let people risk their ships to trade in prohibited materials, with the possibility of making profits. If you think this is working as intended, and are happy with the status quo, congrats.

While I agree with you 100%, I'd recommend giving up the argument over what to call this. It's not going to get through, and really detracts from the key point - stolen and illegal goods should have different pricing schemes because in one, the buyer has legal options available, and in the other they don't.

It doesn't really matter whether you call it smuggling, fencing, or bunny hopping. The key point is, bunny hopping of stolen goods is working OK, but the bunny hopping of illegal goods is completely pointless under the current economic model.

 

[BobTheSlong]

Right. You are not interested in a discussion, what a Forum is for. You only accept agreement. You will find that sort of world view hard to sustain.
:
Smuggling IS the act of sneaking contraband past the Authorities. Done. The act of selling stolen goods is Fencing. Done. There is no reason the two can't coexist in this manner. Oh, except for players that want FD to make their efforts more profitable, rather than they should have to get better at those tasks. Message revived, 'make it easier for me'.

You are such a clown if you believe people are requesting easier smuggling. They're requesting a real smuggling system period.

Just because you can't tell the difference between selling salvage and smuggling contraband doesn't mean the rest of us can't.

 

[Sloppy Pilot]

Yup. This has been brought up several times by many different pilots who would enjoy this gameplay. As of yet I know of no reply worth reposting DEV wise.



Im curious of your numbers. Would you care to give us your Per Unit Profit? I think man are saying its not worth it b/c while taking on the added risk which is non existing with space trucking the reward ratio by no means makes up for the added danger.

ie. if people in mexico could sell tacos for $400 an ounce im sure i would have alot harder time finding marijuana

As a side note the devs are incredibly smart people. They are computer scientist fffs. This being said unfortunatly im pretty sure they are well aware that station to station smuggling is broken they just simply dont care, priority wise.

1 541 profit from slaves
1 140 from tobacco
2 681

average a bit over 5 min both ways
l am using a clipper with 240 cargo space.

unsure if i want to reveal where i found my trade route

 

[anikaiful]

Right. You are not interested in a discussion, what a Forum is for. You only accept agreement. You will find that sort of world view hard to sustain.

You're not discussing - that's the problem.

@OP - smuggling indeed requires tuning.

 

[Defacto]

1 541 profit from slaves
1 140 from tobacco
2 681

average a bit over 5 min both ways
l am using a clipper with 240 cargo space.

unsure if i want to reveal where i found my trade route

And you can profit just as much from selling the same stuff where it is legal instead. Might be a bit hard with slaves, but there are a lot of goods that yield similar profits. Some of those goods are not illegal anywhere.
When smuggling, you take the risk of being fined when passing by scans. I don't think the penalty to being detected is as high as it should be, and I think that the systems that are in play when evading detection should be deeper, but right now, there's no reason to smuggle, because even in the best of all cases, you'll just profit as much as legal trading, while at a much higher risk.

Goods that are demanded at a world where they are illegal should obviously have highly inflated prices, since it is very hard to supply this good to the population. Many traders would avoid smuggling because of the risk, and large traders might not be capable of evading detection if they wanted, which means that those who do smuggle illegal goods should expect a higher profit per tonne than legal goods. This does not happen now. At best, I've manage to sell goods at prices that equals the price you would get when selling high demand goods on the open market, and that's not a rare occurence.

 

[Goilveig]

1 541 profit from slaves
1 140 from tobacco
2 681

average a bit over 5 min both ways
l am using a clipper with 240 cargo space.

unsure if i want to reveal where i found my trade route

It's a decent route, but there are a lot of 2600-2800 cr/T routes out there for legal goods too, and no risk of being fined and taking the massive reputation hit for smuggling.

 

[CMDR Jenna Nord]

I would guess FD are quite aware of the current issue with smuggling, and i would guess its due for a change at some point.

The same goes i guess for those lose containers you find at USS. I'd guess at some point we will get some sort of ability to claim salvage rights or some sort of salvage licence.

FD may be aware of the issues but they don't care in any way, nor do I think that it will change.

Just look at the Design Document Archive and compare it with what we got ingame

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6562

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6276

 

[Quineloe]

:
There is a specific type of smuggling mission. Not just bring back from space a stolen item type. The more specific missions pay more than the other mission type, and it requires you find items that are both stolen and illegal at the station. That is the closest to the type of smuggling you define.
:
But, smuggling isn't something that has to mirror real life. Just accept the fact that in E: D smuggling is sneaking stolen/illegal items into a station to be sold on a Black Market, and you will feel much better

No, there isn't. "Goods must be stolen" clearly means no smuggling but piracy.

The only mission type that actually is smuggling is the Rank Ascension mission number 1.

A real smuggling mission would pick a random commodity from the list of illegal goods, and request it to be delivered to that station for credits. No stolen tag.

 

[Kayweg]

As it is now, you can just scoop from USS' to your hearts content, then fly to an outpost with a black market and sell it all off.

No scans, no risk....doesn't exactly sound like "smuggling" to me.

So the first step would be to either remove black markets from outposts, or have outposts being patrolled just the way stations are.

Only after something like that happens does it makes sense to discuss various smuggling methods.

 

[Quineloe]

I believe I get it, just fine. I just don't agree with you. I am all for more ways to play. I'm all for more interesting mechanics, but I find yours something of a dud. Mostly because of the semantic route you took. Justifying mechanics based on real life is worthless.

Yet in the last six weeks I've seen you shoot down every single suggestion.

 

[Dionysusjones]

1 541 profit from slaves
1 140 from tobacco
2 681

average a bit over 5 min both ways
l am using a clipper with 240 cargo space.

unsure if i want to reveal where i found my trade route

I wouldn't want you to reveal it mate! I would be curious as to how this profit margin lines up to regular space trucking. if 500+per unit is extremely rare or not happening at all then I will be the first to say that smuggling might not be as broken as we once thought.

It is entirely possible that you sir have found a (dealer) and (distributor) for lack of a better term and the rest of us smugglers are in fact "doing it wrong"

there are a lot of 2600-2800 cr/T routes out there for legal goods too, and no risk of being fined and taking the massive reputation hit for smuggling.

Bah yeah this is what i was afraid of :/

 

[Goilveig]

As it is now, you can just scoop from USS' to your hearts content, then fly to an outpost with a black market and sell it all off.

No scans, no risk....doesn't exactly sound like "smuggling" to me.

Selling stolen goods like the ones that come from USS is not really the problem; nobody's really complaining about that. The problem is selling illegal (not stolen) goods needs to be adjusted for the risk.

And I agree - selling at an outpost (where your main risk is being interdicted by cops before you get there) should give lower pay than smuggling into a high-security station.

 

[babelfisch]

I once bought battle weapons when I didn't knew they are prohibited at most stations. When I realized it I was afraid I made a mistake because of the low black market prices. But guess what? Made a huge profit in selling them (even got a rank progression with this deal). Can't tell you exactly where, but it was near Summerland.

So, while it is true that smuggling needs an overhaul, it works if you are lucky and find the right stations.

 

[Rhonda]

The strange thing is, there are already two tags attached to commodities in game to differentiate between "stolen" (e.g. found in space) goods and "illigal" (e.g. smuggled) goods. They are just treated equally and this seems to be out of the common sense understanding of fencing and smuggling.

In my home area I know a BlackMarket where I can sell Tobacco with 1k/t profit, but every other commodity I tried to sell there would have resulted in a loss. So it's hard to estimate if a (smuggling-)route would be profitable or not. Even more so due to the lack of a proper BM-screen with supply/demand/prices,...

 

[Kayweg]

Selling stolen goods like the ones that come from USS is not really the problem; nobody's really complaining about that. The problem is selling illegal (not stolen) goods needs to be adjusted for the risk.

And I agree - selling at an outpost (where your main risk is being interdicted by cops before you get there) should give lower pay than smuggling into a high-security station.

Yeah, sorry...missed the boat there a bit with the "illegal" goods, of course you'll have to hand those in where you got the mission.

 

[robdood]

FD may be aware of the issues but they don't care in any way, nor do I think that it will change.

Just look at the Design Document Archive and compare it with what we got ingame

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6562

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6276

Ah man, that makes me sad

 

[Astronaut Teemo]

Seriously. Tried smuggling once. Here is how it went; Was at station X where battle weapons were legal AND cheap. Supply was high and the cost was 1000 credits below galaxy average. Loaded up with my weapons and smuggled them into a station where they were illegal and the price on the black market was 150 credits BELOW what i paid per unit.

Consider a real life paralel: i live in Canada. Our gun laws are stricter then the USA's. A gun that sells for 100 dollars in the U.S when smuggled into Canada will resell here for around $500.
Another example from my country: in certain native communities in the artic liqour is illegal. We have liqour smugglers who sell bottles of booze worth $60 for $600 in those communities.

Battle weapons are a poor choice, no one really wants them. I like to dabble in slaves, non lethal weps, personal weps, tobacco, and the smuggling mission items, such as prototype tech, rare artwork, etc.

 

[Aircool]

On the import and export windows, where it lists illegal goods, there should be some sort of indicator to let you know if those illegal goods are in demand (although you'd need to work at getting that list. it shouldn't be visible to everyone). All because tobacco is illegal in one system, it doesn't mean that there's a demand for it. I agree that the Black Market should be more than just fencing stolen goods. However, I also think that you should only get to know if illegal goods are in demand if you get friendly with whatever system faction wants those goods; that sort of information should be hard to get, and not available from the trade pages.

 

[DYSEQTA]

Good point, smuggling is broken atm.

Everything except flying in space and shooting things is broken at the moment.