It's forum reverski!
So FDev have no backbone....figures
- Thread starter Madrax573
- Start date
- Status
It's forum reverski!
my 2cents...
was a good change.. shoulve left it...
let us ADAPT & EVOLVE to counter them...
if after 2 months, we CANT COUNTER THEM... add something to counter them (ELECTRONIC COUNTER MEASURES)
but, in short... If youre going to revert the change, take out reverb Experimental too... its OP... and countered the exact same way...
was a good change.. shoulve left it...
let us ADAPT & EVOLVE to counter them...
if after 2 months, we CANT COUNTER THEM... add something to counter them (ELECTRONIC COUNTER MEASURES)
but, in short... If youre going to revert the change, take out reverb Experimental too... its OP... and countered the exact same way...
I haven't expected any balance tweaks. Neither have any other players who engage in combat with ships that aren't NPCs. We've learned that lesson and have been mostly content to the status quo for at least a year now. If they don't touch balancing again, ever, I'll still launch the game and enjoy flying around shooting at stuff. The outcry here was that a major change was being introduced without any warning or feedback and was obvious to those it would effect that it was gamebreakingly bad. That feedback was then passed on in the patch notes thread as is appropriate, and in a pleasant surprise the feedback was acknowledged and the change rolled back. I'm honestly not sure why some of you are so angry about this; the process worked this time.
About seven days, probably less. They've already communicated that this will be patched out next week. Hopefully that saves you some crocodile tears, since resources are limited and tears don't grow on trees.
It was a change that nobody asked for. It was not a good change.
There is no counter. Perhaps you're confused about whether or not these made it into the live game, because they did and many of us had already tested them before the rollback was announced. Hit your target once with drag frags and they stopped dead in their tracks, completely helpless. Did you try them? ECM works on missiles only, not frags. And even then ECM is useless against spammed packhounds.
Reverb cascade is not "countered the same way". You deal with reverb by either not using SCBs (my preferred choice) or, you know, planning your SCB charges to coincide with evasive moves (engineering your SCBs for quicker charge enhances this). You cannot dodge a shotgun unless you always stay at least 3km away at all times.
The change to drag in and of itself wasn't all that bad. Slightly annoying to get hit by but not gamebreaking like some feared. Drag interrupting your boosts for a while but not enough to stop you from boosting entirely if you got the rhythm down? Sure, that shakes things up. Doesn't even stop people high-waking in a gank, 'cause really - 5 second effect plus 5 second cooldown in which you get off a boost, then another five second effect, you've high-waked already.
The problem with making balance changes is, as always, that no change exists in a bubble. Hitting someone you're trying to gank with drag munitions won't stop them getting away. Hitting them with drag munitions then using that 5-second window of slow-predictable flight to land a containment missile that they otherwise might have been able to evade if they were more mobile? Ouch. Now they're in trouble. Likewise, sneaking up on a corvette in a res and landing a frag or a missile on their shields at 2km as an opener? Not a huge biggie, they've still got time to clear the belt if they don't want to engage you. Following up that dragbomb with a salvo of torpedoes that they'd otherwise be able to boost and outrun? Now you've got yourself a devastating alpha-strike.
It's not the effect itself that's the problem, it's what the effect enables.
The problem with making balance changes is, as always, that no change exists in a bubble. Hitting someone you're trying to gank with drag munitions won't stop them getting away. Hitting them with drag munitions then using that 5-second window of slow-predictable flight to land a containment missile that they otherwise might have been able to evade if they were more mobile? Ouch. Now they're in trouble. Likewise, sneaking up on a corvette in a res and landing a frag or a missile on their shields at 2km as an opener? Not a huge biggie, they've still got time to clear the belt if they don't want to engage you. Following up that dragbomb with a salvo of torpedoes that they'd otherwise be able to boost and outrun? Now you've got yourself a devastating alpha-strike.
It's not the effect itself that's the problem, it's what the effect enables.
Just sparred with BigMaec this afternoon. His Conda has Drag seekers and my FDL had cannons and a PA. Know what I kept thinking drifting out from him because I couldn’t boost?
“Gee. I better bring my long range rail guns next time.”
If you’re thinking this change was about squashing the dominance of the FDL I’m not so sure. Here’s hoping our next bout is instructive.
“Gee. I better bring my long range rail guns next time.”
If you’re thinking this change was about squashing the dominance of the FDL I’m not so sure. Here’s hoping our next bout is instructive.
![[VR] M4st0d0n](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/182/182772.jpg?1569064854){kind=avatar}
Hey man. I dont really want to start a conversation You can dismiss my post because you kinda felt insulted but I frankly dont care what you feel or experienced or expect and what you feel other PVPers think. Keep it factual. It was a sheit show.
Also, corporate reading comprehension helps to avoid getting delusional and throw a tantrum. They aim to roll back drag next week. Count days now.
I dismissed it because it was just a flat out poor post.
so remove the EXP from Frags... simple... don't rip them out of the game completely... that's just dumb. Tweak, alter... don't just remove... that's poor design. anyone, yes.. IMO... ANYONE that thinks differently is just obtuse and unimaginative.
Thanks Phisto. Be sure to communicate this feeling to the devs too next time. Your feedback is much appreciated.
How about we support FDEV in pulling the Drag Munitions change and then encourage a conversation about ship to ship combat balance? We can talk about PvP, PvE, Engineers, and everything else that’s built up over the past couple years. I mean, if anything, the Drag Munitions fiasco has shown us a less than optimal way of improving the game.
Get some changes to permaboosting, overpowered shields, lack of variety in the meta - all kinds of fun!
Last edited:
Sure thing, buddy!
I'm not your buddy, pal.
Deleted member 38366
D
My 2 cents :
Given the existing Engineering imbalances and severe GvP problems that haunt this Game already since years , I can't - even with alot of fantasy and imagination - come up with any plausible reason for any Dev or Decisionmaker to create yet another Ganking tool.
That's seriously the absolutely last thing this Game needs.
The perma-joust-fest that ELITE often is? Krait Mk.II's perma-boosting with almost no capacitor draw for example?
Anything would work better than "oh look, another Ganker's dream come true... can't be that Victims still dare to escape even under Grom bomb fire, so let's cripple their Engines".
Stupid idea that was, sorry. Any stuff in that direction shouldn't even be considered at this stage of the Game.
PS.
Kudos to them to at least accept the error and rapidly remove it again. Good decision.
Given the existing Engineering imbalances and severe GvP problems that haunt this Game already since years , I can't - even with alot of fantasy and imagination - come up with any plausible reason for any Dev or Decisionmaker to create yet another Ganking tool.
That's seriously the absolutely last thing this Game needs.
The perma-joust-fest that ELITE often is? Krait Mk.II's perma-boosting with almost no capacitor draw for example?
- implement a Boost cooldown that operates independently from cap draw.
- or make boosting create a non-linear amount of heat, just like sustained low-capacitor Weapon fire produces a nonlinear amount of heat already
Anything would work better than "oh look, another Ganker's dream come true... can't be that Victims still dare to escape even under Grom bomb fire, so let's cripple their Engines".
Stupid idea that was, sorry. Any stuff in that direction shouldn't even be considered at this stage of the Game.
PS.
Kudos to them to at least accept the error and rapidly remove it again. Good decision.
Last edited by a moderator:
That's funny because I consider him my buddy and you my pal.
He's not your buddy, friend.
So...you don't want to start a conversation and you don't care what people replying to your, ahem, conversation opener think. May I ask why, then, you posted on a discussion forum? Or can you not say because the person holding a gun to your head forcing you to post won't let you?
If I had dismissed your post, I wouldn't have replied to it. What I also did was not respond with insults or threats but rather by stating facts as I know them. Your curious invention of my being "insulted" and "delusional" who was just here to "throw a tantrum" must be projection on your part.
- Status