So... the AI ships cheat?
- Thread starter blaze53
- Start date
AI has to cheat; it`s having to compete with the most complex organism in the Universe with just some cpu gigahertz of power and ram...
It has to cheat. The trick is in making it LOOK like it isn`t cheating.
However, if you`re going to analyse everything it does closely, you`ll see it`s cheating.
It has to cheat. The trick is in making it LOOK like it isn`t cheating.
However, if you`re going to analyse everything it does closely, you`ll see it`s cheating.
Again: they dont cheat with heatsinks, chaffs and SCB. You dont even need to be able to count to very high numbers to check it yourself.
Well, there is this one NPC in Dvorsi I keep seeing in the RES and every time she's winged up with someone different.
So... yeah, I think they cheat. Or maybe she just has a lot of friends, who knows...
Last edited:
But it's true. The AI cheat based on the rules that we are forced to abide by, and it creates a huge imbalance in the game. An AI Eagle is not the same as a player Eagle.
The AI has two pretty significant advantages over most players: preternatural finesse with PIP management and thruster control. NPC's can instantaneously redistribute PIP's for whatever they need. Whether this is keeping the WEP capacitor topped up so rails produce less heat or just enough in engines to outmaneuver you, they can do it.
Secondly, they use their thrusters all the time. When people see the AI making maneuvers that seem impossible, they aren't using FA-OFF. They're keeping their throttle in the blue zone, pitching with the right speed, firing vertical thrusters, etc. All at the same time, all with just the right number of PIP's in ENG.
The only "cheats" that I've seen have to do with the instancing/spawning mechanics. That's what allows ships to interdict you while taking no damage, dropping in while they were 1000 ls away, etc. A glitch in this system is what probably allows trader NPC's to jump away instantly. The game loaded the NPC into normal space while forgetting some of the data that it should carryover from SC, like an FSD cool down. But these aren't cheats in the AI code, they're just a limitation of the game mechanics.
Secondly, they use their thrusters all the time. When people see the AI making maneuvers that seem impossible, they aren't using FA-OFF. They're keeping their throttle in the blue zone, pitching with the right speed, firing vertical thrusters, etc. All at the same time, all with just the right number of PIP's in ENG.
The only "cheats" that I've seen have to do with the instancing/spawning mechanics. That's what allows ships to interdict you while taking no damage, dropping in while they were 1000 ls away, etc. A glitch in this system is what probably allows trader NPC's to jump away instantly. The game loaded the NPC into normal space while forgetting some of the data that it should carryover from SC, like an FSD cool down. But these aren't cheats in the AI code, they're just a limitation of the game mechanics.
Then you are admirable for seeing that.
Low skilled NPCS have errors?
There is also a random derp- ness value.
The whirling asps of 2.0 come to mind.
Well there's our problem...you feel there is "cheating"? Why do people enjoy weighing their opinion in on subjects that are black/white? Either they do break rules or they do not.
Strangely enough, the CMDRs that actually take the time to test aspects such as ammo levels are the ones here saying that they do not break the rules.
In any case there are a number of discrepancies between AI and human ability - that much is a given - but as in the thread I referenced above, the vast majority of these discrepancies work in favour of the CMDR.
Overly capable thruster and pip management? Lulz. Sure, let's even all this out. So how about we slow their reactions a little bit based on their rank, and then let them use FA Off - competently at high ranks - target your subsystems, have fully engineered ships, be able to use experimental effects...
This may have been a bug, but certainly felt like cheating to me... Earlier today I way in a fight with an NPC which must've been using turrets because it was shooting directly backwards. This in itself was fine, but was continuously firing whilst firing up it's FSD, right up to the point of warping out.
I'm pretty sure I can't start my FSD whilst my hardpoints are out.
I'm pretty sure I can't start my FSD whilst my hardpoints are out.
Indeed, in fact I explicitly recommend to players who want to get good at combat to watch how NPCs fly on their thrusters and learn to do the same. The combination of drifts, strafes, and boosts that they do are extremely effective, and you can learn them.
1) Railgun sniping is actually easier at long ranges due to the tiny auto-correct fixed weapons have. Seeker missiles have no damage drop-off at all, AFAIK, most other weapons do damage to some extent up to 3k away, with kinetics often up to 4k away. This without using mods. LR mods can see the falloff range be effectively removed altogether.
2) NPCs use heatsinks, and generally have less rails than human-railships.
3) During a pass missiles keep lock for a bit, I often shoot missiles at targets that are already behind me. The missiles go straight ahead then curve towards the target
4) PAs shooting at odd angles is weird, I've seen it too. Attributed it to lag, but not sure.
Also, be warned that this topic will be swarmed by people who will say NPCs always cheat in every form and such and so on, these are generally people who;ve been complaining about ED for a very long time and just enjoy whining. I suggest you give more creedance to posts who provide actual info.
Yep, the self same "instant gratification" RES farmers who keep demanding the AI get nerfed, 'cause they hate anything that hurts their "credits per hour" record. They're trying to turn Elite: Dangerous into Elite: Farmville.
- - - Updated - - -
Actually, they kind of can in this game. Anarchy Systems, Low Sec Systems.....as well as systems at War or in Lockdown....should all have increasing levels of AI difficulty when compared to more hi-sec systems.
MoM has proven she can make extremely competent AI that still work within the same rules as humans, but she keeps getting held back for fear of upsetting the RES farmer crowd.
I can already take on two cutters and a bunch of small ships in CZ's in my lone Vulture - and I'm not even all that good. Seriously, the NPC's need to have something that keeps them semi competitive.
I've only lost one ship in battle this year - and that's because I was trying to see if I could break a ceasefire by taking out a Viper in the middle of the AI cloud. Seems my Vulture can't quite survive 12 odd enemy AI all firing at me at once...
Also, ceasefire not broken. If anyone knows who to un-ceasefire a ceasefire, please let me know... I have a combat rank to achieve for heavens sake! May have to go back to a Fed syste, at least when they say they are oging to have a war, they go through with it!
Honestly, I just want the beta 4 AI from Beta 2.1 (from memory). That was PROPERLY good AI...
Z...
Last edited:
Oh yeah, the beta 4 AI. That was the first time in almost 18 months of playing that I felt genuinely SCARED to take on an AI opponent. Even the Beta 5 was still pretty decent. Then the salty RES farmers had a collective whinge about NPC's fighting back.....and we ended up stuck with something far less grand. I keep hoping MoM will sneakily start adding back the Beta 4 AI behind our backs
.
Aside from odd instances with 'orphaned' fighters and the oddly tanky craft I haven't seen too much to even remotely call cheating.
However, I have seen that with multiple CMDRs / SLFs in a CZ the AI seem to mellow out in a very odd fasion. Either that or we've established a groove.
Though, what's with the Odd Type 9s? i used to joke about building one for something other than trading. I guess Frontier was tired of the quips.
However, I have seen that with multiple CMDRs / SLFs in a CZ the AI seem to mellow out in a very odd fasion. Either that or we've established a groove.
Though, what's with the Odd Type 9s? i used to joke about building one for something other than trading. I guess Frontier was tired of the quips.