Engineers So What is the Point ?

You are critcising the game over a model of gameplay utilised by the gameplayer. It is not encouraged by the game. In fact, they've said they wished that players would explore missions, places and roles a lot more, and not just grind to get a "Corvette". If you approach Elite with an ideology you must "beat" X, then you'll get bored.

It's applying the model for a book-ended game (an RPG where there is an end goal to work to prepare for) with an open-ended immersion world, where you do what you enjoy over a long duration, with development drops to expand and improve the world naturally (while repairing problems that have popped up from feedback). You grind in this world, you suffer really. This is a long term game, a Corvette should really be the result of a couple of years doing different things, accruing money and reputation as you fight, explore, and trade. People rush to get a Corvette (some Robigo'd their days to do it) and end up with a Corvette, but still in an open world. There's no end-game.

Each to how they play, but applying the wrong gameplay to the wrong game will frustrate. Adapt how you play and the game will either be enriched, or you will know its the wrong game for you.

The behavior of the players is just natural logical behavior, if the game was designed differently, the behavior would be different. Its Frontier at fault for not understanding how humans think, not the fault of humans for being what they are. Is not like the players of Elite are some obscure breed of aliens that behave in mysterious ways.

Its all a matter of a balance between work vs reward.

Its a rule of nature that the path of least resistance will be taken, specially when the reward is a long term one that requires hundreds or thousands of hours.
If a method to reach it is 10 times slower, people are not gonna bother with it, specially when its also harder.
If the work required is too high, and the reward is too low, people are just not gonna bother with it, and find that some other game could offer them much more satisfaction instead.

And yes, the rewards are bigger ships and higher stats for those ships, because this game has nothing else to strive for. The player actions don't really matter and act of killing procedurally generated enemies in itself is not enough engagement to justify playing the game. If its you trying to tell people to approach the game with a different mentality, instead of the game naturally evoking that mentality out of them, then its the game at fault. A game should not be judged based on what it could be, but by what it is.

Let me put an example of what could be rewarding gameplay or a reason to play for the sake of playing that is not just earning credits, instead of what we have now:
Lets say you want to rank up in the Empire, right now, you have to do 200 random missions, and then a short mission to advance in the navy. That is just grinding, nobody thinks they are doing anything meaningful there, because its a computer generating content, so it feels less real.
Now, Imagine if to advance in the navy, you take a VERY long mission with 50 steps along the way, with a carefully crafted story, that links you as the player to the world itself. You get to know characters, get to like them, get to hate them, get emotionally invested in it, you get unique gear out of it, and swag to decorate your ship, both externally and internally, to remind you of what you did.

Right now, do you feel anything when you destroy a random NPC? or when a random system security dies? Do you remember their names? Do you go to sleep thinking about those characters? No. You go to sleep thinking how awesome your ship will be, and how awesome this game could be, but nothing else.
 
How does it feel to spend so much time crafting a response... and not actually say anything?



It's sad you actually think this. It's sad you spend so much time on the forum, and so little enjoying the game.

Why don't you take off?

Not sure how "cutting" that's intended to be....

I tried to make a valid considered point, and explain my thoughts... All I can do. If you don't agree fine. If you think The Engineers and their surrounding mechanics are a good use of development time, and introduce interesting new game play, great.
 
I want my Vulture to handle better and shoot lasers of heat death forever, or something. I won't be giving anything bigger than that the combat treatment (except probably the FDL once I buy it) anytime soon because of how long it would take, but I just like having my ship fly a little better. That's also the reason why I want to get to Palin, so I can give my Anaconda the handling treatment and maybe make it fun to fly while exploring.
Which brings me to reason 2: I love exploring. I got my Asp to a 45ly jumprange already, and I can get it to 48 (from ~33). And with the system map loading up really fast now compared to before, I can't wait to get back out in the void to see what all is there. And that's not even mentioning how cool the thargoids (or something else?) would be to encounter way beyond Sagittarius A*. In my Asp with infinite railguns, or in my generally overpowered Conda that can still jump 30-40ly. I seriously can't wait for what's to come in this game. If they make it easier to get the materials, that is. But it's still fun and diverse (except when scanning wakes...).
 
When we first started seeing examples of what the mods are, I asked myself this question and to be honest, I can not answer it. I can not see any point except possibly for the PvP league.

If NPC's have mods in abundance then we need to have them. If they don't then they are potentially cannon fodder.

If we NEED to have them then I suspect we have a problem. I believe that unless getting mods is extremely easy (and therefore may as well have been available in outfitting) then long term, people are going to be really turned off from getting them at all except maybe the first few times. Each time you upgrade your ship you will need to get the mods again unless the module class is the same in the new ship. A super modded pulse on your Asp's small points is of little use in an FDL. If you want to play in that cobra you kept for old times sake, you'll need to mod it out first. This will be particularly annoying for those raising through the ranks from the start of the game. I know I won't do it much and I suspect most people will get bored of it.

I see no long term future for the engineers and the only way out is to nerf their best mods from say a 50% boost to less than 10% making them pretty much irrelevant.
 
When we first started seeing examples of what the mods are, I asked myself this question and to be honest, I can not answer it. I can not see any point except possibly for the PvP league.

If NPC's have mods in abundance then we need to have them. If they don't then they are potentially cannon fodder.

If we NEED to have them then I suspect we have a problem. I believe that unless getting mods is extremely easy (and therefore may as well have been available in outfitting) then long term, people are going to be really turned off from getting them at all except maybe the first few times. Each time you upgrade your ship you will need to get the mods again unless the module class is the same in the new ship. A super modded pulse on your Asp's small points is of little use in an FDL. If you want to play in that cobra you kept for old times sake, you'll need to mod it out first. This will be particularly annoying for those raising through the ranks from the start of the game. I know I won't do it much and I suspect most people will get bored of it.

I see no long term future for the engineers and the only way out is to nerf their best mods from say a 50% boost to less than 10% making them pretty much irrelevant.

If we "need" mods, then we could be headed for tricky times I'd suggest. ie: If crafting leads to significantly advantageous improvements, then surely there's the risk of:-
a) They'll become a must have surely?
b) What will it mean balancing in a number of directions. eg: 1.6 users.

And if they're instead just a "nice to have" (which surely should be the idea) and offer some variety etc, then why so much faff to get them? ie: All the design/development of the Engineers themselves, and all the mechanics to earn the craft, when they could have been offered in stations via a far simpler and less development heavy approach? (ie: Why implement the need for wake scanning?)
 
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THere are a lot of possible reasons.

You might want better weapons.
You might want better shields.
You might want lighter gear.
You might want sturdier gear.
You might want faster engines.
etc.....


Yes, but I only have need for those things AFTER they implement some meaningfull forms of PvP to use them in.... my point...
 
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