So you want to play in Open, eh?

[ianw]

If you boosted away then you tried to run, what did you think would happen?

Maybe you'd get away - you know leave the system - as per the message that says leave the system or die - not just die anyway?

The problem Code have has become clearer recently.

What they say the'll do doesn't match what they actually do.

They speak with forked tongue!

(yeah I know - they're "pirates" so we should expect that).

 

[Cody]

<guffaws at OP> No comment, of course!

 

[Roberto]

Yep, the message could just have been "Stop having fun!", or simply "Die!" Both more honest and efficient.

 

[Jockey79]

Aye, there is; but the group works on a basis of trust. They expect players to act their age and adhere to the rules of the group.
IIRC, any non-sanctioned PvP (that is, any PvP where one party is against it) can be reported to the group admins and they'll do their thing to have the offender removed from the group. They actively enforce the PvE rule.

There is no "they" - only the group creator can enforce any rules - so Mobius is forced into an unpaid job.
How would you like to be forced into having to administer a PvP group and authorize every PvP encounter?

Also, the trust method does not work - proven by CODE, joining the PvE group then going on PvP killing sprees.
So the whole system is broken.

That forces the only option of a real PvE Mode being added. As CODE cannot be trusted to act like grown ups and leave others alone to play.

 

[OamodSias]

That is a private group - not an official in game mode.

There is a difference.

PvE Mode is PvE Mode.

Also, Mobius is a player like you - who bought the game, like you - why should he be forced into an unpaid GM role? Why should he be forced into sitting for hours accepting requests to the group.
And what happens if he quits ?

Nobody forced him to do anything. He did it because he wanted to do it.
Then someone else will take over.

The game needs a real Open PvE mode, for those who do not want PvP.

This we can agree on.

 

[KillaALF]

Nope, absolutely no interest in playing open, thanks for asking.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Spoiler

The sole reason CODE (or any other Group as well as individuals) were successful :

The game is fully optimized towards them with no balance nor Security existent anywhere outside the NoFire zone of a Station (remember even there noone was safe until very recently).
No later than ~7.5km from any Station - all rules and laws end. They exist but there's literally nothing to enforce them, hence they're meaningless.

It's very clear CODE (and the few others) fully know how to "game" the System, anyone can. They know it - we know it.

The problem isn't even CODE (or any other Gankers/Griefers) - it's Frontier's Design Decision to keep severe crimes entirely inconsequential and ensure there's no means of countering or balancing it. Even those tiny possibilities that could make a little difference were castrated and intentionally rendered ineffective. The game is rigged. The table is tilted.

Go to the Forum and warn other Traders of certain CMDRs? Can't do that, Name&Shame policy.
Have all my Combat Ships transported to a nearby Station so I have at least an Option to try to react (if 90 Minutes ETA can still count as "reactive")? Can't do that - takes me half an eternity to shuttle my Ships one by one over 150LY distance.
Can I wing up with the (otherwise helpless) System Security to lead a Wing w/ their NPCs into the right place and put them where they are needed? No, can't do that.
Can I sign up at any CG as a dedicated Fighter Escort and get Crime locations - so at least I know where the action is at? No, can't do that.
Can I act effectively when my FPS counter displays anything between 14 and 2 (!) fps in SuperCruise due to some bug hogging down my CPU? *lol* Not even gonna try.
Can I even reliably transmit my honest Escort intentions to that Type-9 CMDR 1000Ls in front of me, so he doesn't panic-drops in fear I could be a bad guy? No, can't do that.
Can I get at least a basic IFF on who is even a CG participant (no crimes committed against any other CG participant) to know who is who - and give Traders the chance to wing up with the right guys? No, can't have that. Everbody remains a stranger.
Well, can I... NO, can't do that.
Hum, how about... NO, can't do that.
Now, why don't we... NO, you can't to ANY of that.

The list goes on and on.
And with the background that all this is "working as intended" and not by accident, the case is already closed IMHO.

So.... CODE itself isn't the problem at hand.
Actually, even the worst Ganker crowds could provide the best playing grounds for the oldest Gameplay idea in the world - the old Good vs. Bad fight. Perfect scenario - IF things were implemented and balanced right.

BUT - with the table to heavily tilted and it all being intentionally so... No point.
It's Frontiers toxic Design Decisions, apparent lack of MMO designing experience, paired with tons of oversight, superficial implementations and complete lack of common sense that lead us all to where we are.

Things sure would be a whole lot different if they made any sense and everything was properly put in its place, with the needed attention to Detail on System Security and dynamic/effective response.
We simply don't have any of that and the game is still marching into that direction and no reversal in sight.

-----------------------
But all in all - it matches the overall way things are going. Factions in the Game? All lawless entities since V1.3. Laws? Exist - but aren't enforced. Capital Crime Murder? Doens't exist, lifes are dirt cheap in this anarchic, chaotic and lawless Universe. Stuff that still makes at least some sense? Rare goods. Right now I'd bet there's more Unknown Artifacts in the game right now than game elements that truly make sense.

And into that dystopian/Mad-Max type bizarro-Universe Frontier has created - groups like CODE basically fit right in.
Open Play is their world, I don't blame them for doing their thing there.

Remember - this is ELITE : Toxic, no reasons needed, no rules, no laws, no consequences, no enforcement, no balance needed, nothing needs to make any sense, anywhere nor anytime.
Cooperation is highly discouraged (but possible within extremely tight limitations and significant risks as stated above) - Non-Cooperative Gameplay (pewpew) is highly encouraged and everything in Open Play (and even the Forum rules here) is geared towards it.
Go figure.

Everything as predicted and it only takes a tiny bit common sense to predict the outcome of such a dysfunctional, flawed, lawless and chaotic "Civilization".
=================================
TL : DR Version
CODE isn't the problem. Technically, not even Frontier is the problem (although they've designed and caused it).

Put in an Image, IMHO this description fits best (mainly directed @ FDev and only to a lesser extent towards Ganker Groups doing their thing) :
View attachment 61594

Excellent points all. I made some similar points in this post in another thread, basically saying the same thing, that the game mechanics are heavily imbalanced towards miscreants, and not in a good way.

 

[andyraptor]

We sorta have that it's called Mobius...ahem group mode.

And of course. .. you should mention that every single CMDR can make a private group via the launcher. .. so groups of friends can play together..

Interestingly. .. making or friends will make your chances of getting into a instance together more likely...

Friending a member of the master gankers group ... just serves them ... just put every one of them that you encounter on your ban list.

 

[Jockey79]

Then someone else will take over.

You cannot pass ownership of a private group - if Mobius quits, his group can no longer take new members and no one can kick griefers.
The group dies off as it would have to be remade under someone elses name.

And it is still not a PvE mode - as all private groups have PvP turned on, no way to avoid it. Not even in a private group.

 

[Jesse Blue]

"So you want to play in Opeeeeeeeeen, come on let's go and plaaaaaaaaay..."

Actually, I'm imagining something more like this...

 

[Bjorna]

Nonya and spoon, lonewarrior and others have already made a much better counterpoint than I ever could but... i just feel the need to respond to a few things, in case there are people reading the thread taking your nonsense at face value...

"I could go on and on with things about this game that 99% of you didn't know existed until you read this post but I digress. The problem isn't with what Code was able to successfully achieve utilizing their knowledge and skill of in-game mechanics, coordination, and lines of communication, it's with what you don't know about the game you're playing because the vast majority of you are either playing in solo/private groups and have been so safe in there that you haven't felt the need to practice combat against other players or to really understand how this game works."

Now, this is coming from a terrible pvp pilot (me, that is), but I did not see ONE GOOD PVP PILOT among you CODE guys. Do you have as a recruitment policy to only accept terrible pilots? Maybe you do have good pilots, but I sure didn't see any, mostly a bunch of scb spamming cowards who couldn't hit a barn from the inside.... now, the one time I did see you yourself, Nonya, you were in a rail-cobra which is at least an acceptable choice for a decent pilot.... but you were so busy hugging the medium pad that I have no idea if you can hit with those railguns:

"I guess the bottom line is we need you folks to get better at this because right now while your forum posts may be entertaining to read online, in-game you're boring us and we need you to start creating your own in-game content on-the-fly like we do." Yeah... I guess it must be boring frantically hugging the pad while being rammed to death instead of coming out and fighting

As for coordination, are you kidding me? If you were on team-speak, you failed miserably at coordinating anything resembling a blockade. A lot may be due to instancing, but I spent the better part of 30 minutes in the same instance with a wing of your guys playing hide and seek with my cobra. Also, it was cute when one of them accused me of combat logging... he said he would report me, wonder what will come of that, hopefully there are sanctions in place for falsely reporting people?

Also, I'd tone down my arrogance and preaching tone A LOT if I were you. Previously, I had some grudging respect for CODE, after all, piracy makes the galaxy more interesting. However, after this, you are greifers and terrorists, no more. Furthermore, members of your group openly stated that they used cheats (wether joking or not, couldn't really tell), but even if that was just a joke, you certainly mis-used the mechanics of the game by going solo to come in and repair. Fine, it's a mechanic of the game that is open to be used, but personally I have never even started the game in solo.

It was kinda funny how as soon as anyone started fighting back against you, you just melted away... even when you had the numerical advantage. So much for the highly coordinated and trained for battle CODE. In short people, don't bother trying to fight CODE, they seem to be more interested in ganking traders.

Anyway... I hear that CODE keeps a "shoot-on-sight" list. So do I, and other people. Only... my list is not exactly a "shoot-on-sight" list, even if it can be at times. It's more of a "These guys like to prevent others from having fun by exploiting broken game mechanics"-list. If I see you, I may attack you... I may not. It's to bad that there is no way to track other players (no, I won't accept friend requests from people I don't like. There should be an enemy list). I'm a small minded person, and if you CODE get your enjoyment from harrasing other people, I'd like nothing better than to do my best to see that you get no enjoyment from that.

You won't always have a wing at your back, CODE members, and after all... it is a dangerous galaxy out there.

 

[Lupis]

You cannot pass ownership of a private group - if Mobius quits, his group can no longer take new members and no one can kick griefers.
The group dies off as it would have to be remade under someone elses name.

And it is still not a PvE mode - as all private groups have PvP turned on, no way to avoid it. Not even in a private group.

I think he "can" pass the role onto any second in command?

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

I wonder if CODE would still be chest beating if the game had real server support and allowed a great number of players per instance?

My felling is they would have been destroyed and even hounded out of the system thus showing they are small and of no significance!

As others have said though, the open game is designed for their type of play, small instances so small groups can feel powerful in their own minds.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Just one question: if code is so experienced and skilled, if the coordination is so amazing and the knowledge of mechanics unheard of, why did the blockade fail so miserably?

 

[andyraptor]

You cannot pass ownership of a private group - if Mobius quits, his group can no longer take new members and no one can kick griefers.
The group dies off as it would have to be remade under someone elses name.

And it is still not a PvE mode - as all private groups have PvP turned on, no way to avoid it. Not even in a private group.

Technically correct. .. but if you have him on your friends list or even spoken to him on TS ... you will know that it's unlikely for a long time yet... so less scaremongering please

ty

 

[Lupis]

I wonder if CODE would still be chest beating if the game had real server support and allowed a great number of players per instance?

My felling is they would have been destroyed and even hounded out of the system thus showing they are small and of no significance!

As others have said though, the open game is designed for their type of play, small instances so small groups can feel powerful in their own minds.

Thing is they are known for running away when the odds are slight not in their favour and the fact that they went to Hutton with the intent to kills show's how petty they are. Empire players have a more legitimate reason to blockade, not some pirate group made because the CG uses a commodity that's worthless.

 

[Space Junky]

Quick question.. Am not really into this whole role playing thing, not even sure what CODE stands for.. Is there not an organized group that opposes them? Or even a group of players that protect cargo ships? We have the fuel rats, shouldn't someone start a group in Open providing organised protection for these kind of events?

The problem isn't a lack of other orgs. The issue is instancing and how broken it is in this game. one group can completely block out other groups because of the cap. There are no real massive group battles in this game, which is a shame, but this is why they were able to gank at will. It wasn't because of skill or "organization". It's just numbers in the end and exploiting a broken mechanic.

 

[OamodSias]

You cannot pass ownership of a private group

Unless the feature has been removed, yes, you can. (" Pass their leadership and thus all these options to someone else in the group ") *
In addition, if he leaves the group, ownership passes to the oldest member in the group (" i.e. the first player to accept an invite into the group that is still present ") *

It's a PvE mode insofar as the player-base is concerned. We treat it as a PvE environment; we adhere to the rules of the group. For us, it is PvE. Is it full on PvE with absolutely no ability to attack another player? No. But is the PvE rule enforced? Yes. For all intents and purposes, it is a PvE environment. People who don't adhere to this rule, are removed.


* https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6300

 

[bootsam]

The OP's post also depends upon which metric you use to define 'successful'. Their measure is skewed to their own perception, whilst others are skewed to their experience. As far as my own experience demonstrated to me, they failed completely in their aims. Hutton got the scrap. As far as I can tell they were only successful in alienating people further. All in all its 2M tons to nil for the community.

BTW, how does one tell a CODE member from another CMDR? Is there a defined CMDR list they provide to inform others as to their allegiances? If membership is hidden then that tells me one thing, if it is freely available then fair play to them in that respect. Note: I have no desire to hunt CODE but it would be nice to know which CMDR I could say o7 to without having to hover over my hardpoints.

 

[lonewarrior]

Nonya and spoon, lonewarrior and others have already made a much better counterpoint than I ever could but... i just feel the need to respond to a few things, in case there are people reading the thread taking your nonsense at face value...

"I could go on and on with things about this game that 99% of you didn't know existed until you read this post but I digress. The problem isn't with what Code was able to successfully achieve utilizing their knowledge and skill of in-game mechanics, coordination, and lines of communication, it's with what you don't know about the game you're playing because the vast majority of you are either playing in solo/private groups and have been so safe in there that you haven't felt the need to practice combat against other players or to really understand how this game works."

Now, this is coming from a terrible pvp pilot (me, that is), but I did not see ONE GOOD PVP PILOT among you CODE guys. Do you have as a recruitment policy to only accept terrible pilots? Maybe you do have good pilots, but I sure didn't see any, mostly a bunch of scb spamming cowards who couldn't hit a barn from the inside.... now, the one time I did see you yourself, Nonya, you were in a rail-cobra which is at least an acceptable choice for a decent pilot.... but you were so busy hugging the medium pad that I have no idea if you can hit with those railguns:

"I guess the bottom line is we need you folks to get better at this because right now while your forum posts may be entertaining to read online, in-game you're boring us and we need you to start creating your own in-game content on-the-fly like we do." Yeah... I guess it must be boring frantically hugging the pad while being rammed to death instead of coming out and fighting

As for coordination, are you kidding me? If you were on team-speak, you failed miserably at coordinating anything resembling a blockade. A lot may be due to instancing, but I spent the better part of 30 minutes in the same instance with a wing of your guys playing hide and seek with my cobra. Also, it was cute when one of them accused me of combat logging... he said he would report me, wonder what will come of that, hopefully there are sanctions in place for falsely reporting people?

Also, I'd tone down my arrogance and preaching tone A LOT if I were you. Previously, I had some grudging respect for CODE, after all, piracy makes the galaxy more interesting. However, after this, you are greifers and terrorists, no more. Furthermore, members of your group openly stated that they used cheats (wether joking or not, couldn't really tell), but even if that was just a joke, you certainly mis-used the mechanics of the game by going solo to come in and repair. Fine, it's a mechanic of the game that is open to be used, but personally I have never even started the game in solo.

It was kinda funny how as soon as anyone started fighting back against you, you just melted away... even when you had the numerical advantage. So much for the highly coordinated and trained for battle CODE. In short people, don't bother trying to fight CODE, they seem to be more interested in ganking traders.

Anyway... I hear that CODE keeps a "shoot-on-sight" list. So do I, and other people. Only... my list is not exactly a "shoot-on-sight" list, even if it can be at times. It's more of a "These guys like to prevent others from having fun by exploiting broken game mechanics"-list. If I see you, I may attack you... I may not. It's to bad that there is no way to track other players (no, I won't accept friend requests from people I don't like. There should be an enemy list). I'm a small minded person, and if you CODE get your enjoyment from harrasing other people, I'd like nothing better than to do my best to see that you get no enjoyment from that.

You won't always have a wing at your back, CODE members, and after all... it is a dangerous galaxy out there.

I don't want to start a flame war but I can back up the fact that a few people have told me recently that on the live stream one code member slipped up and admitted he had cheats on and was told to shut up because they were live
-
The only CODE member to beat me was Majinvash a few months ago, that's not for naming and shaming purposes, he beat me once fair and square, all the others.....didn't fair so well, except that one time you exploited to beat me but let's not bring that back up shall we, because I'd be happy to go through my old posts and link all the CODE members who admitted openly to using exploits (not naming and shaming, they admitted it on the forums)
-
At one point CODE brought something new and exciting to the game, now they have just become griefers