So you want to play in Open, eh?

[Yiggy]

My shielded T6 dropped into Hutton orbital on Monday around 9 PM PST from an empty SC. Boosted to the station. All pads full. Attacked without warning near station. Shields stripped in about 5 seconds by multiple ships. Shield recharge useless because of speed and severity of assault. Ship destroyed.


Now I really don't mind being interdicted/killed if you have a reason. But mindless and purposeless killing because "you were bored" doesn't really cut it.

 

[Krieger]

Note to all considering responding - please remain civil. Failure to do so will result in thread closure for review and possible infractions.

Why allow responses to such obvious flamebait in the first place?

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

Yep, that's the crux, CODE seem to want to influence and control Frontier in the same way that CIG became, in part at least, a puppet to the groups in EVE, lets hope Frontier have more backbone.

All developers I know fall into the "group" trap. It's just to attractive to use the easy looking road by listening to the suggestions of a few player groups than to listen to the whole community. It usually results in failure.

 

[Khelder]

I guess the bottom line is we need you folks to get better at this because right now while your forum posts may be entertaining to read online, in-game you're boring us and we need you to start creating your own in-game content on-the-fly like we do. FDEV does not always have to create it. Look at those wacky races (which look like fun by the way) around stations, or out to Sag A. Where are the trade competitions? CZ Combat competitions (CQC does NOT count, sorry Xbox players)? Mining competitions (mine this much X from this exact RES in X amount of time)? Where are the trade wars? (heh, TradeWars2002 notwithstanding....)

Too many pages in between and I'm not going to read them all. So I'm really sorry if I repeat something someone has already said.

First, I don't like your attitude and I don't like CODE. Neither do a lot of other commanders it seems (for various reasons). But I think that actually plays perfectly to the roleplay. I can't really imagine any pirate collective being 'loved' by others.

While I thought the blockade was a nasty move, it's certainly allowable gameplay. And, yes, people playing in Open should be prepared for this. I can't say the same for any commander who chose to partake in senseless griefing by exploiting game mechanics. Mind you, I don't really agree with those commanders who saw danger and decided to instance out. If you're going to make the run in Open, at least commit to that.

The point I really wanted to make was with your request that others start creating their own in-game content. I think the problem here is that for many commanders, going solo (as in, the lone wolf thing, not Solo mode) is what they're interested in. So you're not going to see a lot of content from them. Then there's the AI mechanics which I believe need to be fixed or ramped up as a response to your activities - not because I want your activities stopped, I just think it would be more realistic and more of a risk for aggressors such as yourselves.

Perhaps the biggest problem is that I don't see the added enjoyment for commanders to coordinate the way you suggest. It's different if you are the aggressor. You can team up and specifically take action. This would work if commanders formed a pirate-hunting posse I guess. But to organise a wing to guard a trade shipment... just in case. Or flying as an escort on an exploration mission... just in case. Maybe it's just me, but I think that would get boring real quick.

Maybe there needs to be a way that players can coordinate in these ways with NPCs? I don't know. I just think you'll be waiting a long time to see a lot of content that is a defense to pirate attack.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Anyone else hear the thread title in the voice of the little girl from "Frozen"?... "So you want to play in Opeeeeeeeeen, come on let's go and plaaaaaaaaay..."
-
Hutton CG almost hit tier 5 and great camaraderie was had.
-
It would appear an (un)civil war is about to start amongst the "friendly pirates". Maybe they will split and become BINARY CODE... Try and separate the ones from the zeros in their ranks?

 

[Jockey79]

I guess the bottom line is we need you folks to get better at this because

Great post, good information there and it is decent of you to share it, so just for that alone +1 from me.
However, I've left one bit quoted as I'd like to address that one point.

There is no "because".

You didn't buy my game, I did.
You didn't buy my computer, I did.
You don't get a say over how I use either, I do.

I play this game to be sociable and to relax. If I want "pew pew" I go play World of Warplanes or World of Warships.
So I do not "need" to get better at it at all.
I just need to enjoy it, how I want to enjoy it, something an Open PvE Mode would go a long way to doing - as social PvE encounters are something I enjoy and cannot freely get right now.

 

[Theodrid]

All developers I know fall into the "group" trap. It's just to attractive to use the easy looking road by listening to the suggestions of a few player groups than to listen to the whole community. It usually results in failure.

Of course you are correct, it is just a matter of how much influence you allow them, CIG, folded their hand, it is a sliding scale from that standpoint to the other, minimal influence many developers tolerate, I just hope Frontier falls into the latter.

 

[Azzan]

There was no interaction, though - just "insta-death" as I boosted away with, as you put it, a decent shield, and chaff too. Same story for many others.

If you boosted away then you tried to run, what did you think would happen?

Did you try coming to a stop and hailing them?

 

[Deleted member 38366]

The sole reason CODE (or any other Group as well as individuals) were successful :

The game is fully optimized towards them with no balance nor Security existent anywhere outside the NoFire zone of a Station (remember even there noone was safe until very recently).
No later than ~7.5km from any Station - all rules and laws end. They exist but there's literally nothing to enforce them, hence they're meaningless.

It's very clear CODE (and the few others) fully know how to "game" the System, anyone can. They know it - we know it.

The problem isn't even CODE (or any other Gankers/Griefers) - it's Frontier's Design Decision to keep severe crimes entirely inconsequential and ensure there's no means of countering or balancing it. Even those tiny possibilities that could make a little difference were castrated and intentionally rendered ineffective. The game is rigged. The table is tilted.

Go to the Forum and warn other Traders of certain CMDRs? Can't do that, Name&Shame policy.
Have all my Combat Ships transported to a nearby Station so I have at least an Option to try to react (if 90 Minutes ETA can still count as "reactive")? Can't do that - takes me half an eternity to shuttle my Ships one by one over 150LY distance.
Can I wing up with the (otherwise helpless) System Security to lead a Wing w/ their NPCs into the right place and put them where they are needed? No, can't do that.
Can I sign up at any CG as a dedicated Fighter Escort and get Crime locations - so at least I know where the action is at? No, can't do that.
Can I act effectively when my FPS counter displays anything between 14 and 2 (!) fps in SuperCruise due to some bug hogging down my CPU? *lol* Not even gonna try.
Can I even reliably transmit my honest Escort intentions to that Type-9 CMDR 1000Ls in front of me, so he doesn't panic-drop in fear I could be a bad guy? No, can't do that.
Can I get at least a basic IFF on who is even a CG participant (no crimes committed against any other CG participant) to know who is who - and give Traders the chance to wing up with the right guys? No, can't have that. Everybody remains a stranger.
Well, can I... NO, can't do that.
Hum, how about... NO, can't do that.
Now, why don't we... NO, you can't do ANY of that.

The list goes on and on.
And with the background that all this is "working as intended" and not by accident, the case is already closed IMHO.

So.... CODE itself isn't the problem at hand.
Actually, even the worst Ganker crowds could provide the best playing grounds for the oldest Gameplay idea in the world - the old Good vs. Bad fight. Perfect scenario - IF things were implemented and balanced right.

BUT - with the table so heavily tilted and it all being intentionally so... No point.
It's Frontier's toxic Design Decisions, apparent lack of MMO designing experience, paired with tons of oversight, superficial implementations and complete lack of common sense that lead us all to where we are.

Things sure would be a whole lot different if they made any sense and everything was properly put in its place, with the needed attention to Detail on System Security and dynamic/effective response.
We simply don't have any of that and the game is still marching into that direction and no reversal in sight.

-----------------------
But all in all - it matches the overall way things are going. Factions in the Game? All lawless entities since V1.3. Laws? Exist - but aren't enforced. Capital Crime Murder? Doesn't exist, lifes are dirt cheap in this anarchic, chaotic and lawless Universe. Stuff that still makes at least some sense? Rare goods. Right now I'd bet there's more Unknown Artifacts in the game than game elements that truly make sense.

And into that dystopian/Mad-Max type bizarro-Universe Frontier has created - groups like CODE basically fit right in.
Open Play is their world, I don't blame them for doing their thing there.

Remember - this is ELITE : Toxic, no reasons needed, no rules, no laws, no consequences, no enforcement, no balance needed, nothing needs to make any sense, anywhere nor anytime.
Cooperation is highly discouraged (but possible within extremely tight limitations and significant risks as stated above) - Non-Cooperative Gameplay (pewpew) is highly encouraged and everything in Open Play (and even the Forum rules here) is geared towards it.
Go figure.

Everything as predicted and it only takes a tiny bit common sense to predict the outcome of such a dysfunctional, flawed, lawless and chaotic "Civilization".
=================================
TL : DR Version
CODE isn't the problem. Technically, not even Frontier is the problem (although they've designed and caused it).

Put in an Image, IMHO this description fits best (mainly directed @ FDev and only to a lesser extent towards Ganker Groups doing their thing) :
View attachment 61594

 

[Lupis]

If you boosted away then you tried to run, what did you think would happen?

Did you try coming to a stop and hailing them?

By Hailing them you mean hailing with bullets and lasers right?

- - - Updated - - -

The sole reason CODE (or any other Group as well as individuals) were successful :

TL : DR Version
CODE isn't the problem. Technically, not even Frontier is the problem (although they've designed and caused it).

Put in an Image, IMHO this description fits best (mainly directed @ FDev and only to a lesser extent towards Ganker Groups doing their thing) :
View attachment 61594

Yeah it's hard to "fight back" when the instancing is activity aiding the pirates and hindering the bounty hunters.

 

[kepler84]

I'm actually cool with CODE, even when I don't like it's methods.

But at the end of the day they are pushing people to keep playing solo and that's a good thing.

Who knows? Maybe sooner or later we could have a pve mode thanks to them.

 

[Iain L]

If you boosted away then you tried to run, what did you think would happen?

Did you try coming to a stop and hailing them?

And say what? Their intentions are clear.

 

[Vasious]

Saw you CODE boys out in SC on my run to Hutton, luckily you lads jumped the T6 in front of my little DBX so I skipped through, I never saw the T6 arrive so got a feeling he didnt submit.

Did make it interesting seeing a blockade and having to actually "risk" the run there.

Look forward to the next CG and possible Code Blockade!!

I find this an interesting comment, in contract to the OP

And no disrespect to Archer_Mcginty

Now why didn't the first thing people was wing up, even if just the Diamond back the the Type 6?

I can see where the better organised comment comes from.

And yes there where Anti-Pirate wings forming and having instancing issues, but it does not seem like the standard Modus operandi of the traders was to group up in a wing as soon as possible but to watch the wolf pack descend on someone else and go "phew"

 

[OamodSias]

I'm actually cool with CODE, even when I don't like it's methods.

But at the end of the day they are pushing people to keep playing solo and that's a good thing.

Who knows? Maybe sooner or later we could have a pve mode thanks to them.

Mobius.
11,500 Cmdr's all in one PvE group.
URL: http://elitepve.com/

 

[Lupis]

I'm actually cool with CODE, even when I don't like it's methods.

But at the end of the day they are pushing people to keep playing solo and that's a good thing.

Who knows? Maybe sooner or later we could have a pve mode thanks to them.

We sorta have that it's called Mobius...ahem group mode.

 

[ianw]

Mobius.
11,500 Cmdr's all in one PvE group.
URL: http://elitepve.com/

We sorta have that it's called Mobius...ahem group mode.

If they had an open PVE mode option in the menu then you'd really see what the majority prefer.

I'd prefer open as is now but I reckon that would be the minority tbh.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

We sorta have that it's called Mobius...ahem group mode.

Very sorta - group mode is still PvP enabled. Just because most or all members of a group decide not to attack each other doesn't turn group mode into a PvE mode. In a PvE mode there wouldn't be the possibility of PvP.

 

[Roberto]

If you boosted away then you tried to run, what did you think would happen?

Did you try coming to a stop and hailing them?

I'd have been dead before I finished typing. These guys were not there for a conversation/roleplay, as evidenced by numerous other reports besides mine. I made a split-second decision to give myself some chance instead of no chance. The right decision, even though I died anyway.

- - - Updated - - -

There is no "because".

You didn't buy my game, I did.
You didn't buy my computer, I did.
You don't get a say over how I use either, I do.

Right on, Commander.

 

[Jockey79]

Mobius.
11,500 Cmdr's all in one PvE group.
URL: http://elitepve.com/

That is a private group - not an official in game mode.

There is a difference.

Also, Mobius is a player like you - who bought the game, like you - why should he be forced into an unpaid GM role? Why should he be forced into sitting for hours accepting requests to the group.
And what happens if he quits ?

The game needs a real Open PvE mode, for those who do not want PvP.

 

[OamodSias]

Very sorta - group mode is still PvP enabled. Just because most or all members of a group decide not to attack each other doesn't turn group mode into a PvE mode. In a PvE mode there wouldn't be the possibility of PvP.

Aye, there is; but the group works on a basis of trust. They expect players to act their age and adhere to the rules of the group.
IIRC, any non-sanctioned PvP (that is, any PvP where one party is against it) can be reported to the group admins and they'll do their thing to have the offender removed from the group. They actively enforce the PvE rule.