Something Elite could really learn from EVE. Please hear me out:

[Alric]

Much more sophisticated, challenging encounters that happen according to the background sim, yes.

Space dungeon instances? No.

 

[duffbeeeer]

OP I think the idea / concept is a good one. How it's implemented can be up for grabs. Maybe it's a cave you have to get in, perhaps entrance size limits ship availability.. perhaps a combat feature in space has co-ordinates and perhaps there's a phenomena that makes the player invisible on radar once there.. However it's done, a personal instanced mission will always be a good feature.

Yes, imo it doesnt have to be a spacegate or something like this. I know that this dungeon in space concept is weird in this context for a lot of reasons. The gate just represents some mechanic that makes you as a player use your normal flight instead of SC and comes with handy reason for why shiptype X cannot take part in the PVE content. Im all up for different ideas than gates but I couldnt think of any so far.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Mission designers could make missions that maybe would only be doable by ships like eagles and smaller. This way the small ships could stay viable throughout the game.

Smal ships are viable throughout the game. Why do people think that small ships aren't viable?

 

[CMDR MERANGO]

Is that the Eve that was hitched to Adam and ate that apple? CMIV

 

[Rankaze]

Smal ships are viable throughout the game. Why do people think that small ships aren't viable?

At the least, the high-end small ships like the Courier are entirely viable. The Eagle is heavily challenged in the survivability department by its lack of utility mounts, in my experience.

 

[duffbeeeer]

The reason I am bringing this up are actually some statements made by FD regarding mission sharing. Afaik they said its very hard to do and might be a long time or if ever implemented. This game needs some group PVE content more than ever now with MC ingame. I see this kind of dungeon system as something that could require a wing/multicrew without messing with the mission system itself. Shooting 3 Elite Condas in USS cant be the all endgame answer. 2.4 could of course be a solution to that issue with nice new alien stuff to shoot at but who knows. So far every major patch went different than expected.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I am not talking about corporations or power grabbing via territory control or anything like that. What is not often talked about is EVEs PVE system, which could make a decent additiion to Elite and solve some problems on the way.

EVE has a mission system like Elite has. Players can talk to Agents or Contacts on Stations, which will create a mission for the player generated proceduraly. EVE is also using templates in variations to generate those in various difficulties. How they are presented in the game world is the key diffrence here.

EVE uses a system called Deadspace. Deadspace is a confined part of a system, which you can only enter via acceleration gates generated just for the mission. Using this gate will warp you into a mission area, which cannot be warped to from the outside. Players can warp out of it anytime but warping back to it, will bring you to the entrance gate instead. This means players have to manually fly through the so called complex or spacedungeon which can also be extended via various subsections through additional gates. The difficulty can increase throughout the complex with more enemies present and even some structure to shoot at. Its up to the mission designer to tell a story by placing npcs and structures along the way. You can really imagine deadspace as spacedungeon will all implications on the way ( Boss NPCs etc, drops of very rare loot etc.)

Due to the nature of acceleration gates, content can be restricted to certain shiptypes via the gates. Mission designers could make missions that maybe would only be doable by ships like eagles and smaller. This way the small ships could stay viable throughout the game. Lessen the hunt for the big ships and the dire need for big credits. This could also add group content in the form of shared bounties and high difficulty for small ships. No new mission transactions are needed because all the money rewards are getting split by the system in place anyway.

We can all agree that the most fun part of Elite is flying in normal space and thus anything that would make that part of the timecake increase, could be a good addition and build upon the strengths Elite has.

Im aware that there maybe certain technical difficulties to solve or they may not be solveable at all. I have no idea how complex the programming effort for this system would be and if its even feasible. Its still worth discussing imo and I invite all of you to do that.

What do you think?

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Deadspace_Details

I think they shouldn't call it that. Dead Space is a great survival-horror/action series from EA.

And in pretty much every other MMO I've ever seen these are called "Instances" and they're typically entered by some means - a portal, gate, door, stairway, elevator, drop ship - but at the end of the day, it's all essentially the same.

Elite has its own instancing mechanic, and when you see it, you'll know - nothing like approaching a CZ, HazRES, or even planet surface with your wing behind you, and seeing all of them listed as being in the same place, yet none of them are around to be seen, and yet each are in their own individual instance, because something went screwy.

 

[fademist]

That's why we had CCP's own Hilmar do the great apology on video after the space barbies aka caged avatars incident?
That's why they actually have playerbase elected player representatives discuss features with their teams?

They make decisions based on feedback they get. Some of that feedback comes from involving/watching (data collection) the playerbase.
And some hails from over-payed business & data analysts with often no real background as a gamer looking at fancy "market trends".
And some from their own team's input.

CCP is just quite good at making the right decisions most of the time.

thats a big illusion......

 

[Brieus]

Smal ships are viable throughout the game. Why do people think that small ships aren't viable?

Because there's nothing a small ship can do, that a larger ship can't do better. Outside of the rare instance of having to go to an outpost with only medium pads.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

That's why we had CCP's own Hilmar do the great apology on video after the space barbies aka caged avatars incident?
That's why they actually have playerbase elected player representatives discuss features with their teams?

They make decisions based on feedback they get. Some of that feedback comes from involving/watching (data collection) the playerbase.
And some hails from over-payed business & data analysts with often no real background as a gamer looking at fancy "market trends".
And some from their own team's input.

CCP is just quite good at making the right decisions most of the time.

Well, I'm convinced. I'm off to.. oh, wait.. I did play EVE, back during the Goonfleet/BoB incident.
It sucked then too. People think we've got grind here, but we've got absolutely nothing compared to what they have.
There are full blown dedicated guides on how to grind everything from faction status (https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gaining_faction_standings_fast) to ISK.

 

[Crank Larson]

Because there's nothing a small ship can do, that a larger ship can't do better. Outside of the rare instance of having to go to an outpost with only medium pads.

The big ships all fly like a tub of lard. All the small ships fly better than the big ones (ok, there may be a couple of exceptions). I'm at outposts and planetary bases all the time, so the pad size is also a significant issue for me (it isn't rare in the slightest).

I still haven't bought a big ship. Not due to lack of credits, but because I can't decide which one to buy (or even if I should buy one at all). When I do finally settle on one, it's probably going to spend most of its time docked somewhere...

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Because there's nothing a small ship can do, that a larger ship can't do better. Outside of the rare instance of having to go to an outpost with only medium pads.

Mmm.. no, not quite so. What Small ship can carry 128+ tons of cargo in one load?

There are places for each ship, and ships of each size.

If I'm trying to reach the top of a freight CG, I'm not going to waste my time trying in a small ship. I'm pulling the tarp off the Type-9 and hauling.
If I'm teaching new players how not to become wreckage as soon as they enter a CZ, I'm bringing an Anaconda.

But if I'm CZing for myself.. I'll likely show up in an FGS or Python.

If I'm just poking about Bounty Hunting - I could turn up in anything from an Eagle or Imperial Courier to a Beluga, mood depending.

 

[fademist]

Mmm.. no, not quite so. What Small ship can carry 128+ tons of cargo in one load?

There are places for each ship, and ships of each size.

If I'm trying to reach the top of a freight CG, I'm not going to waste my time trying in a small ship. I'm pulling the tarp off the Type-9 and hauling.
If I'm teaching new players how not to become wreckage as soon as they enter a CZ, I'm bringing an Anaconda.

But if I'm CZing for myself.. I'll likely show up in an FGS or Python.

If I'm just poking about Bounty Hunting - I could turn up in anything from an Eagle or Imperial Courier to a Beluga, mood depending.

why t-9? cutter is better on that

 

[lefty1117]

USS = deadspace, really. What's really missing is the variety of assets in the USS instances that are created - shipyards, ruined asteroid bases, gaseous areas with shipwrecks in them. The USS are pretty boring in terms of what there is to see in them.

 

[Iskariot]

I am not talking about corporations or power grabbing via territory control or anything like that. What is not often talked about is EVEs PVE system, which could make a decent additiion to Elite and solve some problems on the way.

EVE has a mission system like Elite has. Players can talk to Agents or Contacts on Stations, which will create a mission for the player generated proceduraly. EVE is also using templates in variations to generate those in various difficulties. How they are presented in the game world is the key diffrence here.

EVE uses a system called Deadspace. Deadspace is a confined part of a system, which you can only enter via acceleration gates generated just for the mission. Using this gate will warp you into a mission area, which cannot be warped to from the outside. Players can warp out of it anytime but warping back to it, will bring you to the entrance gate instead. This means players have to manually fly through the so called complex or spacedungeon which can also be extended via various subsections through additional gates. The difficulty can increase throughout the complex with more enemies present and even some structure to shoot at. Its up to the mission designer to tell a story by placing npcs and structures along the way. You can really imagine deadspace as spacedungeon will all implications on the way ( Boss NPCs etc, drops of very rare loot etc.)

Due to the nature of acceleration gates, content can be restricted to certain shiptypes via the gates. Mission designers could make missions that maybe would only be doable by ships like eagles and smaller. This way the small ships could stay viable throughout the game. Lessen the hunt for the big ships and the dire need for big credits. This could also add group content in the form of shared bounties and high difficulty for small ships. No new mission transactions are needed because all the money rewards are getting split by the system in place anyway.

We can all agree that the most fun part of Elite is flying in normal space and thus anything that would make that part of the timecake increase, could be a good addition and build upon the strengths Elite has.

Im aware that there maybe certain technical difficulties to solve or they may not be solveable at all. I have no idea how complex the programming effort for this system would be and if its even feasible. Its still worth discussing imo and I invite all of you to do that.

What do you think?

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Deadspace_Details

I do not think the gates idea would fit in with the nature of Elite, but I do think that perhaps FD might find a different way of doing things.
Many people, including myself, have proposed for example the addition of missions that demand the use of prescribed ships.
This would force many of us into ships we might otherwise never use anymore. It would be great to get a mission that forces me in an Imperial Eagle again.
This could be a Federal espionage mission for example.
Special bosses and special loot would be cool too. I would like a ship to drop a special pre-engineered weapon for example. Of course you would need a cargo hold to pick it that up.

 

[fademist]

I do not think the gates idea would fit in with the nature of Elite, but I do think that perhaps FD might find a different way of doing things.
Many people, including myself, have proposed for example the addition of missions that demand the use of prescribed ships.
This would force many of us into ships we might otherwise never use anymore. It would be great to get a mission that forces me in an Imperial Eagle again.
This could be a Federal espionage mission for example.
Special bosses and special loot would be cool to. I would like a ship to drop a special pre-engineered weapon for example. Of course you would need a cargo hold to pick it that up.

i remember back on ffe2 days we had military missions (needed the ship to have military drives to do some of them) that u needed to take pictures from an enemy base ...

 

[IndigoWyrd]

why t-9? cutter is better on that

Because:
1. Type-9: 76.5 m credits.
2. Cutter: 209 m credits
3. Condition to purchase Type-9 - Having 76.5m credits.
4. Condition to purchase Cutter - Duke or Higher with Imperial Navy (9 months later, still just a mere Baron, but making rank strides hauling 424 tons of Imperial Slaves at a time).

Reason enough?

 

[SentineI]

We ALMOST have this feature already, it's just called something different: Instances (or bubbles). So when you drop into a USS, you get an instance. Another player can drop out at physically the same spot, and they may not see you at all. (This is in contrast to Eve, where everyone sees everyone else UNLESS they implement a special gating mechanism, such as "deadspace".)

The only difference between deadspace & instances is that currently who can enter an instance is determined by their network bandwidth & lag, rather than the game content. So it would be pretty easy to make instances behave exactly like deadspace.


And actually, I believe that a limitation is that USS only appear to the player, and no-one else. So we need a special mechanism (wing beacon) to allow friends to drop into the same instance. So what we have is already REALLY close to deadspace.

 

[thirstyfish]

I am not talking about corporations or power grabbing via territory control or anything like that. What is not often talked about is EVEs PVE system, which could make a decent additiion to Elite and solve some problems on the way.

EVE has a mission system like Elite has. Players can talk to Agents or Contacts on Stations, which will create a mission for the player generated proceduraly. EVE is also using templates in variations to generate those in various difficulties. How they are presented in the game world is the key diffrence here.

EVE uses a system called Deadspace. Deadspace is a confined part of a system, which you can only enter via acceleration gates generated just for the mission. Using this gate will warp you into a mission area, which cannot be warped to from the outside. Players can warp out of it anytime but warping back to it, will bring you to the entrance gate instead. This means players have to manually fly through the so called complex or spacedungeon which can also be extended via various subsections through additional gates. The difficulty can increase throughout the complex with more enemies present and even some structure to shoot at. Its up to the mission designer to tell a story by placing npcs and structures along the way. You can really imagine deadspace as spacedungeon will all implications on the way ( Boss NPCs etc, drops of very rare loot etc.)

Due to the nature of acceleration gates, content can be restricted to certain shiptypes via the gates. Mission designers could make missions that maybe would only be doable by ships like eagles and smaller. This way the small ships could stay viable throughout the game. Lessen the hunt for the big ships and the dire need for big credits. This could also add group content in the form of shared bounties and high difficulty for small ships. No new mission transactions are needed because all the money rewards are getting split by the system in place anyway.

We can all agree that the most fun part of Elite is flying in normal space and thus anything that would make that part of the timecake increase, could be a good addition and build upon the strengths Elite has.

Im aware that there maybe certain technical difficulties to solve or they may not be solveable at all. I have no idea how complex the programming effort for this system would be and if its even feasible. Its still worth discussing imo and I invite all of you to do that.

What do you think?

https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Deadspace_Details

Wouldn't work. Missions in ED involve travelling to a specific system and accomplishing a specific task. Doesn't matter what kind of mission. There is a specific location that you must make your way to. This system simply wouldn't work.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

At the least, the high-end small ships like the Courier are entirely viable. The Eagle is heavily challenged in the survivability department by its lack of utility mounts, in my experience.

This is true. OP did say "eagle and smaller", but I sensed a lumping of all small ships into that group.

- - - Updated - - -

Because there's nothing a small ship can do, that a larger ship can't do better. Outside of the rare instance of having to go to an outpost with only medium pads.

Except be totally F awesome.