Space Scum

[Edgey75]

Can you take him out? This sounds like a case where a small bounty, and the time lost to clear it, would absolutely be worth it.

i could easily take him out but as much as i would like to i am trying to play a good guy and stay mostly clean... in game morals, you got to have rules or you turn into the things you hate
ive hardly got any lifetime bountys against me and most of these were silly mistakes or old issues that have since been fixed, ive hardly done any smuggling and that was just to try out the mechanics of it before i decided to be a good guy.
ive never attacked a player without a bounty on them and ive nver interdicted a player.

the other thing is this guy and his friend aint the sharpest tools in the box and would keep coming back for revenge and die at my hands again until they were bankrupt, its already happened once he didnt learn from that.
i also find it amusing in some ways that they try and grief me as im pretty sure i have more capital and assets than both of them and can stay well ahead of what ever ships they turn up in.
not saying im the biggest fish out their though im far from it and i guess a lot of other players with better ships wouldnt be so lenient as i am, it all comes down to playing a good guy again.

i will bide my time until they move away and get lost in the expanses of space or i see them with a bounty, if i ever see them make a system bounty list i will be on their trail like dog

 

[PhazonAran]

This.

Penalties need a revamp.

Put the bounty for murder to 20 000-50 000 credits. Make it impossible for you to pay it for a few days. Get rid of the smaller bounties (200 and 400 cr) and turn them into fines.

That way, psycho murders will have a rather high bounty during a few days, and bounty hunters will be able to go after them.The only way for psycho murders to avoid BH will be to go solo/group while they can't pay their bounties, but they won't be able to kill anyone if they do this.

 

[Renegade Roach]

I am german, right. And as such i had to google the translation of "complicit" ;-)
So: no, i dont think that anybody who does not condem the OPs attacker is partiylly to blame for that behaviour. Not at all. I simply think its funny how some people are getting off so hard denying the "griefing" aspect on any of these posts that they lose focus the matter at hand, a simple act of uncalled cruelty for the sake of cruelty. And suggesting that the try do veer the discussion off to semantics seem to indicate that they are doing the same stuff and dont want to lose any victims to modes where they cant do "their" thing at all.
At least thats how i see these posts.

For me it's more a case that if we start calling any unprovoked attack 'griefing' it clouds the issue where real griefing is concerned. It's 'the boy who cried wolf' in spaceship form That doesn't mean some of this behaviour is not anti social, it doesn't mean the penalties for murder shouldn't be much harsher, they absolutely should. It would actually make pirating interesting for one thing. Criminality in this game is boring because there are no meaningful consequences, it's why I don't play as a pirate in Elite (as opposed to EVE).

It's also worth considering that not every 'senseless murder' is done 'for the salty tears'. If I were roleplaying that I had laid claim to a backwater system in league with some minor criminal faction I might see it as perfectly valid to destroy any ship attempting to bounty hunt 'my' sites, or trade with stations of opposing factions. To the guy who gets destroyed it would seem like random, senseless violence but only because they were not aware of my stance.

 

[Scimiter]

OP in "OPEN" anything goes, you must always be prepared for combat.
My advice is to play solo for a while, equip your ship and learn how to fight in her at resource sites, Nav beacons and combat zones. Then return to open with your new skills, you should then have worked out when to fight and when to run, good luck.

 

[Renegade Roach]

Put the bounty for murder to 20 000-50 000 credits. Make it impossible for you to pay it for a few days. Get rid of the smaller bounties (200 and 400 cr) and turn them into fines.

That way, psycho murders will have a rather high bounty during a few days, and bounty hunters will be able to go after them.The only way for psycho murders to avoid BH will be to go solo/group while they can't pay their bounties, but they won't be able to kill anyone if they do this.

They get in a Sidewinder and crash it, or have a friend kill them for the bounty. Back to square one. Only way to change this is either have an amount equal to the bounty taken from the aggressor's wallet (very harsh), remove insurance for criminal aggressors (also very harsh, possibly puts people out of the game on one loss), or my favoured option which is a system of escalating lock outs from stations and services combined with a heightened npc police response.

 

[PhazonAran]

They get in a Sidewinder and crash it, or have a friend kill them for the bounty. Back to square one. Only way to change this is either have an amount equal to the bounty taken from the aggressor's wallet (very harsh), remove insurance for criminal aggressors (also very harsh, possibly puts people out of the game on one loss), or my favoured option which is a system of escalating lock outs from stations and services combined with a heightened npc police response.

Add reputation loss ? If their reputation goes down too much stations will simply deny docking permission, this is already the case. And they'll still be able to grind it back up.

I have no problems with pyscho murderers as long as they are ready to cope with the consequences.

 

[Renegade Roach]

Add reputation loss ? If their reputation goes down too much stations will simply deny docking permission, this is already the case. And they'll still be able to grind it back up.

I have no problems with pyscho murderers as long as they are ready to cope with the consequences.

Don't particularly like grindy solutions but it's another option. I prefer the idea of lockouts being tied to current criminal level. What I posted above is also a simplistic version, lockouts would need to 'cascade' through factions with range and severity based on the level of criminality. It would have interesting side effects for gameplay, such as making independent worlds and border zones more dangerous, as they should be.

 

[PhazonAran]

Don't particularly like grindy solutions but it's another option. I prefer the idea of lockouts being tied to current criminal level. What I posted above is also a simplistic version, lockouts would need to 'cascade' through factions with range and severity based on the level of criminality. It would have interesting side effects for gameplay, such as making independent worlds and border zones more dangerous, as they should be.

Don't forget that systems have a security rating. High sec systems should be mostly safe, with a powerful authority that reacts fast, even the Independents. Low sec systems could be like now, small patrols and quite slow to react. Anarchies ? What happens in Anarchy stays in Anarchy

 

[FuzzySpider]

Vulture doesn't seem to care and destroys me in seconds, forcing me to take a loan to re-buy my Viper since I had recently upgraded a component but would've been back above rebuy costs after completing the mission I was on.

That's hard mode. If you leave without enough insurance you take a big risk. I've done it myself, but I've always been ultra-careful when flying without enough funds to cover myself.

Needless to say it left an awful taste in my mouth, so I doubt I'll be returning to open play anytime soon.
Griefers (or whatever other fun name we're going to call them instead) are a blight on the stars.

I am curious about something: If you're interdicted by an NPC and destroyed will you leave Solo mode too?

 

[Snakebite]

OP in "OPEN" anything goes, you must always be prepared for combat.

This isn't true, there are rules....(laws). They are just not very well enforced, but I thinks thats about to change.

Plus you can always join The EDGE We don't grief others but we do back each other up.....

 

[Scimiter]

This isn't true, there are rules....(laws). They are just not very well enforced, but I thinks thats about to change.

Plus you can always join The EDGE We don't grief others but we do back each other up.....

What rules are those? I thought anything goes, you make your way in the Universe exactly as you want, whether its trading, pirating or murder!
Elite is dangerous in "open" and that is how it should be in my opinion, if you want to play safe, then stay in solo or join a group.

 

[SteveLaw]

I am curious about something: If you're interdicted by an NPC and destroyed will you leave Solo mode too?

NPCs are not responsible for their own actions, players are.

 

[Jack Schitt]

I am curious about something: If you're interdicted by an NPC and destroyed will you leave Solo mode too?

That'll never happen. NPC bounty hunters ignore unwanted ships, and NPC pirates sarcastically dismiss you if you have no cargo. AFAIK there are no NPC psychopaths in the current build. There was some fairly sociopathic NPC behaviour in earlier versions but I think that was more down to bugged code than digital role-play. SJA's little virtual people seem to play by a reasonably robust set of rules, but of course that could change.

 

[FuzzySpider]

NPCs are not responsible for their own actions, players are.

That's true. I'm not, in fact, saying it's ok to do this (although I'm not saying it's wrong to do this either). I am curious as to the Ops logic of avoiding open. Open isn't much different than Solo with regards to random and annoying attacks. In fact I actually prefer human pirates, at least they'll ask for something and give you time to ditch cargo as long as you're not deploying hardpoints or powering up your drives. NPC ships just show and attack most of the time.

In the Ops case, where he met someone who simply attacked, that's not very sporting on the part of the attacker. But still it doesn't make sense to "hide" in Solo because all he is hiding from is human players, good and bad, and replacing them with NPC computer players, who are also good and bad.

That'll never happen. NPC bounty hunters ignore unwanted ships, and NPC pirates sarcastically dismiss you if you have no cargo. AFAIK there are no NPC psychopaths in the current build. There was some fairly sociopathic NPC behaviour in earlier versions but I think that was more down to bugged code than digital role-play. SJA's little virtual people seem to play by a reasonably robust set of rules, but of course that could change.

My most used ship is a Type 9 (I am grinding to outfit my collection of vintage lovelies) and I can tell you right now that NPCs are far more irritating than human pirates. They interdict you, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to delay or negotiate. You can't power down and say "wait a sec" or anything. And running from NPC pythons in a D-rated Lakon Type 9 is really really tiresome, particularly when you get "haha drop more victim!" endlessly spammed in the coms panel.

 

[Bladesteel]

That'll never happen. NPC bounty hunters ignore unwanted ships, and NPC pirates sarcastically dismiss you if you have no cargo. AFAIK there are no NPC psychopaths in the current build. There was some fairly sociopathic NPC behaviour in earlier versions but I think that was more down to bugged code than digital role-play. SJA's little virtual people seem to play by a reasonably robust set of rules, but of course that could change.

There are npcs that will interdict, scan, see you have no cargo, and then attack anyway.

 

[PhazonAran]

What rules are those? I thought anything goes, you make your way in the Universe exactly as you want, whether its trading, pirating or murder!
Elite is dangerous in "open" and that is how it should be in my opinion, if you want to play safe, then stay in solo or join a group.

There are laws, there's a reason some actions get you a bounty on your head. Make your way in the Universe, sure no problem ! But your actions should have consequences.

 

[Lobstris]

As someone else above stated, if you think of other players as advanced AI then there isn't really an issue here. The AI in the Elite games (and most other games to be fair) has always been a bit homicidal, attacking for no reason.
.
If this 'Advanced AI' was deliberately targeting the same player over and over again, or exploiting the game rules in some way, then there would be an issue. As it is, it's just 'bad luck old bean!'

 

[excalibus]

I am german, right. And as such i had to google the translation of "complicit" ;-)
So: no, i dont think that anybody who does not condem the OPs attacker is partiylly to blame for that behaviour. Not at all. I simply think its funny how some people are getting off so hard denying the "griefing" aspect on any of these posts that they lose focus the matter at hand, a simple act of uncalled cruelty for the sake of cruelty. And reading that some of them try do veer the discussion off to semantics seem to indicate that they are doing the same stuff and dont want to lose any victims to modes where they cant do "their" thing at all.
At least thats how i see these posts.

English is a contextual language and semantics do play an important part of that... To call something a name that actually means something else rubs some people the wrong way... Under the commonly accepted term for griefing what the OP experienced was not that...

I personally take offense to your suggestion that because I choose to argue over the actual correct use of the word griefing that I must therefore be a person who plays with the mindset of causing grief to other players... You do not know the reasons behind the original attack and I suspect the OP doesn't either, one could surmise that perhaps the attacker was simply bored, saw a human commander in a combat craft and perhaps thought there might be some 'sport' in that...

I also do not think people playing psychopaths are a problem, they rarely affect me, to each their own, I have had more NPC psychopaths try to take me down for no reason than commander psychopaths... oh and I only play in OPEN...

That'll never happen. NPC bounty hunters ignore unwanted ships, and NPC pirates sarcastically dismiss you if you have no cargo. AFAIK there are no NPC psychopaths in the current build. There was some fairly sociopathic NPC behaviour in earlier versions but I think that was more down to bugged code than digital role-play. SJA's little virtual people seem to play by a reasonably robust set of rules, but of course that could change.

There are heaps of NPC psychopaths in the current build... plenty of them... Some will interdict you and just open fire telling you they are going to boil you etc...

NPCs are not responsible for their own actions, players are.

It does not matter from a gameplay perspective tho... if you die to an NPC or a CMNDR the outcome is the same...


FWIW there is a long discussion going on in the crimes and punishments thread, I have put forward a proposal some days ago that maybe some of you should take a look at if you have not already, it covers a great number of aspects of the crimes and punishment parts of the game with some workable methods to deal with some of the problems bounty hunters face, serial criminals should face and also puts forwards a variation on time delays to payments based on actions done in game, station, system, faction (minor and major) affects and the possibility of being unable to dock in a factions space for serious enough crimes etc.

 

[Darth Ender]

what's upsetting to me is that when i go looking for players hunting the non-combative and/or new to introduce to myself all I find are either peaceful players or just somewhat rude players who stumble into my res and start stealing my kills.

It would be fun wrecking the cowards - just never come across them.

Rather than suggest that you leave open because it's "dangerous" and all that nonsense, I'd suggest to just get away from hot beds for a bit until you get more experience. Pick a system off the galactic plane a bit deep in whatever faction you like's territory. The least recognizable the better and hone your skills out there.

There's absolutely no need to leave open to avoid players who prey on the new. Just go 40ly off the beaten path and you probably wont see any cmdr's for a month. Further and you are effectively playing solo without having to sully your soul.

 

[SteveLaw]

It does not matter from a gameplay perspective tho... if you die to an NPC or a CMNDR the outcome is the same...

I don't entirely disagree, but why is it that you so often hear the cries of both:

"If you don't like it go to Solo."

And, the perennial favourite,

"Open should get more reward because the risk is greater."

Edit: Oh and also "just go to a different area, you won't see any players" as above.

So many Open supporters make a very real distinction between NPCs and PCs, so why shouldn't others?