Speculation on Newbie Space

Maolagin

M
Right, let's have a thread to speculate about the Beginner Systems. Where will they be, how will they work?

Note that we've already got a thread to talk about ganking in Newbie Space, please don't make this a copy of that one.

Here's I think the sum total of what we know so far:

Will Flanagan said:
Beginners' Zone

A new collection of systems has been added for newly-created Commanders, and can only be accessed by pilots until they earn their first Combat, Trade or Exploration rank. In addition, the authorities here will provide simpler missions that even the smallest of Sidewinders can complete.

Across the galaxy, new Commanders will also have a reduced rebuy until they gain their first Combat, Trade or Exploration rank, a step in the path towards greatness!
Click to expand...

Will Flanagan said:
These are previously unpopulated systems which have been altered and repopulated for the purpose of the Beginner Zone.
Click to expand...

I've started looking at potential locations. The way things currently work, new players cannot encounter other players (i.e. a soft solo mode) until they make their first hyperjump. It would make the most sense then if the Beginner Systems are accessible directly from the starting location. As I see it there are three possibilities:
  • The default Horizons start is Baker Prospect in Asellus Primus. However, there are no uninhabited systems within a single jump (7.8 ly for a fully fuelled starting Sidewinder) of Asellus Primus, and only a couple within two jumps.
  • The alternate default start is labeled "random Federal system" but I checked a half-dozen "starting from scratch" streams and it's always Levthick Dock in LHS 3447. This is part of a small cluster of closely-packed stars, and there are eight-ish uninhabited systems within one jump of there. However, as you might expect for the densely-settled center of the bubble, those systems are uninhabited because there's not much there. I found a grand total of two systems with planets among those uninhabited systems, and just a single landable body. Still, no reason they couldn't add some stations there, or even hack some new planets into the currently empty systems.
  • Maybe they add a new starting location, in which case all bets are off, although I'm curious to know where folks think that might be.
 

RooksBailey

RooksBailey
Your last bullet point would seem to be what FDev have planned. In the April announcement, they wrote:

A new collection of systems has been added for newly-created Commanders
Click to expand...

So it looks to me that they are creating a scratch-built beginner bubble in the Bubble. :)
 

Maolagin

M
RooksBailey said:
Your last bullet point would seem to be what FDev have planned. In the April announcement, they wrote:

So it looks to me that they are creating a scratch-built beginner bubble in the Bubble. :)
Click to expand...

You'd think that, the way it's phrased, but Will says otherwise.

Will Flanagan said:
These are previously unpopulated systems which have been altered and repopulated for the purpose of the Beginner Zone.
Click to expand...

And in general, FDev have on many occasions edited systems, but I'm not sure they've ever actually added new systems.
 

Florenus

Florenus
Even if I understand the need for a way for new players to ease into the game, I really don't like the idea of permit locked beginner systems. This solution is just too gamey, and breaks the rules of this imaginary universe to have systems whose only reason to exist is to babysit some new pilots.
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
I wonder how access will work. They could use the existing Permits system - where n00bs get a Permit for 'Starter Space', which is taken away when they get a promotion. Which itself would be interesting, as there are no 'area' permits we can obtain at the moment.

I was assuming that 'starter space' would be made up of existing systems - now designated for beginners. Seems that is what Will is also saying, makes sense.
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Factabulous said:
I wonder how access will work. They could use the existing Permits system - where n00bs get a Permit for 'Starter Space', which is taken away when they get a promotion. Which itself would be interesting, as there are no 'area' permits we can obtain at the moment.

I was assuming that 'starter space' would be made up of existing systems - now designated for beginners. Seems that is what Will is also saying, makes sense.
Click to expand...
I'm more interested in what happens if you get your promotion and are still in the starter systems.
If they don't expell you forcefully, it will be for naught, I guess?
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
Bigmaec said:
I'm more interested in what happens if you get your promotion and are still in the starter systems.
If they don't expell you forcefully, it will be for naught, I guess?
Click to expand...
I imagined they would just revoke your permit, so you would only be able to jump away from starter space. Of course that will lead to:

  • I don't have the jump range - help!
  • I have missions in starter space - now I can't complete them!
  • How do I get to my ships / modules

of course if starter-space has done it's job they'll know how to fix all these themselves ;)
 

Bigmaec

Bigmaec
Factabulous said:
I imagined they would just revoke your permit, so you would only be able to jump away from starter space. Of course that will lead to:

  • I don't have the jump range - help!
  • I have missions in starter space - now I can't complete them!
  • How do I get to my ships / modules
of course if starter-space has done it's job they'll know how to fix all these themselves ;)
Click to expand...
It also would lead to experienced players selling 200 void opals (gaining a rank), buy a FdL murderboat and murder noobs without ever leaving the system again.
At least that would be what I'd do if I were a bad person 🤭
 

Factabulous

Factabulous
Bigmaec said:
It also would lead to experienced players selling 200 void opals (gaining a rank), buy a FdL murderboat and murder noobs without ever leaving the system again.
At least that would be what I'd do if I were a bad person 🤭
Click to expand...
I guess you could make sure the nearest Prison is outside the starter space, and that ATR is 'quite active'. But I'm sure there are other threads discussing that ;)
 

Snowymonk

Snowymonk
I see it working the same way as the training missions / first jump starter system works.
The system(s) are permit locked for any commander from jumping into if their rank exceeds the basic level.

This will allow new Commanders to
  • learn the basics of jumping in safety
  • dock / undock within a system to multiple stations (assuming that they are present in system)
  • get a foothold in their ship before they are exposed to the wider community.

Couple of questions.
1) Assuming that the rank check is made on jumping into the system in the same way that permit locking currently works, is there a way to prevent a home grown seal clubber who started in the newbie area staying in the system and just picking off new, poorly defended, ships at will?
2) How would mission stacking work? Again, assumption but I assume that a pilot could mission stack and that at some point, cashing in a mission would take them over the minimum threshold. Would a pilot still be allowed to cash in the remaining missions? Would they be able to take further missions in a station, even if they are over the newbie threshold?
3) Assuming that the newbie systems will have at least two markets. Will trading in station / between stations be possible? Would it be validated against newbie rank? We have seen pilots make it to Beagle Point in a sidewinder - they are a dedicated lot. I could envisage someone wanting to see if they could get to trade elite in the starter system...
 

13A/24B

13A/24B
I guess one option would be to deny station access as soon as you gain a rank, as well as system access, and also limit what is available in outfitting - no rails/PA etc, no fuel scoops, no HRP/SCB and only D rate modules.

That way you would have to leave the system eventually to re-arm/refuel/repair.
 

Snowymonk

Snowymonk
13A/24B said:
I guess one option would be to deny station access as soon as you gain a rank, as well as system access, and also limit what is available in outfitting - no rails/PA etc, no fuel scoops, no HRP/SCB and only D rate modules.

That way you would have to leave the system eventually to re-arm/refuel/repair.
Click to expand...

My fear is that if the logic isn't fully thought through, that it would lead to salt / problems / people leaving because the don't understand why they are being blocked from what they were doing before.
If access is limited, people will fall into a number of categories:

  • I have a load of missions to hand in, why can't I land...?'
  • I haven't got enough fuel and now cannot land to refuel or jump to a new system
  • I could land before and now I am being shot at / was shot

as they will be newbies, I think that there would be a higher chance that the pilot would put down the game and give up. There would be not deep detachment (that the majority of us have)
 

Clifra Jones

Clifra Jones
I just see this as having huge potential to go wrong and little potential to go right.

Barring some technical reason I/we don't know about wouldn't it just make more sense to start players at stations randomly throughout the bubble?
 

Maolagin

M
Clifra Jones said:
Barring some technical reason I/we don't know about wouldn't it just make more sense
Click to expand...
I think the idea is to give new players a few systems to move around in, so they can get the hang of jumping, using the galmap, taking missions to nearby systems - while getting more handholding than in the regular galaxy. As for why not just dump them in Solo mode by default (or a hidden PG consisting only of other new players) - the missions, NPCs, and other challenges are apparently going to be crafted for a beginner experience.

All in all that would probably make more sense as it's own pocket universe, but perhaps adding such a thing (in contrast to the fully scripted tutorial scenarios) was deemed more effort than it was worth. Even so, it seems like there's more benefit to keeping the newbies inside until they are affirmatively ready to leave, than keeping everyone else out.
 

AlaricVonDrago

AlaricVonDrago
They should make beginner zones in each of the factions -- maybe a choice for the player with a brief explanation.

Send em to the Empire, we need more fresh meat. The only power to serve is Aisling, so if they put her picture on the empire, we'll outbreed you federal dogs in no time.
 
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