Spring 2024 DLC Speculation

I would honestly still prefer the flamingo over the ocelot in that constellation.

Having both spoonbill or ibis and a flamingo from the same area, would mean I don't have to do yet another aviary featuring only one bird. That would be much more exciting to me.

And with Oceania pack in mind, I guess it is not impossible.
Thats understandable but i dont see 3 birds even in an animal pack and prefer the rhea vastly over the flamingo.
Multi species aviaries are awesome, but atleast personally having a space filler and some actuall patagonian representation trumps it for me.

Also reminds me why i want the white faced whistling duck so bad.

Imagine we had all 5, dream come true and id honestly be okay with a habitat bird list for SA of rhea, spoonbill, ibis, duck and flamingo, that would be a more then pleasent state
 
Thats understandable but i dont see 3 birds even in an animal pack and prefer the rhea vastly over the flamingo.
Multi species aviaries are awesome, but atleast personally having a space filler and some actuall patagonian representation trumps it for me.

Also reminds me why i want the white faced whistling duck so bad.

Imagine we had all 5, dream come true and id honestly be okay with a habitat bird list for SA of rhea, spoonbill, ibis, duck and flamingo, that would be a more then pleasent state
Same.

OMG all this flamingo demand makes me nervous haha like i understand that the ibis and spoonbill chances are not very high but i swear if we get another flamingo instead of the rhea i will cry.

That said i still prefer ibis and spoonbill over a flamingo repaint.
 
May i ask, why are people talking about NA animals for the last pack?

Maybe its my european bias but arnt europe and NA pretty much the most complete continents who dont need anything else?

Sure something more would be nice, the mallard duck especally would be a huge boon for both, but besides birds theres nothing here that Rivals the last big hitters or important filler of other continents.

For example generic american deer and the black buck might fill the same niche for their ranges, but indias lack if a basic ungulate is much worse then NAs.

Or while the european wildcat is neat, the ocelot is needed to make up for the SA biodiversity hole.

Id still like both continents to get 1 more animal in case of an around the world pack, but the mallard is by far the most tempting choice to cover both and be done with it while still giving something meaningfully new to those 2 continents
I understand with how far we are into the game North America is complete , especially compared to continents like South America. I’ll say though, a large amount of wildlife native to North America are also native to Europe and due to the size of the continent so many of the native species aren’t “local” if that makes sense? Like yes, the reindeer, Wolverine, polar bear, and arctic fox are all native to Europe and North America. These animals live so far north though it’s almost hard for me to see them as “native” wildlife. Likewise for me American alligators live miles down south, and the bison, pronghorn, cougar, grizzly bear, grey wolf, and prairie dog also live no where near me. The only NA animals that are native to where I live are the moose, bullfrog, and beaver.


Do I think NA needs a ton more animals? Absolutely not (outside of birds), but I do think that there are a number of key species missing. The ABB is one of them, if we completed nearly all big cats and have multiple Asian bears I think we can get one of the most important native animals in NA zoos. There probably 3+ zoos in my area all with ABBs, most are actually rescues too. Other than that, I think the only NA mammals I need are the American porcupine as a cool arboreal rodent, and then maybe the red wolf and black footed ferret due to relevant conservation stories.

Otherwise I really want birds (to keep this brief I won’t include reptiles and insects, there are some I want see my local animal pack thread) have none for any USA/ North America Zoo, and aviaries and birds are popular here. Just a couple groups/ birds to mention:
  1. Waterfowl, literally any. North America is kind of known for them
  2. Burrowing owl
  3. Roadrunner
  4. Cranes, either Sandhill or whooping
  5. Wild turkey
  6. Prairie chicken
  7. Pelicans
  8. It is a flying bird, but the California condor is such a huge conservation story it’s hard not to mention it
  9. Speaking of flying birds, literally the bald eagle
 
I think it's pretty safe to assume that there is only one pack left, considering 2023 has revolved completely around the old world (Eurasia, Oceania, North Africa, and southeast asia again) I think the most most most likely theme for the final pack is gonna be the New World.

So New World Pack:
  • Native American scenery
  • 5 NA animals
  • - Walrus
  • - Muskox
  • - Sea Otter
  • - American Black Bear
  • - WTE: Snowy Owl
  • 5 SA animals
  • - SA Coati
  • - Patagonian Mara
  • - Greater Rhea
  • - Black Howler
  • - WTE: Macaws

I would personally love to add arctic hare, mallard, titi and tamandua into the mix but I feel they wouldn't add so many animals...
I actually wouldn't mind having that pack as it contains 4 species in my top 10. I would just replace the Greater Rhea with Spectacled Bear but I'm not sure 2 bears in the same pack would be a great idea so I could go with Ocelot too. That being said, I would be sad if the final pack is only focused on Americas.
 
I always don't know where all the love for the Ocelot comes from. To me it always looks like a Jaguar only a little smaller.
Wouldn't the Andean Cat or Geoffreys Cat be a much better pick for SA than the Ocelot? At least they look a little different to the cats we have.
It doesn't really matter to me, I don't need another cat in the game, the Sand Cat was already too much for me. I'm just curious why you all choose the Ocelot. (Maybe because it is kept more often?)

View attachment 382607View attachment 382609
It's 100% because they're kept more often, are more iconic, and more well known. Those are all good reasons in my book.

I'd absolutely love to get some of these other increasingly obscure small cats, but not before the ocelot, serval, Pallas's, and fishing cats.
 
Because it's a better-known species that would sell better to players less familiar with wildlife diversity, I guess.
Better-known, huh? Tell that to the people who can't tell the difference between Jaguars and Leopards. I can already see them pointing at the Ocelot in the zoo and saying "Look, a baby Leopard!" :LOL: - Sorry, I couldn't resist that 🤫
 
Dang I missed a lot, but at least now we’re talking about something other than support ending.

I’m fine with the Ocelot, it’s not the most interesting I agree its just a small Jaguar, I would prefer us not get a cat at all for a LA pack, instead for the carnivore put in a canid since there’s 1 that’s way more interesting and unqiue than the rest of our LA roster. I’d assume this guy can use the Tasmanian devil or Badger rig.
Bush-dog-Speothos-venaticus.jpg

I think it's pretty safe to assume that there is only one pack left, considering 2023 has revolved completely around the old world (Eurasia, Oceania, North Africa, and southeast asia again) I think the most most most likely theme for the final pack is gonna be the New World.

So New World Pack:
  • Native American scenery
  • 5 NA animals
  • - Walrus
  • - Muskox
  • - Sea Otter
  • - American Black Bear
  • - WTE: Snowy Owl
  • 5 SA animals
  • - SA Coati
  • - Patagonian Mara
  • - Greater Rhea
  • - Black Howler
  • - WTE: Macaws

I would personally love to add arctic hare, mallard, titi and tamandua into the mix but I feel they wouldn't add so many animals...
I guess I would be okay with this, but there’s no way I can accept this without a pelican. Especially considering the one species is found along the coasts of both continents. I would be a bit disappointed because it doesn’t have a baboon, but this does make sense for the finale pack.
Rhea more important for SA that overrated masked bear
Sure, but the Spectacled Bear is a more interesting animal than the South American ostrich imo.
 
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Because the muskox and the walrus which are both high in the meta wishlist are still NA animals. Likewise, small creatures such as the mallard, a lagomorph like the arctic hare and the iconic sea otter are all good potential additions. And well the ABB while I dont think it's the greatest addition I understand why people want it and honestly we are only missing 2 bears sooooo whateBEAR

Love your pack ideas but I would choose NA porcupine instead of a ABB. Game would definitely benefit more from an arboreal rodent in my opinion and I get why ABB is important for North Americans. I just think that NA porcupine just have more to offer and it’s unique.
 
Oh I always interpreted it as "if there's an update coming after this, it's going to include the scenario editor".
...Or that. Haha. I always forget this is an option but that could be a really fun way for Frontier to extend the game's lifespan for everyone. Creators would enjoy building the 'templates' and the less-sandbox-focused folks would still get content!

I think hummingbirds would work as standalone as well, but yeah macaws are more popular and versatile.

Although if we get macaws i don't deny i'll be always wondering why not toucans and hummingbirds as well. Regardless i'll be ok with them only.
Great point about the hummingbirds. And those would arguably be a bit more similar to butterflies (so might be easier?) but... Yeah. I'm hoping for parrots. If we got hummingbirds that'd be fine too but I'm Team Macaw all the way!
 
.

Sure, but the Spectacled Bear is a more interesting animal than the South American ostrich imo.

More interesting? Maybe, that's subjective. More important? No.

Just like with the ocelot, i rather get the true basic/essentials first. Rhea fills Patagonia and pampas. Is much more versatile and useful for mixed enclosures.
 
May i ask, why are people talking about NA animals for the last pack?
With the most recent 'Eurasia' pack, some were thinking that the hypothetical last pack might be 'Americas', though I don't really like to group them like that. They are different realms.
Maybe its my european bias but arnt europe and NA pretty much the most complete continents who dont need anything else?
South America has the most needed things by far, South Asia has 2 major gaps, East Asia needs a bit more, and Africa has years worth of favorites. Almost nobody is disputing that.
However the nearctic realm roster, particularly for endemics, is kind of weak in a few areas. We're also missing some of our most common local zoo animals. On that front, we've gotten sea lions, alligators, bison, prairie dogs, beavers, brown bears, wolves, and mountain lions. For zoo staples, we're still missing birds, wapiti, porcupines, black bears, river otters, and bobcats, but I understand why we probably won't get the last two.

I'm going to start a North American (nearctic) roster from scratch:
  • Obvious base-game level picks that we share with other realms:
    • Tundra: Polar bears, caribou, and harbor seals (grey are ok, too) are very iconic for colder regions. They have some presence in captivity.
    • Taiga: Brown bears and grey wolves have a huge range across the taiga. They are popular and common in zoos. Moose and wolverines are also very iconic and obvious candidates for inclusion even though they have a limited presence in captivity. .
    • South America: The mountain lion is super important for both continents.
    • Thoughts: The northern sections of NA are pretty well fleshed out. There are some iconic species in that mix that should be included. However, nearly all of them are cold-climate animals. I can't build for anything other than the northern pine forests and tundra. The mountain lion, while useful, can't carry the south.
  • Key endemic species:
    • American Bison: The national mammal of the US is also the largest. It has a lot of conervation and cultural history.
    • American Beaver: This keystone species has cultural and conservation history, and it is the national mammal of Canada. It has a wide range.
    • Prairie Dog: This keystone species is very common in local zoos. Younger children congregate near them, and they are a popular staple of NA zoos.
    • American Alligator: This adds a reptile and our most showcased crocodilian. They are needed for the southeast.
    • American Black Bear: The king of the backyards has color morphs and is the most kept bear here. It can tie together the temperate section. For variety, I can decide which bear to use. The bears are our variety-thing, like Europe's deer, but they're all unique enough to warrant inclusion.
    • California Sea Lion: This popular pinniped is an icon of the west coast and its associated Mediterranean biome.
    • Bighorn Sheep: Adds the most iconic (I see them in media and decor all the time) and showcased local caprid with a range into the desert canyons of the southwest. The pronghorn and dall sheep partially cover its niche, so the ABB takes much greater precendence for me at the moment. It is still important for deserts and the Rocky Mountains, which are lacking ungulates. It would also add an arid goat.
    • Thoughts: Assuming the roster is somewhat balanced, I could almost stop there.
      • The black bear and beaver cover the temperate zone. The taiga and tundra were decently covered previously. Bighorn sheep and mountain lions cover the deserts and Rocky mountains. Prairie dogs and bison represent the grasslands. The southeast has is alligator and panther.
      • However, international zoo representation for the continent is weak, there are no birds, and there isn't much for small mammals, so I would add a few more.
  • Still Pretty Important/Essential endemic species:
    • Raccoon and Skunk: These two are apparrently the most iconic and popular NA endemics abroad. They're a good duo to cover that niche and finish small mammals. The porcupine could be an alternative to the raccoon to add something that we actually showcase frequently, but raccoons are more popular abroad, have a wider range, and are interesting to watch. I'm fine with their choice.
    • Wild Turkey: This domestic ancestor has a wide range and would add a bird for the realm. They are the largest fowl by a wide margin and about twice the weight of peafowl.
    • Pronghorn: With the other 3 additions, the desert and grasslands look a bit weak. I would throw this one in as an interesting oddball ungulate.
    • Arctic Wolf?: With the previous caribou and upcoming musk ox, it's nice to have a white wolf to showcase with them for predator-prey education. They are also cool.
    • Thoughts: If we get the missing first four, I would say the realm looks pretty good. Maybe it would need another bird, perhaps a deer, and the arctic has some missing icons, but that would cover everything pretty well.
  • Still pretty important stuff we share with other continents:
    • South America: Peccaries and armadillos are still useful for the southern regions, but their range is limited here. Brown pelicans and, to a lesser extent, roseate spoonbills would be good birds for both continents. Manatees, if possible, would be awesome as well.
    • Taiga: Red foxes are pretty iconic and colorful as far as foxes go. They are a good choice. Mallards are also not bad.
    • Tundra: Walruses are probably the most recognizable pinniped and very iconic for the arctic, and musk ox would provide an interesting large herbivore. Arctic foxes add a small carnivore to go alongside the wolverine in tundra sections.
    • East Asia: Wapiti are much more common in zoos than moose and nearly as impressive, also boasting large antlers and a similar height. Wapiti have a loud, majestic call, and they add representation for the Rocky Mountains, temperate evergreen rainforest, and parts of Asia. Sea otters are unique and iconic. I think we're more likely to get them than the river otter.
    • If possible, Sea turtles would be awesome for most of the continents.
    • Thoughts: The sea otter, sea turtle, and manatee don't seem very likely at the moment. At least one of the SA birds, wapiti for a showstopper, and the arctic favorites are pretty strong contenders, even though I don't need them as much as some of the previous stuff.
  • Other endemics I would love to see: grey fox, white-tailed deer, Rocky mountain goat, roadrunner, cranes, river otter, bobcat, wood duck, porcupine, and maybe a coyote.
I think the people going on about NA having excellent representation are ignoring nearctic endemics and focused on the northern animals common to Eurasia, vagrant neotropical animals, and Central America. My continent encompasses an entire biogeographical realm, and we have a bunch of biomes: eastern deciduous forests, southestern subtropics/tropics, central grasslands, southwest deserts with steep canyons and sand, Mediterranean west coast, temperate evergreen rainforest, evergreen temperate/taiga forests, Rocky Mountains, coastal sections, wetlands, and tundra. Only the northern ones have great coverage at the moment. Our low biodiversity means you almost have to 100% the megafuana to just cover the basic niches of local sections, but most of us aren't and haven't been seriously asking for a lot.

For endemics, many of us (as far as I can tell) need at least one bird, need the black bear, want/need an ungulate for the Rocky Mountains (bighorn sheep, wapiti, and rocky mountain goat all have some support), and most of us are attached to one or two small critters, with grey foxes, bobcats, otters, and porcupines coming up most frequently. Coyotes and white-tailed deer come up occasionally, too. Opossums and ringtails are potential oddballs. We haven't gotten much from DLCs lately. Peccaries and armadillos have their uses, but they are much more from the neotropical realm. The twilight animals are pest species locally and uncommon in our zoos though they do boost temperate regions slightly and help with small mammal rep. The North America pack was awesome, but it was over two years ago. It feels like we haven't gotten anything good in ages.
 
With the most recent 'Eurasia' pack, some were thinking that the hypothetical last pack might be 'Americas', though I don't really like to group them like that. They are different realms.

South America has the most needed things by far, South Asia has 2 major gaps, East Asia needs a bit more, and Africa has years worth of favorites. Almost nobody is disputing that.
However the nearctic realm roster, particularly for endemics, is kind of weak in a few areas. We're also missing some of our most common local zoo animals. On that front, we've gotten sea lions, alligators, bison, prairie dogs, beavers, brown bears, wolves, and mountain lions. For zoo staples, we're still missing birds, wapiti, porcupines, black bears, river otters, and bobcats, but I understand why we probably won't get the last two.

I'm going to start a North American (nearctic) roster from scratch:
  • Obvious base-game level picks that we share with other realms:
    • Tundra: Polar bears, caribou, and harbor seals (grey are ok, too) are very iconic for colder regions. They have some presence in captivity.
    • Taiga: Brown bears and grey wolves have a huge range across the taiga. They are popular and common in zoos. Moose and wolverines are also very iconic and obvious candidates for inclusion even though they have a limited presence in captivity. .
    • South America: The mountain lion is super important for both continents.
    • Thoughts: The northern sections of NA are pretty well fleshed out. There are some iconic species in that mix that should be included. However, nearly all of them are cold-climate animals. I can't build for anything other than the northern pine forests and tundra. The mountain lion, while useful, can't carry the south.
  • Key endemic species:
    • American Bison: The national mammal of the US is also the largest. It has a lot of conervation and cultural history.
    • American Beaver: This keystone species has cultural and conservation history, and it is the national mammal of Canada. It has a wide range.
    • Prairie Dog: This keystone species is very common in local zoos. Younger children congregate near them, and they are a popular staple of NA zoos.
    • American Alligator: This adds a reptile and our most showcased crocodilian. They are needed for the southeast.
    • American Black Bear: The king of the backyards has color morphs and is the most kept bear here. It can tie together the temperate section. For variety, I can decide which bear to use. The bears are our variety-thing, like Europe's deer, but they're all unique enough to warrant inclusion.
    • California Sea Lion: This popular pinniped is an icon of the west coast and its associated Mediterranean biome.
    • Bighorn Sheep: Adds the most iconic (I see them in media and decor all the time) and showcased local caprid with a range into the desert canyons of the southwest. The pronghorn and dall sheep partially cover its niche, so the ABB takes much greater precendence for me at the moment. It is still important for deserts and the Rocky Mountains, which are lacking ungulates. It would also add an arid goat.
    • Thoughts: Assuming the roster is somewhat balanced, I could almost stop there.
      • The black bear and beaver cover the temperate zone. The taiga and tundra were decently covered previously. Bighorn sheep and mountain lions cover the deserts and Rocky mountains. Prairie dogs and bison represent the grasslands. The southeast has is alligator and panther.
      • However, international zoo representation for the continent is weak, there are no birds, and there isn't much for small mammals, so I would add a few more.
  • Still Pretty Important/Essential endemic species:
    • Raccoon and Skunk: These two are apparrently the most iconic and popular NA endemics abroad. They're a good duo to cover that niche and finish small mammals. The porcupine could be an alternative to the raccoon to add something that we actually showcase frequently, but raccoons are more popular abroad, have a wider range, and are interesting to watch. I'm fine with their choice.
    • Wild Turkey: This domestic ancestor has a wide range and would add a bird for the realm. They are the largest fowl by a wide margin and about twice the weight of peafowl.
    • Pronghorn: With the other 3 additions, the desert and grasslands look a bit weak. I would throw this one in as an interesting oddball ungulate.
    • Arctic Wolf?: With the previous caribou and upcoming musk ox, it's nice to have a white wolf to showcase with them for predator-prey education. They are also cool.
    • Thoughts: If we get the missing first four, I would say the realm looks pretty good. Maybe it would need another bird, perhaps a deer, and the arctic has some missing icons, but that would cover everything pretty well.
  • Still pretty important stuff we share with other continents:
    • South America: Peccaries and armadillos are still useful for the southern regions, but their range is limited here. Brown pelicans and, to a lesser extent, roseate spoonbills would be good birds for both continents. Manatees, if possible, would be awesome as well.
    • Taiga: Red foxes are pretty iconic and colorful as far as foxes go. They are a good choice. Mallards are also not bad.
    • Tundra: Walruses are probably the most recognizable pinniped and very iconic for the arctic, and musk ox would provide an interesting large herbivore. Arctic foxes add a small carnivore to go alongside the wolverine in tundra sections.
    • East Asia: Wapiti are much more common in zoos than moose and nearly as impressive, also boasting large antlers and a similar height. Wapiti have a loud, majestic call, and they add representation for the Rocky Mountains, temperate evergreen rainforest, and parts of Asia. Sea otters are unique and iconic. I think we're more likely to get them than the river otter.
    • If possible, Sea turtles would be awesome for most of the continents.
    • Thoughts: The sea otter, sea turtle, and manatee don't seem very likely at the moment. At least one of the SA birds, wapiti for a showstopper, and the arctic favorites are pretty strong contenders, even though I don't need them as much as some of the previous stuff.
  • Other endemics I would love to see: grey fox, white-tailed deer, Rocky mountain goat, roadrunner, cranes, river otter, bobcat, wood duck, porcupine, and maybe a coyote.
I think the people going on about NA having excellent representation are ignoring nearctic endemics and focused on the northern animals common to Eurasia, vagrant neotropical animals, and Central America. My continent encompasses an entire biogeographical realm, and we have a bunch of biomes: eastern deciduous forests, southestern subtropics/tropics, central grasslands, southwest deserts with steep canyons and sand, Mediterranean west coast, temperate evergreen rainforest, evergreen temperate/taiga forests, Rocky Mountains, coastal sections, wetlands, and tundra. Only the northern ones have great coverage at the moment. Our low biodiversity means you almost have to 100% the megafuana to just cover the basic niches of local sections, but most of us aren't and haven't been seriously asking for a lot.

For endemics, many of us (as far as I can tell) need at least one bird, need the black bear, want/need an ungulate for the Rocky Mountains (bighorn sheep, wapiti, and rocky mountain goat all have some support), and most of us are attached to one or two small critters, with grey foxes, bobcats, otters, and porcupines coming up most frequently. Coyotes and white-tailed deer come up occasionally, too. Opossums and ringtails are potential oddballs. We haven't gotten much from DLCs lately. Peccaries and armadillos have their uses, but they are much more from the neotropical realm. The twilight animals are pest species locally and uncommon in our zoos though they do boost temperate regions slightly and help with small mammal rep. The North America pack was awesome, but it was over two years ago. It feels like we haven't gotten anything good in ages.
I really dont see how peccary+dillo, the twilight critters and the wolverine are not good additions to the region.
 
I have an idea! Why doesn't Frontier gives us both the spectacled bear and rhea! I think its kind of silly to pick one or the other because they are both so different. If we get a pack devoted to Latin America, I'm SURE we'll get both. Unless they save the spectacled bear for an Alpine Pack (If support isn't ending 😥)

Also, as a North American, there really aren't any animals that I want from here, that I couldn't live without. I mean, I would like the ABB, wapiti, burrowing owl, na porcupine, sea otter, musk ox, walrus etc, but LA, African, Asian, and Oceanian animals are all still at the top of my list.
 
Better-known, huh? Tell that to the people who can't tell the difference between Jaguars and Leopards. I can already see them pointing at the Ocelot in the zoo and saying "Look, a baby Leopard!" :LOL: - Sorry, I couldn't resist that 🤫
I guess there are different "levels" of knowledge about wildlife and of course some people really don't know anything but I also feel that Ocelot tends to be more known than the other cats you mentioned 😅 That's why I think it would be a better choice. That said, developers happened to give us species that I'm sure 95% of people on this planet don't know, if not more. Here we all have a great interest in wildlife so it sometimes can be hard to realize some people simply don't care about it.
 
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Yes and no you see you can use those cats for those areas but now what can you use ocelots for?

Ocelots live in:
  • Tropical Rainforest
  • Mangrove Swamps
  • Wetlands
  • Tropical Grassland aka South American Savannah
  • Dry Forests
  • Thorn Forests (imagine a dry forest, but its coverd in spikes)
  • South American Deserts
  • North American Deserts
  • Mountain Forests
  • Rural Landscapes

And im pretty sure i even missed some.
But do you have necessary plant selection to do anything outside tropical rainforest? 🤪
 
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