Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Intrepid3D

Intrepid3D
VR Mr Teatime said:
The bomb explosions look OK, but there are many questions from watching that video:

Why is the bomber dropping from small arms range, let alone manpad range?
What happens if the bomb is released from a sensible 15-20,000 (or higher) feet up, is that possible?
What kind of target acquisition and tracking methods are available e.g. CCIP or CCRP?
Is target tracking disrupted by terrain?
Are guided bomb units available (GBU's) to assist in destroying moving targets?
Are there other bombs other than what looks like a high drag
Wouldn't stand-off missiles be a better/more realistic method of attack?
What indirect targetting methods if any are available i.e. lasing by SF/ground based units?
The flight time of the bomb in the last run was pretty short, but did it follow a ballistic trajectory or did it straight line to the ground?
If ballistic can they be tossed onto target?
Why did the ground vehicle get destroyed by collatoral damage, but the bomber did not even though they looked like they were a comparible distance away from the impact point?

Its all very well going oooh and ahhh over the pretty explosion effects, but not if you can't use the thing effectively in PvP/PvE combat, because the physics, sensor and guidance modelling isn't there to allow it...
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Why is the bomber dropping from small arms range, let alone manpad range?
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Just testing?

What happens if the bomb is released from a sensible 15-20,000 (or higher) feet up, is that possible?
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Yes, its meant to be dropped from a higher altitude. Tho maybe not 20,000 feet, about 8-12,000 feet.

What kind of target acquisition and tracking methods are available e.g. CCIP or CCRP?
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I don't know what those are, it has a HUD UI projected over the terrain showing where it will land and its flight trajectory.

Is target tracking disrupted by terrain?
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Don't know, there is no target locking.

Are guided bomb units available (GBU's) to assist in destroying moving targets?
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No, or not yet?

Are there other bombs other than what looks like a high drag
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No, or not yet.

Wouldn't stand-off missiles be a better/more realistic method of attack?
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None, Its meant to be a brute force dumb weapon, inaccurate but with a huge boom for a large destruction radius, like carpet bombing.

The flight time of the bomb in the last run was pretty short, but did it follow a ballistic trajectory or did it straight line to the ground?
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You mentioned drag, it has flaps on the back that deploy in flight deliberately to slow it, it flies like a heavy ballistic projectile.

If ballistic can they be tossed onto target?
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That's how you operate it, it has no propellent but the flaps give it some flight trajectory for hitting targets you see ahead of you through a HUD UI.

Why did the ground vehicle get destroyed by collatoral damage, but the bomber did not even though they looked like they were a comparible distance away from the impact point?
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Its a big dumb bomb with a very big bang, it will just destroy everything in its quite large blast radius. i don't know exactly what that radius is, my guess is <1KM.
 
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VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Mole HD said:
A fair few of those subscribers to sc_refunds have never spent a penny on SC in the first place.
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Yeah but loads of them have spent many pennies ;)

VR Golgot said:
Kinda depends if they end up like this I guess:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/r1nmkk
Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/r1nmkk/any_reviews_or_thoughts_on_selling_entire_account/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/r1nodu
Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/r1nodu/cashed_out_over_5k_and_free_at_last/

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/r30w4v
Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen_refunds/comments/r30w4v/the_last_citizencon_seems_to_have_rocked_the/
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What's more likely to be driving the ongoing rise in the refunds sub members? Drama hunters (given SC isn't exactly a hot topic in the gaming press these days), or guys getting sick of waiting for a release title after 9 years? ;)
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
VR Golgot said:
Sure. But where did I say otherwise? :)

(I mentioned a bunch of metrics, not anecdotes, which show SC to be worse on almost every front. I only didn't mention pre-order monies taken because I thought that was pretty obvious ;))
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Well, your description as simply "But it's only really a saving grace when cast against SC" when all is taken into account suggested that both cases are pretty much the same. But if I misunderstood you my bad.

As explained, among other elements, both the impact in terms of pre sales (very limited in both time and amount in the case of ED, versus the totality of the population and 400+ millions without an end date for SC/SQ42) and in terms of released content (the fact FDEV has been actually releasing according to their plan without no signs of stopping, versus zero released content by CIG) show that both companies are light years appart and several orders of magnitude difference in terms of actual delivery.


VR Golgot said:
It's daft to seize only on the caveats, as some do, and try to argue that therefore these aren't clear and obvious pre-orders. (With all the rights for consumers and obligations for the provider that a pre-order entails).

It just comes across as notably hypocritical to criticise SC's many excesses on this front, and then give FDev a complete free pass on their 'dream future' marketing and use of early pre-orders for the same.
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We are not talking free passes here, but caveats matter. As mentioned above this is simply about corresponding proportionate response, and paying attention to track record.

These comparisons are just nonsense to start with. Much like Enron should not receive the same market treatment or critique as a company that introduces a minor typo in their latest financial statement. I see this kind of "level playing field" simplistic reductionism, literally used often by some current or former SC fans (not necessarily here) due to some misguided notion of "equality" or to appear magnanimous when there is nothing to really "equal" or be magnanimous about here. Orders of magnitude difference between the elements compared.


VR Golgot said:
They pre-sold a product. Fans have a right to expect something which resembles the item described. That's it ¯\(ツ)/¯

It just so happens that SC has described an impossible product with an eagle's head, a Javelin's body, and 10,000 working feet. And that's both funnier, and far more dubious on a consumer rights front ;)
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Fully agree, although the caveats indeed matter and can not be ignored. Either way, the thing is in the case of FDEV we often forget that fans have already received a ton of the items described, and FDEV has subjected themselves to the judgement of the market for it:
Many of those original plans and intentions (ship interiors is but one) have already come to pass by the way. From Newsletter 29 where FDEV outlined what they intended to do wrt future content DLCs after initial release:

For example, our current roadmap is to add (in no particular order):
  • Landing/ driving / prospecting on airless rocky planets, moons & asteroids
  • Walking around interiors and combative boarding of other ships
  • Combat and other interactions with other players and AIs in the internal areas of star ports (Note: EDO on the other hand offers combat in interiors of settlements and on all planetary surfaces though)
  • Accessing richly detailed planetary surfaces
  • Availability of giant ‘executive control’ ships to players
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  • Green is delivered: With EDH, EDO and Fleet Carriers. Although first person combat happens rather outside star ports not inside.
  • Red is not delivered yet: no ship interiors indeed yet.
  • Orange is partially delivered: EDO´s thin atmospheres, updated planetary surfaces and new biologicals. Not yet delivered things like thicker atmospheres, liquid masses or prominent flora and fauna.
All in all not a bad delivery record on their original intents post base game release.
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And nothing suggests things have stopped. At least not yet.

Whereas CIG have released exactly zero over 9+ years.

Again it is utter nonsense to put both cases even in the same sentence or comparison. Enron vs accountancy glitch. But if it is done then I´d imagine a bit of care needs to apply so to ensure the orders of magnitude differences are highlighted.
 
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VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Viajero said:
Well, your description as simply "But it's only really a saving grace when cast against SC" when all is taken into account suggested that both cases are pretty much the same. But if I misunderstood you my bad.

As explained, among other elements, both the impact in terms of pre sales (very limited in both time and amount in the case of ED, versus the totality of the population and 400+ millions without an end date) and released content (the fact FDEV has been actually releasing according to their plan without no signs of stopping, versus zero released content by CIG) show that both companies are light years appart and several orders of magnitude difference in terms of actual delivery.



We are not talking free passes here. As mentioned above this is simply about corresponding proportionate response, and paying attention to track record.

This comparisons are just nonsense to start with. Much like Enron should not receive the same market treatment or critique as a company that introduces a minor typo in their latest financial statement. I see this kind of "level playing field" simplistic reductionism, literally used often by some current or former SC fans (not necessarily here) due to some misguided notion of "equality" or to appear magnanimous when there is nothing to really "equal" or be magnanimous about here. Orders of magnitude difference between the elements compared.



Fully agree, although the caveats indeed matter and can not be ignored as you did in your original intervention. The thing is in the case of FDEV we often forget that fans have already received a ton of what was described and FDEV has subjected themselves to the judgement of the market for it:




And nothing suggests things have stopped yet. Whereas CIG have released exactly zero over 9+ years.

Again it is utter nonsense to put both cases even in the same sentence or comparison. Enron vs accountancy glitch. But if it is done then I´d imagine a bit of care needs to apply so to ensure the orders of magnitude differences are highlighted.
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Let's save some time.

Do you agree with this sentiment?: The ED DLCs are just something they'd "like to do", not pre-sold future products.
Do you agree with this sentiment?: SC's stretch goals and ships are just something they'd "like to do", not pre-sold future products.

I am simply disagreeing with both sentiments ¯\(ツ)/¯

(While still noting the differences in scale between the two projects re pitched complexity, pre-orders taken, products delivered, etc etc etc).
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
VR Golgot said:
Let's save some time.

Do you agree with this sentiment?: The ED DLCs are just something they'd "like to do", not pre-sold future products.
Do you agree with this sentiment?: SC's stretch goals and ships are just something they'd "like to do", not pre-sold future products.

I am simply disagree with both sentiments ¯\(ツ)/¯
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This is going nowhere Golgot I am afraid. I´ll save us both some more discussion and simply repost what I posted with regards to that kind of simplistic reductionism you seem to insist on:

These comparisons are just nonsense to start with. Much like Enron should not receive the same market treatment or critique as a company that introduces a minor typo in their latest financial statement. I see this kind of "level playing field" simplistic reductionism, literally used often by some current or former SC fans (not necessarily here) due to some misguided notion of "equality" or to appear magnanimous when there is nothing to really "equal" or be magnanimous about here. Orders of magnitude difference between the elements compared.
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And
Again it is utter nonsense to put both cases even in the same sentence or comparison. Enron vs accountancy glitch. But if it is done then I´d imagine a bit of care needs to apply so to ensure the orders of magnitude differences are highlighted.
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VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Viajero said:
This is going nowhere Golgot I am afraid. I´ll save us both some more discussion and simply repost what I posted with regards to that kind of simplistic reductionism you seem to insist on:


And
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Ok, seeing as you cannot bring yourself to answer, I've decided you must think these things are true:

VR Golgot said:
The ED DLCs are just something they'd "like to do", not pre-sold future products.
SC's stretch goals and ships are just something they'd "like to do", not pre-sold future products.
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And that everything else I've clearly said about the differences between the projects (IE it 'not being a level playing field'), are not true :p
 

Ronzer

Ronzer
LTNTDan said:
Well after the Odyssey fiasco a lot of CMDR's indeed moved on from Elite to SC. No question about that as many of those "Elite Refugees" end up being some of it's best content creators with years of of making exclusive Elite content.
As a matter of fact, I've just recently found The Pilot, one of the best (seriously, look up his ship review videos, they're the bomb) is actually playing SC now and making awesome content too:
And spreading ship wisdom smoothly as ever:

Good stuff!
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That's true, but I think the feels back then were that it was an almost expected thing. But, more importantly, that SC would actually be released by now. Odyssey is like an odd miracle that sketchily (is that a word?) made SC world space champ for 2021, but SC was to have been released and this forum would be focussed talking about how things could be made better in SC. But here we are, SC nowhere closer to release, possibly further from it (since the less they do, the more bucks they get), and now deemed constant live upgrades? Looks nice, just sucks it's a scam.

VR Golgot said:
No this is revisionism. Ship boarding was pre-sold as part of both the Kickstarter DLC overviews and the specific Lifetime Pass purchases:



Equally, the fact that 'detailed planetary surfaces' of later DLC were meant to involve cloudscapes, liquids and complex life etc was made clear at the time:



Ship stealing and big game hunting were cast as possibilities within that, not certainties, sure. But the big beats were pre-sold as things that were coming.

What distinguishes ED from SC on these fronts, and is a comparative saving grace, is that:

They only pre-sold these elements on a few occasions, gave no time frame for delivery, didn't pitch for the same number of 'never been done before' moonshot combinations, and kept the details vague enough to give themselves developmental flexibility. So there's a greater likelihood that they can deliver on those big beats.

But it's only really a saving grace when cast against SC ;). Taken on its own merits, these are still undelivered, pre-sold, features, which have been dangled as carrots to make the existing game more enticing etc.
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Ok, well that's really good to see. As you say, saving grace being no specific time frame, but the best part of that is that all this time, they've still been adding things. Seeing that list may suggest boarding ships would be next but its seems they release stuff as it's ready. More like they release stuff 6 months before its ready, actually. My bet would actually be liquids and life that inhabits that, so...fishing? since that would be easiest to add in next and constitutes complex life organisms. You could argue what we see using scanners already is complex...do we want more? Yup.
 

Intrepid3D

Intrepid3D
sovapid said:
the little gift boxes are probably no longer the best way to earn money in game :ROFLMAO:

robertsspaceindustries.com

So little gifts now suddenly only 250aUEC and not 1000? - Star Citizen Spectrum

Loreville cheapskates... Lost bloody 300 000aUEC before I noticed it...
robertsspaceindustries.com robertsspaceindustries.com
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It never was, a full prospector of Quantum is worth 280,000 aUEC once refined, Quantum is plentiful in the belt, you could make about 200,000 to 500,000 aUEC per hour.

Look for ones with 20% or more rocks in any of these belt bands.

qevFIvu.png
 

Phlegm

P
Ronzer said:
But gaming has changed a bit too. Where a few years ago, FPS shooters were a big thing, look at how good Farming Simulator 22 is doing compared to Battlefield 2042.
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Very disingenuous, BF2042 is A) Not the only big FPS released this past month, and B) It's a bug-riddled, incomplete mess.

The latest Call of Duty is still doing Call of Duty numbers, the whole thing of comparing Battlefield 2042 to Farming Simulator was to show how badly Battlefield has dropped off due to some sub-par releases and a player-hostile attitude in marketing the previous entry in the series. FPS aren't going away.
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Agony_Aunt said:
:ROFLMAO: 🤪 💩🤡

RemindMe! 1 year
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That guy is on a total troll. It's clearest if you look back at how he started on this run a few weeks back:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/r135wp
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/r135wp/i_dont_understand_why_star_citizen_gets_so_much/


Everything he's posted since then has shifted closer to Poe's Law territory, but he's still just playing an uber backer:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/re2758
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/re2758/2022_is_going_to_be_the_year_for_star_citizen/


He's been posting variants of that quote by the dozen (despite getting repeatedly called out by folks over Salvaging's history etc etc ;)). I guess maybe that's his aim? Either to get backers to agree with silly things, or to get them to make the case against CIG's own roadmaps ;)
 
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