Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

LittleAnt

L
Viajero said:
Having to remove your helmet to drink water because you are dying of thirst is just annoying in a space game to be honest. Especially when your drinking animation breaks every other time you try or die by falling through the floor instead. In a space game I want to feel spacey things, not that “I am human”.

But just so to stress that your argument does not mean much, let´s play that game. We can actually use any game. Copying your own words, you could also argue that:

The specific itches that ED scratch are clearly better than other spaces games, in giving the sense of being part of a real galaxy at full scale where you have complete freedom and control to navigate and steer your ship at super luminous speeds. SC just has one solar system and the second you step into it you ARE already limited by its dwarfed scales, no real celestial motion simulation to speak of, an arbitrarily restricted waypoint based navigation system and a complete lack of exploration mechanics. In ED on the other hand you are part of an actual full scale environment with actual celestial motion simulation. This sense of being part of an actual real universe is also greatly enforced by all the cosmic and planetary phenomena you encounter, black holes, neutron stars, lagrange clouds, interstellar void life forms, actual and real catalogued celestial objects in the milky way that you can in fact fly and visit such as VY Canis Majoris, the Pleiades, Sagitarius A* or even our own solar system bodies. You never feel more immersed in a space game than when you have complete freedom to fly wherever you want to explore in a real simulation of a full galaxy based in actual astrophysics principles and real data, and where some of the sites you visit will literally be unique, where no other player or developer will set foot ever.

And that is just one example of one of the itches in one game alone that SC can not scratch. We could also go to extend that to the multiplayer, humongous instancing and org features in EVE, or the crafting possibilities in Space Engineers (where you also have a great sense of "being a human in a ship" by the way, plus you get to build it even) or the tons of different biomes and base building possibilities in NMS, or the great economic and manufacturing simulation in X4 or... Most of those games actually offer to scratch many more itches than these, and SC simply can not and probably will not.
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Still glued in your seat. You ARE the ship, not a human.
 

LittleAnt

L
[VR] Merkir said:
I'm gobsmacked that you have a good VR headset but have never tried ED in VR. Your position seems quite hypocritical. You keep saying SC has better immersion and accuse others of not testing all of the SC game loops to experience that immersion, but you purposely have never bothered to experience ED in VR? Wow, just wow.
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I just don't have the cable and my quest is recent. I even haven't played Alyx yet.
 
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DrinkyBird

DrinkyBird
LittleAnt said:
Why ? Anything to know before configuring it ?
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As I described in another thread,
The UI is awkward (especially with keyboard and mouse), the performance is bad (on Horizons on a PC that can handle HL Alyx fine on high settings), it looks bad (no matter what I do with in-game or external supersampling I could always count the pixels), the kind of stuff I do in ED generally requires alt-tabbing out a lot and I often play with YouTube or whatever on a second monitor, and it overall feels like the VR support was just a side project by an employee that Braben allowed work on for a couple days back in 2014 because he could use it as a marketing point.
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Plus Oculus' software is just awful and crashed twice during a ~90-minute session of HL: Alyx last night...
 

Darkfyre99

Darkfyre99
LittleAnt said:
Still glued in your seat. You ARE the ship, not a human.
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I haven't been glued to my seat in Elite: Dangerous since May 12th, 2016. The date when I first stepped out into the 3rd Dimension of ED in VR. And let me tell you, there's no greater feeling of immersion than getting out of your seat, leaning against your ship's canopy, and gazing out into the vastness of space, knowing that every single star you see can be visited in the game. How's that second star star in SC coming again? Oh, right... the first star remains nothing but a light source in the game.

I'm far more likely to be able to do something similar to that in Starfield, long before I'll be able to do that in Star Citizen. Which is surprising, given how long ago that we were promised that SC will have VR...

Oh, and there are plenty of other games set in space that are also playable in VR. No Man's Sky, Subnautica, Star Wars Squadrons, Lone Echo, and Star Trek Bridge Crew all come to mind. Star Citizen is far behind the curve these days. Remember, after three years...
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
LittleAnt said:
Still glued in your seat. You ARE the ship, not a human.
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And you are still glued to a single, not to scale, dwarfed and pretty much motionless system, that all players have seen thousands of times, without any unique discoveries, with no free navigation control, bound to a limited waypoint system, all in a space game without a complete lack of any space exploration mechanics.

I mean, that type of reasoning of yours is useless. Most space games out there offer to scratch tons more itches than SC, features that SC simply can´t do, and will probably never do, due to to its limitations and broken code.
 
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[VR] Merkir

[VR] Merkir
LittleAnt said:
I've never tried ED in VR but, having a Quest 2 at home, for sure I believe you when you say it's really good. No 2D screen can beat a good VR for immersion. SC has native eye and head tracking that can help to relieve a little the 2d screen and give a 2.5d but I need to try at least once ED in VR. But I'm sure it will not be enough to make me forget I'm glued on the seat.
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LittleAnt said:
Still glued in your seat. You ARE the ship, not a human.
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Regarding the parts in bold, I respectfully but totally disagree. This is why you need to try ED in VR for yourself and not just imagine what you think it might be like. Adding to what others have already said...

Firstly, I can get up and move around anywhere in the cockpit. When I got VR in 2016 I made videos for my BGS buddies while walking around showing them parts of the cockpits they'd never seen before - entry doors, panels, wiring, scratches on the backs of the pilot seats, signage, hexagonal raised floor matting, the stitches in my leather gloves, closeup reflections and scratches in the canopy, coffee pots, ladders, the metre wide holo-radar (which actually looks a metre wide in VR), and so on. All while sitting right next to an Earth-like planet and station in full VR 3D glory, watching it rotate and actually look like it's kilometres long (because it really does look like it is, in VR).

Secondly, when I'm using my HOTAS irl, I can look down at exactly the same cockpit flight stick and throttle in VR moving in perfect synchronicity with my actual hand motions. I press the fire buttons and see my fingers in VR press the same fire buttons on the VR flight stick.

Thirdly, when I sit back down, my office seat is in exactly the same position as my VR pilot's seat (of course), so while you're clicking your mouse on the glowing orange seat in SC the message that says "ENTER YOUR SEAT", I'm actually sitting in my pilot's seat.

So without experiencing any of this yourself, do you really think you have the authority or experience to say to everyone here that "You ARE the ship, not a human"?
 

[VR] Merkir

[VR] Merkir
DrinkyBird said:
As someone who's tried ED on a Quest 2: prepare to be massively underwhelmed. (But still incredibly impressed compared to SC.)
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The UI is awkward (especially with keyboard and mouse), the performance is bad (on Horizons on a PC that can handle HL Alyx fine on high settings), it looks bad (no matter what I do with in-game or external supersampling I could always count the pixels), the kind of stuff I do in ED generally requires alt-tabbing out a lot and I often play with YouTube or whatever on a second monitor, and it overall feels like the VR support was just a side project by an employee that Braben allowed work on for a couple days back in 2014 because he could use it as a marketing point.
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I think your case might be a little unusual. I'm sure most players with VR use a HOTAS, since it costs much less than the headset. I really can't imagine trying to play ED in VR with mouse and keyboard. When I play in VR, the UI works almost identically to the monitor UI. The main difference is the galaxy and system maps, but all quite ok with Hotas.

On a personal note, I've used the Oculus CV1, Pimax 5k and Quest 2, and I actually prefer the old CV1 for ED since it's the only OLED display. The blacks are nice and black and the frame rate is high, at the cost of lower resolution and screen door.
 

WhiteHaulerMan

WhiteHaulerMan
I will say, for the sort of games you and I play, TrackIRs better IMO due to the number of keystrokes involved in for example DCS.
PiLhEaD said:
I sort-of get what LA is saying here, and have long found a 'fixed' viewpiont in any flight game (NMS, ED, DCS, IL2.. etc) to be quite 'claustrophobic'.

So I use head-tracking - and oh boy does it change the feeling and (sorry) immersion of such games.

I've not tried VR yet as Mrs PiLhEaD's opinions matter... ;-)
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PiLhEaD

PiLhEaD
WhiteHaulerMan said:
I will say, for the sort of games you and I play, TrackIRs better IMO due to the number of keystrokes involved in for example DCS.
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100%, I need to see both the keyboard and my coffee/scotch, although having Voice-Attack helps too.

I still use my mk1 EdTracker through open track but am tempted to try freetrack* as it removes the need to have a small box + usb cable velcro'd to my headphones. It's not actually too bad, and it gives Mrs PiLhEaD a few laughs, so all's well.

* oops, I meant smoothtrack.
 
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VR Golgot

VR Golgot
[VR] Merkir said:
On a personal note, I've used the Oculus CV1, Pimax 5k and Quest 2, and I actually prefer the old CV1 for ED since it's the only OLED display. The blacks are nice and black and the frame rate is high, at the cost of lower resolution and screen door.
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Yeah these are the main negatives I've heard re the Quest 2 & ED. No dark blacks on the LCD screen and performance costs from resolution.

Just pensioned off my old CV1 for a Q2 so guess I'll find out at some point ;). (Tethering seems to work fine, and liking the clarity. Airlink definitely didn't work out of the box for me though, need some tinkering there. Mainly just playing Nock at the moment ;))
 

DrinkyBird

DrinkyBird
[VR] Merkir said:
So without experiencing any of this yourself, do you really think you have the authority or experience to say to everyone here that "You ARE the ship, not a human"?
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I mean you don't even need VR or anything to disprove that. Headlook mode is a middle-mouse button away, the camera suite lets you look at yourself inside your cockpit, and Odyssey even lets you disembark!



[VR] Merkir said:
I think your case might be a little unusual. I'm sure most players with VR use a HOTAS, since it costs much less than the headset. I really can't imagine trying to play ED in VR with mouse and keyboard. When I play in VR, the UI works almost identically to the monitor UI. The main difference is the galaxy and system maps, but all quite ok with Hotas.
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Even the cheapest popular HOTASes are still £100+, and also have the added cost of having to relearn the game's controls, neither of which I can afford right now. As I recall, using m+k in VR you can't select systems with the mouse, you have to use the keyboard controls and navigate the map to the system if that makes sense. Plus the game randomly releases the mouse which then keeps leaving the game's window (which was tiny to maximise performance). And you can't see the keyboard in VR so I kept pressing the wrong buttons.
[VR] Merkir said:
On a personal note, I've used the Oculus CV1, Pimax 5k and Quest 2, and I actually prefer the old CV1 for ED since it's the only OLED display. The blacks are nice and black and the frame rate is high, at the cost of lower resolution and screen door.
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Honestly the black levels in the Q2 are pretty good for what it is, but an OLED would be nice too!
 
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