What if there is no game at all?
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
- Thread starter Yaffle
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Roberts & Co wins. The House always wins.
Maybe you don't take my p2w claims seriously, that's up to you. I know many who do think SC is P2W.
Yamiks did a good video on P2W, you might want to check it out.
I have no idea about Rainbow 6.... is that some sort of children's game about rainbows and pets? But if you can buy in-game assets with real world money, then yes, it is pay to win.
Pay to give Chris a new home.
I'd rather jump off a tall building than watch a yamiks video.
And you have never heard of Tom Clancy's Rainbow 6? Either the novel or video game series? lol
Rainbow 6 Siege is a PVP tactical team shooter, 5vs5 in matches of attack/defence, where all the operators (player builds/loadouts/abilities) are more-or-less extensively balanced. Progression is unlocking alternative operators and cosmetics, but the game balance isn't affected. Pay2Win (or Pay2Progress if the main term offends) packs are available for cash to skip/accelerate progression.
With a popular eSports scene, Ubisoft regularly publishes stats on the operators - most used, least used - and make balance tweaks based on those stats and feedback from the pro-esports players.
Operators | Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege | Ubisoft (EU / UK)
Discover the unique personality and specialty of each operator in Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege.
www.ubisoft.com
It was obvious in-game price would ultimately significantly rise up, though not this far from release or at least release of a fulfledged dynamic economy. They must be craving for money.
Of course it's not P2W, it's pay to ensure Devs keep working on never release a game so you can keep not winning in a buggy alpha
Of course it's not P2W, it's pay to ensure Devs keep working on never release a game so you can keep not winning in a buggy alpha
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Rainbow 6 Siege is a PVP tactical team shooter, 5vs5 in matches of attack/defence, where all the operators (player builds/loadouts/abilities) are more-or-less extensively balanced. Progression is unlocking alternative operators and cosmetics, but the game balance isn't affected. Pay2Win (or Pay2Progress if the main term offends) packs are available for cash to skip/accelerate progression.
With a popular eSports scene, Ubisoft regularly publishes stats on the operators - most used, least used - and make balance tweaks based on those stats and feedback from the pro-esports players.
Operators | Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege | Ubisoft (EU / UK)
Discover the unique personality and specialty of each operator in Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege.
There are degrees of pay2win obviously. The key is the “size” of the advantage gained over other players by paying real money. In some cases the advantages may be small enough so to render the p2w discussion moot even if there is some, this may very well be the case of R6S. Not familiar with it but if “operators” in there are reasonably balanced between them and/or the matchmaker is reasonably balanced then by definition there may not be much advantage to be had with money.
This is not the case in SC at all though, where there is no balanced matchmaker, and ships have significant absolute advantages over each other.
With regards to the topic of the varying degrees of p2w, when p2w becomes moot or not etc, this video is pretty useful explaining the concept:
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Now a better example of P2W would be to compare a game like Rainbow 6 to CoD, and how they keep on releasing expensive skins for the latter which basically make players who purchase them much harder to spot/hit than players who don't.
Fair enough but he makes some very good points regarding the nature of pay to win and Enderprize does a great job playing foil to Yamiks, bringing up the usual arguments as to why something isn't pay to win such as "How can it be pay to win if there is no win condition?" among others.
Of course I have, was just yanking your chain. I think i even read a Tom Clancy novel once many years ago when i was incredibly bored and had nothing else to read. Eminently forgettable.
Anyway, i've never played it and have no idea how it works, but as i said, if you can buy in game assets that provide some level of advantage or progress with real money, then yes, its pay to win. If you like, we can use the term pay to progress or pay for advantage or pay to skip, it all falls under the same umbrella.
Rainbow 6 Siege is a PVP tactical team shooter, 5vs5 in matches of attack/defence, where all the operators (player builds/loadouts/abilities) are more-or-less extensively balanced. Progression is unlocking alternative operators and cosmetics, but the game balance isn't affected. Pay2Win (or Pay2Progress if the main term offends) packs are available for cash to skip/accelerate progression.
With a popular eSports scene, Ubisoft regularly publishes stats on the operators - most used, least used - and make balance tweaks based on those stats and feedback from the pro-esports players.
Operators | Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege | Ubisoft (EU / UK)
Discover the unique personality and specialty of each operator in Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege.
Got it. So well balanced but still with P2W elements.
Ah, i did watch Josh's video on that a while ago.
Some people also get hung up with the idea that P2W can only exist in multiplayer games as well. There are single player games that have clear pay to win elements as well, even if its just speeding up unlocks.
lol
I'll buy you the $90 ultimate edition of r6 instead of the pleb $8 version where you have to earn the operators in game.
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Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Siege is an elite, tactical team-based shooter where superior planning and execution triumph. All players will keep their current content and progression, including access to Ranked Mode and the Siege Cup, when Siege X releases.store.ubisoft.com
And you get post videos of all the winning you do with the P2W edition!
Deal?
This makes SC not P2W how?
Real quick Star Citizen is...
No Pay2Win
Cash4Crash
Perma-Beta Profit
Forever-Alpha Fleecing
Money-Gate Gaming
Monetize in Motion
Eternally Unstable Exploitation
Never-Ready Revenue
Fund-and-Forget Fiasco
Cashflow Alpha Chaos
Perpetual Pay2Play Prototype
Forever-Testing Toll
Cash Grab in Code
Alpha Fee Fiesta
Infinite Instability Income
Money Pit Prototype
Endless Alpha Exploitation
Pay2Progress Prolonged
Continuous Coin Capture
Perma-Bug Payment
Developmental Dollar Drain
...I used ChatGPT for those, good eh? Cash4Crash is my favourite.
No Pay2Win
Cash4Crash
Perma-Beta Profit
Forever-Alpha Fleecing
Money-Gate Gaming
Monetize in Motion
Eternally Unstable Exploitation
Never-Ready Revenue
Fund-and-Forget Fiasco
Cashflow Alpha Chaos
Perpetual Pay2Play Prototype
Forever-Testing Toll
Cash Grab in Code
Alpha Fee Fiesta
Infinite Instability Income
Money Pit Prototype
Endless Alpha Exploitation
Pay2Progress Prolonged
Continuous Coin Capture
Perma-Bug Payment
Developmental Dollar Drain
...I used ChatGPT for those, good eh? Cash4Crash is my favourite.
Rainbow 6 is the one where Terrorists fight vs Law Enforcement in PvP 1st person. It's more tactical than Counter Strike with setup time, booby traps and breaching points.
Even if we aknowledge no P2W in SC because of reasons (no win, no real advantage, etc.)
Even if we put aside the toxicity of micro/macrotransactions on fragile souls
No one should ignore the impact of this kind of business model on the development model. The Fidelicious Mess is a living proof: priorities are not set on releasing a stable game but generating money, META will constantly change not for the balance or challenge but to generate money, the whole in-game economy will be dictated on how to make players spend more money.
I don't think that's what everyone signed for. I don't think it fits with the "we're not like evil publishers" stance and other good words from The Pledge.
Even if we put aside the toxicity of micro/macrotransactions on fragile souls
No one should ignore the impact of this kind of business model on the development model. The Fidelicious Mess is a living proof: priorities are not set on releasing a stable game but generating money, META will constantly change not for the balance or challenge but to generate money, the whole in-game economy will be dictated on how to make players spend more money.
I don't think that's what everyone signed for. I don't think it fits with the "we're not like evil publishers" stance and other good words from The Pledge.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
I was about to say the same! Extremely appropriate.
This is mine