Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[[VR] Merkir]

Oh, Pyro feel VERY claustophobic because of the thick nebula or whatever it is. Also, this is how the star looks when it's behind the nebula gases. Someone had to tell me, because I started wondering if it's a glitch in planetary textures or something

I can't answer your nebula question, but I will comment that I don't condemn game devs for exaggerating large scale planetary or system phenomena. Realistic is often boring, or even unnoticeable. Having said that, I notice CIG exaggerates to the extreme. I suspect that's what you're seeing, and I always have a little chuckle at their 1000 km altitude atmospheric cloud formations.

 

[TNTDany]

Played some on stream today. Was OK, no bugs or issues really, nice surprise! Went from A18 to Baijini, then to Pyro via the jumpgate. It's actually pretty cool, but could be a bit shorter. Pretty cool stuff! Pyro was OK too, but janky. Not what you would expect from an FPS game, but hey we all know how bad it is. But yeah, the jumpgate stuff was pretty good actually!

Just finished a ~5h sesh myself, one of those nights when time flies... Found a huge a+ship that could even carry Betsy while hunting baddies! Had to make the most of it so I did, even managed to completed a 300k mission that just wouldn't be possible with Betsy alone. Even managed to dock at a station and store Betsy safe and sound.

Spoiler: Bonus

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Serious case of the confabulations...

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiI27PDfr64

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

Just finished a ~5h sesh myself, one of those nights when time flies... Found a huge a+ship that could even carry Betsy while hunting baddies! Had to make the most of it so I did, even managed to completed a 300k mission that just wouldn't be possible with Betsy alone. Even managed to dock at a station and store Betsy safe and sound.

Spoiler: Bonus

I have to like your posts TNT, as you and Rootsrat show, people can get StarCitizent to work, and in a pretty way, and with some ‘unique’ features, but Rootsrat at least caveats that he found it boring and bug-ridden. Do you feel it’s been worth the almost billion dollars and 12 years to get here?
And do you think it’s possible to deliver the dream that CR has promised?
What do you make of all the criticism here?

 

[Mole HD]

I have to like your posts TNT, as you and Rootsrat show, people can get StarCitizent to work, and in a pretty way, and with some ‘unique’ features, but Rootsrat at least caveats that he found it boring and bug-ridden. Do you feel it’s been worth the almost billion dollars and 12 years to get here?
And do you think it’s possible to deliver the dream that CR has promised?
What do you make of all the criticism here?

I've had many decent multi hour bug free sessions either solo or with mates when I've played...or rather before KCD2 came along and made every other game I play entirely irrelevant... Overall I've never really suffered the 'streamer bugs' I see hundreds of clips showing, maybe it's because after playing for so many years I just automatically play around them or just have a knack for avoiding them

Overall, I've never found playing SC as bad as the talking about it.

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

I've had many decent multi hour bug free sessions either solo or with mates when I've played...or rather before KCD2 came along and made every other game I play entirely irrelevant... Overall I've never really suffered the 'streamer bugs' I see hundreds of clips showing, maybe it's because after playing for so many years I just automatically play around them or just have a knack for avoiding them

Overall, I've never found playing SC as bad as the talking about it.

Yeah, it’s been fun following your sc journey over the years Mole I remember back in the very early days your first entries in the early thread, you’ve definitely got a high tolerance, maybe your training or cows!
I’m genuinely interested in human psychology and how people’s reality is different from each others. SC is a microcosm for how the whole world works in some respects.
I’m guilty of being flippant on this thread, with my dev hat on, it’s so easy to pick holes in the sc mess, and I watched that first ks video of cr but although tempted, I never liked the guy and ks ed instead- although I’d met db in a work capacity previously and wasn’t entirely confident in the game he’d make, but my memories of the original elite were better than the corny wing commander series.

Cheers!

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Yeah, it’s been fun following your sc journey over the years Mole I remember back in the very early days your first entries in the early thread, you’ve definitely got a high tolerance, maybe your training or cows!
I’m genuinely interested in human psychology and how people’s reality is different from each others. SC is a microcosm for how the whole world works in some respects.
I’m guilty of being flippant on this thread, with my dev hat on, it’s so easy to pick holes in the sc mess, and I watched that first ks video of cr but although tempted, I never liked the guy and ks ed instead- although I’d met db in a work capacity previously and wasn’t entirely confident in the game he’d make, but my memories of the original elite were better than the corny wing commander series.

Cheers!

One thing i find funny is the tolerance of so many people for bugs, even during what is touted as a "PLAYABLE NOW" alpha, whereas if you look at the general gaming population through the lens of Steam discussions or forums and see people rage quitting and venting over much more trivial bugs than people experience in SC.

All you have to do is browse these forums, the recent colonization update threads for example, with people raging about shadows, anti-aliasing, issues with the FC bartenders, despite not even being the topic of the thread, saying FD should fix those before adding colonization.

I suspect part if it, at least in relation is to SC, is the difference between those who are extremely patient with CIG and can handle the decade of non-release, bugginess, and really are fine with treating it like a very extended alpha, and therefore accept the bugs, vs those who bought in due to the marketing and "PLAYABLE NOW" guff, and expect a somewhat "PLAYABLE NOW" game experience.

If I had been stupid enough to give Crobbers money all those years ago, I'm pretty sure i would not have subjected myself to many hours of play, dealing with the bugs, just to experience the alpha. I'd let it rot in my gaming library until it reached the point where "PLAYABLE NOW" was a reality rather than a meme, a 1.0 gold release, assuming that ever happened. Got better things to do with my gaming time than put up with buginess that ruins the experience or, as Mole noted, work around those bugs.

For all its issues, ED rarely is ever in a state where any particular bug affects my enjoyment to the point where I put it down. Occasionally, after a major update, seeing bugs, i'll give it a few days for a patch to fix what needs fixing, that's about it.

 

[Wotthe Dickens]

One thing i find funny is the tolerance of so many people for bugs, even during what is touted as a "PLAYABLE NOW" alpha, whereas if you look at the general gaming population through the lens of Steam discussions or forums and see people rage quitting and venting over much more trivial bugs than people experience in SC.

All you have to do is browse these forums, the recent colonization update threads for example, with people raging about shadows, anti-aliasing, issues with the FC bartenders, despite not even being the topic of the thread, saying FD should fix those before adding colonization.

I suspect part if it, at least in relation is to SC, is the difference between those who are extremely patient with CIG and can handle the decade of non-release, bugginess, and really are fine with treating it like a very extended alpha, and therefore accept the bugs, vs those who bought in due to the marketing and "PLAYABLE NOW" guff, and expect a somewhat "PLAYABLE NOW" game experience.

If I had been stupid enough to give Crobbers money all those years ago, I'm pretty sure i would not have subjected myself to many hours of play, dealing with the bugs, just to experience the alpha. I'd let it rot in my gaming library until it reached the point where "PLAYABLE NOW" was a reality rather than a meme, a 1.0 gold release, assuming that ever happened. Got better things to do with my gaming time than put up with buginess that ruins the experience or, as Mole noted, work around those bugs.

For all its issues, ED rarely is ever in a state where any particular bug affects my enjoyment to the point where I put it down. Occasionally, after a major update, seeing bugs, i'll give it a few days for a patch to fix what needs fixing, that's about it.

It’s an interesting one. (And funny for sure!)
It’s what becomes normal I think.
Humans are amazingly adaptable, and simply adjust to new normals pretty quick.
When I wore my teaching hat, I got my students to create some installation art in Second Life, many years ago at its height- I of course then had to spend some time there to figure out what the hell they were doing, and that was a buggy laggy mess but it was amazing how the environment become just a different real place. My brain accepted it, warts and all just as a different place. I suspect it’s easier with other people around, as the social aspect aids this.
And in SC’s case, with it lacking any real game play loops, the bugs are actually the challenges that people adapt to and subconsciously find rewarding! (Maybe)

 

[Factabulous]

SC fans aren't that strange - just compare to car fans.

Many Tesla owners take to youtube to point at their cars which fail after 5 miles / have unusable high tech rear-view mirrors, and can't be left out in the rain or they rust. They then say how much they love their Tesla and wouldn't switch to another brand.

Classic Car buffs are much the same - they'll drive about in their slow, polluting cars that break down all the time, but will then continue to drive and polish them and tell interminable stories about that time they broke down on the A1 and had some minor adventure to get it home.

There was a guy at work who bought himself one of those small run mini-supercars they make in sheds in Surrey a few years back. First trip he took he decided to travel through Europe - and of course it split its fuel tank driving over the alps, was completely undriveable and he needed to be rescued (because all these expensive cars come with comprehensive rescue insurance for some reason). He kept the car.

Of course in all three cases most people would sell the damn car - because they want it for moving around and 'being a car'. But for fans the 'getting places' isn't the point.

 

[Mole HD]

SC fans aren't that strange - just compare to car fans.

Many Tesla owners take to youtube to point at their cars which fail after 5 miles / have unusable high tech rear-view mirrors, and can't be left out in the rain or they rust. They then say how much they love their Tesla and wouldn't switch to another brand.

Classic Car buffs are much the same - they'll drive about in their slow, polluting cars that break down all the time, but will then continue to drive and polish them and tell interminable stories about that time they broke down on the A1 and had some minor adventure to get it home.

There was a guy at work who bought himself on of those small run mini-supercars they make in sheds in Surrey a few years back. First trip he took he decided to travel through Europe - and of course it split its fuel tank driving over the alps, was completely undriveable and he needed to be rescued (because all these expensive cars come with comprehensive rescue insurance for some reason). He kept the car.

Of course in all three cases most people would sell the damn car - because they want it for moving around and 'being a car'. But for fans the 'getting places' isn't the point.

I always related SC backers to HOG members...the Harley Owners Group. I was given a lifetime membership to HOG when I bought my first Harley. You get a fancy black and gold membership card which gives you exactly zero benefits or discount on anything, especially branded merchandise or Harley bits...with the only exception of being offered a complementary coffee and donut if you ever happen to visit a Harley dealership.

To help you understand a bit about HOG and it's members, they're not real bikers per se, since very few of them can maintain or repair their own bikes. You know the type, the ones who'll book their pride and joy into an official dealership to have the tyre pressures checked... They're more of a middle class rotary club who just happen to buy an expensive motorbike to play with on dry and sunny weekends instead of a jetski...and boy, after dealing with that shower of Hooray Henry's the once or twice I ever turned up to one of their meets, it was like a deja vu homecoming when I first had the misfortune of dealing with SC's concierge membership.

Strangely enough... and besides the FOMO marketing emails I still get every other week trying to sell me some new and fashionable variant of the same merchandise or motorbike... I was unceremoniously banned from showing up at the local Dunedin HOG chapter meets a few times for the 'unwarranted heckling and abuse of other members' (as it said in the email)...unfortunately similar to my time as a concierge backer for SC

In all the years of owning a Harley or three...I've only ever bought and worn one (admittedly rare) Harley-Davidson® dealership official merchandise T-shirt

Spoiler: The badge says it all

 

[VR Golgot]

the bugs are actually the challenges that people adapt to and subconsciously find rewarding! (Maybe)

This is definitely true for a subset. And it gets tangled up in the 'seeing the sausage made' aspect of SC too. (For the guys who see the bugs as just stepping stones on the road to release, the adventure of working around them is almost proof of progress. A visceral engagement with development )

Also, it genuinely can be part of the sandbox. People tractor-beaming incapacitated pals back onto wind-swept mid-air ships. Inserting drugs into a keycard dispenser to see if that fixes it, etc. It's a rich bonus strand of content

 

[rootsrat]

I have to like your posts TNT, as you and Rootsrat show, people can get StarCitizent to work, and in a pretty way, and with some ‘unique’ features, but Rootsrat at least caveats that he found it boring and bug-ridden. Do you feel it’s been worth the almost billion dollars and 12 years to get here?
And do you think it’s possible to deliver the dream that CR has promised?
What do you make of all the criticism here?

For the record my attitude to Star Citizen is 100% satirical, I was never one of the "faithfuls" - I got a key for this game from an AMD card from a friend and then melted whatever the started ship was in that package into Cutlass Black. Overall cost was about 15 GBP

I have no emotional investment, I didn't know who Chris Roberts was until made aware of Star Citizen after Elite Dangerous came out. I was aware of the games he's made of course from back in a day, but didn't have a clue they were made by him.

I log in every few months for a session or two and in 99% is a massive waste of my precious time, but at least it makes me laugh from all the ridiculous bugs and - frankly absurd at this stage - state this project is in. I refuse to call SC a "game".

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

www.twitch.tv

(BLINKING LIGHT WARNING FOR THIS ONE!!!)

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

www.twitch.tv

https://www.twitch.tv/roots_rat/clip/CrypticFragileGnatTinyFace-sXYIekc2cXv_sSqA

Twitch

Twitch is the world's leading video platform and community for gamers.

www.twitch.tv

Saying all that - when it actually works (that 1% of the time), it's actually pretty fun! I would love to see it become an actual game, but I know it never will be one. Shame really, as I can definitely see myself becoming a no-lifer to it.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Today on Spectrum.

Just lost for words. - Star Citizen Spectrum

Yesterday, tried the Phase 2 missions (spawned in from a bed log above Monox). Flew down to the planet and fell through it after 5 minutes. Total gameplay time before critical failure - 15 minutes....

robertsspaceindustries.com

Someone in comments brings up its not close to 1 billion, according to CR's 5-1 calculation, its now 3 billion or so.

Bug reporting a waste of time? Hmm... i feel the same for ED as well

Why report a game breaking problem to issue council if its just going to get archived with nothing done about it? - Star Citizen Spectrum

So as a background to this I downloaded the preview played it, all good no issues with crashing personally, i then update to the 4.0.1 and now my game crashes on launch, gets past the waiting for...

robertsspaceindustries.com

AI not good?

No, the AI is not good, and it hasn't gotten better - it's gotten worse! - Star Citizen Spectrum

I keep seeing or hearing people praising the AI in 4.0 - "AI has gotten a lot better and more of a challenge" for example, which is blatantly false. AI has not gotten better - in fact, I would...

robertsspaceindustries.com

And... whatever the hell this is...

I'm your fan, Chris - Star Citizen Spectrum

Thank you for sharing your biggest dream with us and letting us play a part in bringing it to fruition. I was your fan long before I knew who you were and I still am!

robertsspaceindustries.com

By the way, watching Kira TV vid today and was shocked to discover Chronicles of Elyria is still somehow going and the Discord still has a small group of hardcore fans who somehow think the game is going to release one day. LOL

 

[Tifu]

By the way, watching Kira TV vid today and was shocked to discover Chronicles of Elyria is still somehow going and the Discord still has a small group of hardcore fans who somehow think the game is going to release one day. LOL

That rung a bell, I remember this Kickstarter game from way back when! Looked it up in Wikipedia and it sure looks like they borrowed a page from SC:

source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronicles_of_Elyria

 

[Skizomeuh]

Hold on, it ´s all good, mathematically:

View attachment 416664

StarLogic (tm)

I swear, I'm not sure it's a scam but man so many times the crooks driving this mess on the eternal roundabout of perfection make it hard to stay moderate.

 

[ECity]

Amazing fidelity:

 

[PiLhEaD]

As a bit of a drive-by-posting... I remain bemused at the 'gullibility' of the great General Public, despite all the history and evidence to affirm our herd tendency.

The example is that some years back, post Xplane and pre FS-202X, I saw a series of glowing YouTube recommendations for 'The Never Been Done Before Bestest Flight SIM Whatever 4.0'. And I was intrigued, and so I watched and investigated more, only to slowly realised that they were all (these seemingly independent glowing affadavits) reading from (more or less) the same script... ...at which point my Spidey-Sense went into overdrive.

The truism of “a fool and their money are easily separated” is too trite and glib, for a good salesmen can be utterly compelling, and dreams once dreamt are tough to dispell. And so, especially in the internot era, caveat emptor applies endlessly. And as granny PiLhEaD once said, being a grand Northen lass, 'If in doubt, do nowt!'

As for SQ42SCBDSSE... I have long ago given up giving one single jot of even faux concern... indeed from the second that I knew Cobblers was involved I rested back, smirked and shrugged... ..and here we are... years later... many years later... many many years.......

 

[Viajero]

I swear, I'm not sure it's a scam but man so many times the crooks driving this mess on the eternal roundabout of perfection make it hard to stay moderate.

What are you on about, this shows how CIG is so superior that even maths agree with them. An irrefutable proof that CIG will deliver all that has been promised. After all 2+3 is indeed 5. QED you fudster.

 

[Skizomeuh]

 

[VR Golgot]

An intriguing 4-star Glassdoor from a Lead Artist. Which also has some damning things to say on production practices and financial friction....

4/5

An evolving studio with clear indications finances are a concern​

Lead artist
Current employee, more than 5 years
Manchester, England

Recommend
CEO approval
Business outlook

Pros

• During it's Wilmslow years, it was a very chill and personal experience. The smaller size of the company lent to this.
• Project has great potential.
• Incredibly skilled teams with intelligent people.
• CEO has a vision and is participative in its development.
• Restructuring of the senior management was much needed and increases confidence towards the future of the product and company.
• The technology shows potential.
• Manchester office is new and has some nice perks, which are starting to dwindle due to cost cutting.
• Friendly teams.
• Manchester location is good.
• Managers have retained their human element. Most are family people, this might give them greater empathy.
• Pay feels appropriate.
• Depending on the project you are on, crunch is bad or crunch is very limited.

Cons

• Possibly over expanded during and after covid.
• Finances are clearly being re-assessed. Recent high profile layoffs and cut backs.
• With its expansion it is heading towards a more corporate setting, the cosy feeling from the old days is waning.
• There is a feeling HR are monitoring more heavily.
• Office policy has dictated 4 days in office, 1 day wfh, should be more wfh. I agree in office collaboration is beneficial, but so is a happier employee.
• CEO micro manages the project and could ease the foot off the gas on details.
• Design teams are more effective in recent times, but their numbers are lacking.
• Bonuses have been missing in recent years.
• Hiring freeze for 2 years except for teams in the most need.
• Cut backs on spending, but the company has clearly spent millions on studio outfitting, and continues to do so. It's an inconvenient truth with no excuse.
• The company is great, yet there is a feeling we could be part of the industry downturn.
• Leadership, Director level, can feel chaotic, improvements feel like they are being made.
• Chaotic design in recent years wastes time and money on inevitable rework.
• Basic gameplay loops and features will do, everything is overly complex in its initial implementation. We can add complexity later!
• Simple gameplay that has been in games from decades ago feels overly complex to implement.

Advice to Management
I don't have eyes on the company finances, but it doesn't take a Sherlock to deduce the company has financial concerns.

Halt on office spending, if more cutbacks are to occur, there will be more resentment. The wool can't be pulled over everyone's eyes, the optics of this are awful.

Be honest about our future and support those who support the company.

Bolster the Level Design teams, enable them to lead & blockout mandates.

Ensure levels are signed off as playable in whitebox, with formal gameplay reviews and fun to play, before dev teams roll on. The rush through this stage is real by senior management and production. Quit handwaving this crucial stage! Production should enforce this.

So much time and money must be wasted with re-work and half baked ideas.

Stabilise the PU. Halt the push for content and focus on the backlog of issues. That includes code! Content can't address core issues with programming, we are a band aid.