Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

sovapid

sovapid
StuartGT said:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7ajZv5oil4


854r9qfsddze1.png
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oh no 😢


all i have been playing lately is eve
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
The Monthly Report is here, and the progress is historic!

“We are studying different economic models from history and fiction to get a better impression of how the economy will feel when it is fully fledged.” Economy Team

“Hopefully some of these [missing missions] will be in a good enough state for a release soon, but we are committed to the quality and stability of the missions.” Mission Design

TLDR: New weapon lowering technology, video feeds reworked again, everyone hates Subsumption, new flight model and combat AI still very new, teleportation kludges, mo' ships, and mo' mocap...

AI (Content)​

AI Content spent the majority of April preparing the release of Alpha 4.1.1, including the communications that players can now receive from mission givers. Although seemingly straightforward, the underlying tech required to implement this within the various connected systems was highly complicated.
+

AI Content also continued to refine NPC behavior packs and prototype lines for Design to incorporate into future mission events. Once refined, these scripts will be approved for capture. [more mocap]

AI (Features)​

Last month, AI Features focused on refining the juvenile valakkar. Improvements included changes to its idle roam behavior and navigation mesh to reduce the likelihood of it getting stuck.
+
Now, values can be set up in DataForge (general purpose data editing tool) and passed to Subsumption (behavior scripting engine). Previously, these values would be set up in Subsumption itself, meaning that it was hard for the designers to adjust the setup and create variations. [Still trying to get the hell out of Subsumption]
+
For Human combat AI, focus was on first reactions and escalation, including resolving bugs with the new system [...][Another new AI system?]
+
[...] while new prototype technology was implemented to lower weapons when friendly fire is detected.

AI (Game Intelligence Development Team)​

In April, the Game Intelligence Development (GID) team worked on various StarScript improvements, including allowing users to ‘right click’ task-extension links
+
Finally, the team continued their research discussions on the ‘mission system.’

AI (Tech)​

Improvements were made to cover generation too, such as excluding door entities from the cover-generation process

Art (Ships)​

In the EU, the team focused on closing out tasks for Invictus Launch Week, including three new ships planned for release at the event.

Core Gameplay​

Recent tasks following feedback included investigating new issues with quantum travel and reoccurring problems with freight elevators, ship claiming, and inventory flow.

[...] much of the work done for Squadron 42 will also be relevant to Star Citizen, so these teams work across both projects.

Several new game modes were added to allow them to test the new flight model in the future. [New... flight... model...]

April’s work included [...] disabling the ‘influence signature’ system to improve it to better serve the intended gameplay.

Economy​

“We are studying different economic models from history and fiction to get a better impression of how the economy will feel when it is fully fledged.” Economy Team

Mission Design​

With most of their recent fundamental tech work complete, the team focused on improving mission quality. For example, players in the PTU will see the return of comms notifications. While the previous system (used for XenoThreat and Siege of Orison) was difficult to update and maintain, it’s now a lot easier to implement content into the game.
+
In April, a few of the designers began fixing missions that missed the Alpha 4.0 release.
“Hopefully some of these will be in a good enough state for a release soon, but we are committed to the quality and stability of the missions.” Mission Design

Narrative​

Looking ahead, the team prepared for their next capture session

Online Technology​

The Network Team delivered the ‘entity teleport’ feature, which is used to move replicated entities that may or may not be streamed out. This enables systems, like respawn, to directly reparent a player to a medical bed without needing to wait for it to stream in, streamlining and simplifying the respawn process. [Teleporting kludge fixes? Norty! ;)]
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
For anyone who likes seeing vociferous white knights twisting in the wind, here's one who now feels their $8500 outlay may have been slightly ill advised...

S1rmunchalot said:
The OP is correct. Please note the title of that article "Multiple Game Package Clarification". It is not, and was not, described as 'a hoped for' feature at some future date' it was a core pillar of the planned shipped game that directly affected how products were sold in the RSI store as much as any other core tech feature, in fact, server meshing was not an original core tech feature because full planetary landings and free roam of planets / moons was not an original core tech feature of the planned commercial release. The reason that advisory post was made was because people were asking why CIG was selling more than one game access package to accounts. It was CIG that told everyone you WILL be able to play multiple characters with the same sign-in credentials in a game session, and you need to have multiple game packages on your account to be able to take advantage of that coming feature.

The reason they have dropped this core tech feature for a commercial release version 1.0 is obvious, it was a far greater challenge than anticipated once server meshing was introduced. Subsumption logic runs on game servers currently, and not very well with Server Object Container Streaming which is why NPC's stand on chairs and why NPC's are limited to one location in the game, they cannot cross server / server boundaries without defaulting to an idle state in a meshed game server environment. This is exactly what an 'always running' Quantum Simulation remote from game servers was designed for. Running Subsumption logic on a remote system is one thing, plugging the output of that into a live environment with physicalised NPC's is quite another. There is no facility in the Quantum Simulation to allow NPC's to talk for example and as TZ said, all the physical interactions with game usables were stripped out of the Quantum Simulation. Subsumption logic was never designed to be started, stopped, restarted, stopped, restarted in CryEngine.

What es us off is not just that hireable NPC's will not be a feature of the commercial release (many games much older have a follower capability) it's because they announced that decision with no prior discussion on the matter and have not entered into any discussion of it since that announcement - because people paid real money for that feature development by purchasing extra game packages on their accounts based upon the advice from CIG. We have just as much right to be ed off as anyone who purchased a ship that won't be in a 1.0 release (and there are plenty of those!) the difference being that with a non-released ship you have the option to have a loaner replacement or you can melt or upgrade a ship, there is no replacement feature for purchased hireable NPC's or alternate playable characters with the same sign-in credentials in the same game instance, you have only one option, exchange your extra game packages for store credits to buy more ships.

After a commercial release we are not 'backers' of a game in progress anymore, we are purchasers of a released game not crowd funding research and development of game design features and I did not give $8,500+ for a game project with no more playable features than I could have bought for $60, CIG told us in that clarification post you need to buy multiple game packages on the same account to be able to play multiple characters in the same game session. I do not need or want Jared Huckaby to explain the monumental technical challenge it involves, I do need Chris Roberts to explain why a commercial release of Star Citizen without a planned core feature was deemed necessary.

Base building space stations was ruled out as a feature by Chris Roberts many years ago, no-one expected it to be part of a final commercial release version, no-one even asked for a ship building capability as far as I can recall. There would be nothing to stop them charging money for an expanded feature set that was originally planned, and publicly touted as a core feature for the game's commercial release. Who would they deem it necessary or prudent to issue that expanded post-commercial release feature to? Would they have a limit to an account balance, would it go to everyone who bought even the cheapest base game package prior to commercial release? Why spend money and developer time to develop a Quantum Simulation or DNA tech, there are much easier ways to simulate a vibrant dynamic economy and there is no need to invent DNA tech for static based NPC's. Where is that 'Living Breathing Universe' full of unique characters to interact with running all around the game living their own lives? They haven't even discussed it publicly.

Hireable NPC's were not just about multi-crew ships, we were supposed to be able to interact with them and hire them on an individual basis to do anything from guarding your bases to carrying your bags. A diverse autonomous independently goal seeking AI population has been a core feature of Star Citizen since day one.

At minimum we need, and deserve, and have the right to demand a clarification for the clarification.

This post has been edited by Moderation and the user has been notified
Click to expand...
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
VR Golgot said:
The Monthly Report is here, and the progress is historic!

“We are studying different economic models from history and fiction to get a better impression of how the economy will feel when it is fully fledged.” Economy Team

“Hopefully some of these [missing missions] will be in a good enough state for a release soon, but we are committed to the quality and stability of the missions.” Mission Design

TLDR: New weapon lowering technology, video feeds reworked again, everyone hates Subsumption, new flight model and combat AI still very new, teleportation kludges, mo' ships, and mo' mocap...

AI (Content)​

AI Content spent the majority of April preparing the release of Alpha 4.1.1, including the communications that players can now receive from mission givers. Although seemingly straightforward, the underlying tech required to implement this within the various connected systems was highly complicated.
+

AI Content also continued to refine NPC behavior packs and prototype lines for Design to incorporate into future mission events. Once refined, these scripts will be approved for capture. [more mocap]

AI (Features)​

Last month, AI Features focused on refining the juvenile valakkar. Improvements included changes to its idle roam behavior and navigation mesh to reduce the likelihood of it getting stuck.
+
Now, values can be set up in DataForge (general purpose data editing tool) and passed to Subsumption (behavior scripting engine). Previously, these values would be set up in Subsumption itself, meaning that it was hard for the designers to adjust the setup and create variations. [Still trying to get the hell out of Subsumption]
+
For Human combat AI, focus was on first reactions and escalation, including resolving bugs with the new system [...][Another new AI system?]
+
[...] while new prototype technology was implemented to lower weapons when friendly fire is detected.

AI (Game Intelligence Development Team)​

In April, the Game Intelligence Development (GID) team worked on various StarScript improvements, including allowing users to ‘right click’ task-extension links
+
Finally, the team continued their research discussions on the ‘mission system.’

AI (Tech)​

Improvements were made to cover generation too, such as excluding door entities from the cover-generation process

Art (Ships)​

In the EU, the team focused on closing out tasks for Invictus Launch Week, including three new ships planned for release at the event.

Core Gameplay​

Recent tasks following feedback included investigating new issues with quantum travel and reoccurring problems with freight elevators, ship claiming, and inventory flow.

[...] much of the work done for Squadron 42 will also be relevant to Star Citizen, so these teams work across both projects.

Several new game modes were added to allow them to test the new flight model in the future. [New... flight... model...]

April’s work included [...] disabling the ‘influence signature’ system to improve it to better serve the intended gameplay.

Economy​

“We are studying different economic models from history and fiction to get a better impression of how the economy will feel when it is fully fledged.” Economy Team

Mission Design​

With most of their recent fundamental tech work complete, the team focused on improving mission quality. For example, players in the PTU will see the return of comms notifications. While the previous system (used for XenoThreat and Siege of Orison) was difficult to update and maintain, it’s now a lot easier to implement content into the game.
+
In April, a few of the designers began fixing missions that missed the Alpha 4.0 release.
“Hopefully some of these will be in a good enough state for a release soon, but we are committed to the quality and stability of the missions.” Mission Design

Narrative​

Looking ahead, the team prepared for their next capture session

Online Technology​

The Network Team delivered the ‘entity teleport’ feature, which is used to move replicated entities that may or may not be streamed out. This enables systems, like respawn, to directly reparent a player to a medical bed without needing to wait for it to stream in, streamlining and simplifying the respawn process. [Teleporting kludge fixes? Norty! ;)]
Click to expand...

“We are studying different economic models from history and fiction to get a better impression of how the economy will feel when it is fully fledged.” Economy Team
Click to expand...

13 years later.
 

PiLhEaD

PiLhEaD
VR Golgot said:
It seems that the reputation system has gone done a flip-flop since it's 1.0 Citcon reveal.

Source: https://youtu.be/QqefOTSmV64?si=DsGQ3JDwnKnEStUG&t=25s


In a way that has tilted the laid back Tomato more towards To-meh-to.

(I did not really watch, just noted the drama thread ;))

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1kfz5x3/from_space_tomato_a_major_change_to_reputation_is
Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1kfz5x3/from_space_tomato_a_major_change_to_reputation_is/
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Unfactoring? Defactoring? Never been undone before?
 

Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
VR Golgot said:
For anyone who likes seeing vociferous white knights twisting in the wind, here's one who now feels their $8500 outlay may have been slightly ill advised...
Click to expand...
After a commercial release we are not 'backers' of a game in progress anymore, we are purchasers of a released game not crowd funding research and development of game design features and I did not give $8,500+ for a game project with no more playable features than I could have bought for $60.
Click to expand...
So close to realizing the truth!

He is right of course in that after a game is released it stops having any of the original crowdfunded related commitments or obligations.

He still does not seem to realize, though, that Star Citizen was commercially released when it released in Early Access back in 2016-2017. He is also wrong in that even already commercially released games (such as Elite, NMS or Star Citizen) often do not stop development progress. Progress or ongoing development is not a prerrogative of crowdfunded projects only.

The difference with a crowd funded setting (in addition to the obvious accounting practice differences) is that the sellers of a commercially released product (early access or not) cease to have any of the obligations and committments (a.k.a. "promises", and funds spend limitations) a crowdfunded project has. The product is just sold in whatever state it is, the seller can use the money in whatever he wants and has no more obligations to improve or add to the game. If he does, great, but he does not have to anymore.
 
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Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
On the topic of this.. iam curious on to what will happen with the chat. I was under the impression one day we will switch to voice comms only or only local chat for exactly these reasons.
Click to expand...

What? CIG plan to force voice chat one day for comms between players? Or do they mean voice chat or direct text chat? Voice only would be insane (so i wouldn't put it past CIG), as i'm sure there are many players like myself who can't use voice most of the time due to wife glaring at me when i start voice chatting online.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Loads of threads about ship scanning and naming at the moment.

As I understand, to know who someone is you need to scan them with a scanner that isn't very good and it only reveals their serial number, not the ship name (which they don't have anyway?) or the pilot's name.

Loads of people defending CIG on this.

Meanwhile, in ED, target a ship, get its name immediately, keep targetted for a few seconds, get the CMDR's name and wanted status.
 

VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Agony_Aunt said:
Loads of threads about ship scanning and naming at the moment.

As I understand, to know who someone is you need to scan them with a scanner that isn't very good and it only reveals their serial number, not the ship name (which they don't have anyway?) or the pilot's name.

Loads of people defending CIG on this.

Meanwhile, in ED, target a ship, get its name immediately, keep targetted for a few seconds, get the CMDR's name and wanted status.
Click to expand...

From what I can gather, it basically is the ED system. (Full scan reveals name).

Going by Twitch, it isn't working that reliably yet tho ;)
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
VR Golgot said:
From what I can gather, it basically is the ED system. (Full scan reveals name).

Going by Twitch, it isn't working that reliably yet tho ;)
Click to expand...

Not owner/pilot name, because lots defending the decision saying its part of the whole "NPCs will be indistinguishable from players" thing.
 
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