And the need to prove "haters" wrong.
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
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Sunk cost fallacy!
Sunk cost fallacy
Definition of sunk cost fallacy, a key concept in behavioral economics.
www.behavioraleconomics.com
Basically the more money people invest the more they have to lose if it fails, so they keep investing hoping that it won't fail.
The thing with that is, the 'haters' are invariably proven to be consistently correct
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If you haven't already, I'd suggest leafing through this series of videos concerning SC. One of the hardest hitting and extremely interesting viewpoints into the project and Ci¬G as a wholeSunk cost fallacy!
Sunk cost fallacy
Definition of sunk cost fallacy, a key concept in behavioral economics.
Basically the more money people invest the more they have to lose if it fails, so they keep investing hoping that it won't fail.
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Is Chris making a world where the coffee cup persists forever, but the game disappears?
I'm worried
Seriously though, the old iCache thing has been bugging me. What real fricking benefit is there to having items persist to that degree? Compared to the costs?
Like, sure, I can envision some random emergent scenarios where it'd be cute to have that, and there'd be minor gameplay implications: Stumbling across someone's abandoned temporary camp. Decorating a cave with trophies. Leaving a secret 'enter the base from this side' symbol for your friend in the sand... (We all know it'd be a dong designed from water bottles, but it's the artisan gameplay that counts).
But...
Chris is still pinning his signature swish to technical challenges that are often extraneous with minor benefits (combined first/third character model), or at worst active impediments to the game's described goals. His focus is all over the place, and frequently on baffling things.
If you want to make the best-looking large-scale space MMO, for example, that's absolutely fine. Focus on that. Make the sacrifices you need to make to pursue that aim and make it a reality. If you want to make the most interactive large-scale space MMO, that's fine too. Make your sacrifices elsewhere, free up that headroom, scatter your floor with toys and engage in emergent NPC chat at the urinals. If you want to make the most populated large-scale space MMO... forget about the fricking cutlery
But he just wants everything. It's such overt kid-in-a-candy store stuff.
Here we are, 8 years since Kickstarter, and the guru is still lost in a forest of his own imaginings. Placing coffee cups...
I'm worried
Seriously though, the old iCache thing has been bugging me. What real fricking benefit is there to having items persist to that degree? Compared to the costs?
Like, sure, I can envision some random emergent scenarios where it'd be cute to have that, and there'd be minor gameplay implications: Stumbling across someone's abandoned temporary camp. Decorating a cave with trophies. Leaving a secret 'enter the base from this side' symbol for your friend in the sand... (We all know it'd be a dong designed from water bottles, but it's the artisan gameplay that counts
).But...
- A) Would those aspects really see a huge amount of use, or help underpin the more robust, planned, gameplay mechanics? Nope, probably not...
- B) Would those aspects make designing & running the planned 100k+ player shard experience, with twitch tier action, & single-player tier details, that much harder to implement successfully? Yep, almost certainly...
Chris is still pinning his signature swish to technical challenges that are often extraneous with minor benefits (combined first/third character model), or at worst active impediments to the game's described goals. His focus is all over the place, and frequently on baffling things.
If you want to make the best-looking large-scale space MMO, for example, that's absolutely fine. Focus on that. Make the sacrifices you need to make to pursue that aim and make it a reality. If you want to make the most interactive large-scale space MMO, that's fine too. Make your sacrifices elsewhere, free up that headroom, scatter your floor with toys and engage in emergent NPC chat at the urinals. If you want to make the most populated large-scale space MMO... forget about the fricking cutlery
But he just wants everything. It's such overt kid-in-a-candy store stuff.
Here we are, 8 years since Kickstarter, and the guru is still lost in a forest of his own imaginings. Placing coffee cups...
Thing is I'm not really a hater. I backed the thing all those years ago. I'd like to get a game out of it eventually.
There are things I think they've done well. Flying down to a planet and landing then getting out of the ship in extreme weather is cool.
But I can't help being bemused by the endless bugs and lack of real progress
There are things I think they've done well. Flying down to a planet and landing then getting out of the ship in extreme weather is cool.
But I can't help being bemused by the endless bugs and lack of real progress
I had a wrist slap on here for posting some 'artistic' impressions I created in the snow playing RDR2...not going thereIs Chris making a world where the coffee cup persists forever, but the game disappears?
I'm worried
Seriously though, the old iCache thing has been bugging me. What real fricking benefit is there to having items persist to that degree? Compared to the costs?
Like, sure, I can envision some random emergent scenarios where it'd be cute to have that, and there'd be minor gameplay implications: Stumbling across someone's abandoned temporary camp. Decorating a cave with trophies. Leaving a secret 'enter the base from this side' symbol for your friend in the sand... (We all know it'd be a dong designed from water bottles, but it's the artisan gameplay that counts
But...
- A) Would those aspects really see a huge amount of use, or help underpin the more robust, planned, gameplay mechanics? Nope, probably not...
- B) Would those aspects make designing & running the planned 100k+ player shard experience, with twitch tier action, & single-player tier details, that much harder to implement successfully? Yep, almost certainly...
Chris is still pinning his signature swish to technical challenges that are often extraneous with minor benefits (combined first/third character model), or at worst active impediments to the game's described goals. His focus is all over the place, and frequently on baffling things.
If you want to make the best-looking large-scale space MMO, for example, that's absolutely fine. Focus on that. Make the sacrifices you need to make to pursue that aim and make it a reality. If you want to make the most interactive large-scale space MMO, that's fine too. Make your sacrifices elsewhere, free up that headroom, scatter your floor with toys and engage in emergent NPC chat at the urinals. If you want to make the most populated large-scale space MMO... forget about the fricking cutlery
But he just wants everything. It's such overt kid-in-a-candy store stuff.
Here we are, 8 years since Kickstarter, and the guru is still lost in a forest of his own imaginings. Placing coffee cups...
As for the remainder of the post, exactly on point...both in the imagery of CR with his obsessive and somewhat childish coffee cup fixation as well as his completely inept 'creative' buffoonery concerning SC.
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Is Chris making a world where the coffee cup persists forever, but the game disappears?
I'm worried
Seriously though, the old iCache thing has been bugging me. What real fricking benefit is there to having items persist to that degree? Compared to the costs?
Elder Scrolls have done this since Morrowind (2002). That also was done in 2d by Ultima VII (1992) and 3d by Ultima Underworld (1992). There's something pretty neat to finding everything as it was set. In UU for example, I'd put down rocks/garbage on the ground to make arrows for visual navigation markers. U7 and TES allowed you to extensively decorate houses with the million of props available. And if you bumped into a bookshelf and made the books fall in Morrowind, you'd find them still on the ground when coming back. All those random items on the ground or tables etc tell a story. And in a single player game, you know it because it's your story, so it's likely to resonate. It might be costly, but it does add something. I remember some guy having turned his Oblivion (I think, but maybe that was Morrowind or Skyrim) house into a psycho manor, filled with all the heads of the NPCs he murdered... Whether the benefit is worth the cost in a mmo that already can't even keep spaceships above a planetary surface is another question obviously. But yeah, fundamentally, item persistence is cool. TES housing wouldn't feel the same without it.
I remember leaving items in games that persisted once you left the location as far back as Avalon in 1984 - which also had inertia and gravity
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
Is Chris making a world where the coffee cup persists forever, but the game disappears?
I'm worried
Seriously though, the old iCache thing has been bugging me. What real fricking benefit is there to having items persist to that degree? Compared to the costs?
Like, sure, I can envision some random emergent scenarios where it'd be cute to have that, and there'd be minor gameplay implications: Stumbling across someone's abandoned temporary camp. Decorating a cave with trophies. Leaving a secret 'enter the base from this side' symbol for your friend in the sand... (We all know it'd be a dong designed from water bottles, but it's the artisan gameplay that counts
But...
- A) Would those aspects really see a huge amount of use, or help underpin the more robust, planned, gameplay mechanics? Nope, probably not...
- B) Would those aspects make designing & running the planned 100k+ player shard experience, with twitch tier action, & single-player tier details, that much harder to implement successfully? Yep, almost certainly...
Chris is still pinning his signature swish to technical challenges that are often extraneous with minor benefits (combined first/third character model), or at worst active impediments to the game's described goals. His focus is all over the place, and frequently on baffling things.
If you want to make the best-looking large-scale space MMO, for example, that's absolutely fine. Focus on that. Make the sacrifices you need to make to pursue that aim and make it a reality. If you want to make the most interactive large-scale space MMO, that's fine too. Make your sacrifices elsewhere, free up that headroom, scatter your floor with toys and engage in emergent NPC chat at the urinals. If you want to make the most populated large-scale space MMO... forget about the fricking cutlery
But he just wants everything. It's such overt kid-in-a-candy store stuff.
Here we are, 8 years since Kickstarter, and the guru is still lost in a forest of his own imaginings. Placing coffee cups...
You have already thought about it more than CIG probably has. I would not take it too seriously, in addition to iCache another key miracle word now is also "Server Meshing" but before that the magic network tech was SSOCS, and before that OCS and before that Network Bind Culling, and even before that it was Serialized Variables. All of them were supposed to bring the development to a point where the floodgates of performance and concurrency would open. Some minor progress here or there but no miracle breakthrough yet though.
And there is basically no need to stop these series of miracle terms. I don´t doubt all those probably have an element of actual truth behind their purpose but their flamboyant names and hyped up descriptors are there primarily to keep backer´s hopes up and offer something to hang onto among all the mediocrity. As long as funding keeps coming in all CIG needs to do is keep inventing whatever term they think backers may fall for at the time they need.
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I remember leaving items in games that persisted once you left the location as far back as Avalon in 1984 - which also had inertia and gravity
Oh I'm sure there's older, never played Avalon. I was just mentioned the ones I personally remember doing it. They're the oldest I played that did this for every single item. Only exception being dead bodies which disappeared over time (and in the case of Ultima 7, their contents like weapons/armours would actually remain on the ground).
For sure. I love that aspect in the Elder Scrolls / Fallout series. Tis great for world-building and leaving your personal mark. (And baffling shop-keepers
).But all of those are single-player games right? Where there are no networking aspects to consider in tracking a ton of physics objects, for a start. MMOs as rule tend to despawn objects. (And from the little I understand of it, for pretty reasonable reasons
)
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For sure. I love that aspect in the Elder Scrolls / Fallout series. Tis great for world-building and leaving your personal mark. (And baffling shop-keepers
But all of those are single-player games right? Where there are no networking aspects to consider in tracking a ton of physics objects, for a start.
MMOs as rule tend to despawn objects.
Couldn't tell for sure, but possible contenders for doing it in a mmo could be Ultima Online? Second Life?
I guess that is why there has been no Jesus patch.
Bitcoin isn't really anomaly, in fact it is quite nice representation of the fact that all kinds of money is essentially backed by faith. Money is valuable because people think it is valuable. Works same for bitcoin, USD, EUR, GOLD. Even gold itself is valuable because that faith. As a metal it has pretty few real uses, and it would have pretty few uses even if it was dirt cheap.
I've only played Second Life of those, but the way I recall it it didn't have classical physics objects in that sense. (Although the Havok engine was supposedly pretty good at that stuff). I seem to recall it had primarily: Fixed location objects, vehicle objects, 'hand held' items, and particles.
That said, loading the world with all that stuff until it ground to a halt pretty much was the game
60 clothing layers and 15fps. Take that SC
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A quick search suggests Ultima did have item despawning for its physics objects.
Most clever usage of object persistence is Arkane's Prey BTW. Wait... I'm sure I dropped this post-it here, not there... And there was only one last time I checked...
Slick for sure. But also very much the core game mechanic too. So it kinda makes sense that they focused their runtime on the fun time
If only they'd had Chris's broader, untrammelled vision instead