Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

Firkrayt

Firkrayt
Agony_Aunt said:
There you have it! Exploring your spaceship is exploration! CIG have done it again! Never been done before!
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What does the CRobber do, sitting on the white throne and looking at every tiny crack in the ceiling? He is exploring!
WC exploration, never been done before!!


P.S. I've delved into that link deeper. Had to check if it is not actually /r/refunds twice. Something big had died for that to stay on RSI:
Wizzball@Wizzball
Yesterday at 7:29 pm


https://robertsspaceindustries.com/...read/the-pledge-doesn-t-apply-to-sq42/3448338
CIG to judge during Crytek lawsuit:
"Oh no, of course 'the game' in the engine license contract was meant to include SC and SQ42! It's still totally one game! We totally always refer to both simply as 'the game', and this has never changed! Crytek now wanting two license fees for what is clearly just one game is just ludicrous!"

CIG to the community, a short time later:
"Oh no, of course 'the game' in the pledge only refers to SC! SQ42 is a totally different game! We never ever referred to both at once as 'the game', pfft, how stupid would that be!"


Here comes the fun thing:

Let's completely ignore the EULA, the actual legal agreement between CIG and us users, that clearly defines 'the game' as including SQ42 without limitation...
> Star Citizen and related modules, including without limitation, ‘Squadron 42’ (the “Game”)
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... and accept the narrative that 'the game' in The Pledge only ever referred exclusively to SC and everyone knew that.
So let's take it and replace 'the game' with 'only Star Citizen' and lets see what happens:
> We, the Star Citizen team at Cloud Imperium, hereby promise to deliver the game only Star Citizen as you expect
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If 'The Pledge' did not include SQ42 as 'the game', then SQ42 is also not the game we expect. So CIG, with massive priority, are now building not the game we expect?
> You, the tens of thousands of pledgers, have allowed us to cut out the big publisher and build the game only Star Citizen on our terms.
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So we have allowed them to cut out the publisher for Star Citizen, and Star Citizen only. Not SQ42. That means The Pledge now says that they pledge to use our backer money for SC, and only SC. Which they're however not doing. Which would be fraud.
You cannot just build SQ42 on your terms, CIG. We the community of course, unequivocally and without any misunderstanding, and as CR has now confirmed also him, always knew that 'the game' you could be developing on your own terms referred only to SC, not including SQ42. So noone ever never gave you permission to use our money to develop another game.  
> You will receive regular updates about the progress of the game only Star Citizen.
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Yeah, so no regular updates about the progress of SQ42. CIG never pledged that.
> We will build you the game only the Star Citizen you are dreaming about.
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So if The Pledge explicitly excluded SQ42 and this was/is obvious, this is the actual content. So why is CIG building SQ42? It isn't the game we expect and obviously never was, and it isn't part of the game we are actually dreaming about or ever was, and noone allowed CIG to cut out the big publisher on SQ42 to build SQ42 on their terms - it only ever was very specifically about SC...

I kinda get the feeling that this "interpretation" actually opens a much more massive can of worms than just a bag of communication mishaps...
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In this light, Crobber had actually admitted the scam.
 
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Navigare Necesse Est

Navigare Necesse Est
Tifu said:
I could be wrong of course but this year is different because the pandemic broke a lot of businesses, caused a tidal wave or unemployment, tanked the stock market etc..

We'd be very lucky if a war isn't triggered in some part of the world because governments and societies are all under extreme pressure.

The real trap is to think it'll be business as usual. It's a changed world and we won't be coming back to the old normal. Even CIG won't be immune because it's whales certainly aren't.
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Tanked the stock market? It's catched up since March.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Firkrayt said:
What does the CRobber do, sitting on the white throne and looking at every tiny crack in the ceiling? He is exploring!
WC exploration, never been done before!!


P.S. I've delved into that link deeper. Had to check if it is not actually /r/refunds twice. Something big had died for that to stay on RSI:


In this light, Crobber had actually admitted the scam.
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Its certainly an interesting interpretation and also mirrors how they sold separate narratives to the court and backers.
 

hairychris

hairychris
LittleAnt said:
I don't know how CIG intend to manage the max server cap and what this max capacity will be. Server meshing will be the mechanism that handle bubbles and it should have a max count of entities AND players preventing the bubble to be a slideshow. I have no info on what they plan to do when they exceed this capacity.
How ED manage overcapacity in a system ?
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Frontier asked the players to please stop breaking things! This was after, I think, the Distant Worlds expedition where abusing the friends & wings system to invite more people into the instance then recommended was used to get some really epic events filmed. And as Agony Aunt said, ED usually handles it so that by the time an excess amount of people are in an instance it gets split out.

ED also runs as a peer-to-peer network with tracking and ownership of objects being handled between the clients. The servers see far less traffic than SC which is more hub/spoke in design.

CIG have the problem that how CryEngine handles multiplayer is really inefficient, and have been trying to fix it for years. Not entirely successfully from what I can see.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
GORF on SA spitting facts in response to Mike getting all defensive when his wife starts explaining how things are.

Emi is the MVP of that long session, dropping straight talk non-stop like a champ. And then what happens? After grousing and ranting about Chris and CIG for half an hour, Twerk pivots 180 degrees in an eye blink and starts spewing defensive nonsense and historical revisionism like his old chump self, totally oblivious to his reversal.

Twerk, Mike, whatever you wanna call yourself, your wife is spot on and you’re dead wrong. She may be “on the periphery” (her words) but she sees plain as day what you only occasionally discern and keep forgetting.

And no, nobody in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 or 2016 bought into the project accepting upfront that delivery dates were meaningless, nor endorsing a blank check and infinite timeline for Chris to futz around to his heart’s content. If that was true then why did everyone — including you — get ed at no Squadron slice at CitCon 206? Why did everyone get surly over 2017 waiting a year longer than expected for Alpha 3.0? Why is “Answer the Call” just shorthand for more Chris marketing ? Why are backers ed about the AMA and the gaming world and gaming press laughing at Chris again?

Emi has it right. And her former supermarket coworkers had it right, too, even as you confuse your proximity to the project as enlightenment rather than desperate rationalizing. The irony is those gathered inside the Temple of Chris are the profane, and those outside of it the discerning and enlightened. It didn’t cost them a cent to see clearly what cost you thousands to miss.
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ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf
Meanwhile at Chris' new mansion project

"Hi I'm Chris Roberts, a few years ago I created the Wing Commander funded mansion Commander's ranch but I sold it when I got burnt out. Now I'm back with some money. In my old mansion I had a massive chess set, I want one of those again but this time it moves itself with never been done before chess AI..."

"Ok Chris, firstly me and the team want to talk about plans for the foundations..."

"CHESS SET FIRST... no compromise, then lets talk about an amazing idea I had for a beauful marble driveway, it'll make your pipeline easier once its done, you can get your trucks in much quicker. I've already got another contract team sourcing the high grade Italian marble I'm going to get painted with an exquisite motif. Would you mind keeping your guys off the drive until they're done?"

"Chris, we had a contract, you said you would work with us on the mansion project and treat us with respect"

"Oh? Oh??? I see. You thought the contract was regaring THIS mansion? lol"
 
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hairychris

hairychris
starman said:
Star Citizen switched to Lumberyard Engine https://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-switches-from-cryengine-to-amazons-lumberyard/
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Lumberyard is a fork of CryEngine.

EDIT:

CIG's StarEngine was a fork of a different release of CryEngine, now apparently moved across to the Lumberyard development path (but screenshots taken after this supposedly happened appeared to still be using CryEngine conventions so who knows).

My point still stands.

ANOTHER EDIT:

Lumberyard doesn't address the multiplayer/network issues that CIG have attempted to fix.
 
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starman

starman
Skizomeuh said:
Allegedly. Though where does this mean LY is any better - or should I say more suited for SC's needs - than the CryEngine version it's based on? Neither SC performances on the topic since, nor other LY powered games (if any, as Crucible is canned and New World is far from release)
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If the mighty Chris Roberts considers Lumberyard to be the engine of choice then who is to argue with that.
 

Tippis

Tippis
starman said:
Star Citizen switched to Lumberyard Engine https://www.pcgamer.com/star-citizen-switches-from-cryengine-to-amazons-lumberyard/
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No. They switched to a different license, but the engine is still the same — it's still CryEngine (and a very old and outdated version of it at that).

starman said:
If the mighty Chris Roberts considers Lumberyard to be the engine of choice then who is to argue with that.
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Reality. And the requirements of the project.
Not to mention that CR didn't consider LY to be the engine of choice — he just preferred that as a licensing option because Crytek was making noises about their not fulfilling the license agreement for the engine he chose and ultimately chose not to use the actual Lumberyard engine itself.
 
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Vetinari

V
Agony_Aunt said:
Man, this argument between Mike and his missues is funny as hell.
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It is the best bit of the video, she has it spot on and knows he cant see it.

Agony_Aunt said:
This i feel would be a great way to go with multicrew in Elite Dangerous and remove that idiotic telepresence lore.
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Telepresence / remote control - doesnt really matter what its called does it, its the same effect, another figure in the cockpit controlled across vast distances? RC means it wouldnt look like your own avatar necessarily though. I dont care either way but some might.

Dunno if youve seen Dr Who, but there was an episode where 'wax' or 'plastic' dummies / clones were made and controlled by the humans, looked exactly like them but didnt feel pain....apparently. I always that would work, a 3D printed plastic human you controlled...and if it dies it solves that issue, just reprint another like the fighter, its a cop out but if all FPS was done this way there would be no death of he Cmdr, just the RC waxwork and all their belongings they carried would drop where they died to be picked up by the enemy.

Navigare Necesse Est said:
Tanked the stock market? It's catched up since March.
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Side issue but I just re-mortgaged. 2 Year deal % rate was Higher than the 3 Year deal which was higher than the 5 Year deal. Normally its the other way round....suggests the Banks are expecting negative commercial interest rates at least. As in they get charged a % by Govt for having money on account and not lent out to grease the economy. Banks dont think the next 5 years will be healthy....atm anyway with current policies around the world.

Investors are moving to Gold and Metals, traditionally a sign of 'fear' or wariness or cautiousness, take the steady income rather than ride the stock market when think the ride will be too wild and when it stops you wont know what you're holding is worth anything....stick it in Metals instead.

But Hobbies and Games are an emotional decision, and people always find a way to justify an an motional decision, so $100 on a game or a new fishing rod can still be justfied.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
starman said:
If the mighty Chris Roberts considers Lumberyard to be the engine of choice then who is to argue with that.
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He chose what he saw as the best option at the time. Other engines were of questionable use and for whatever reason he didn't want to make his own engine. That latter is probably because with CryEngine he could start banging out assets straight away and pretend the demo they made was actually in-game footage.

If they could have made the game they sold in the timescale they initially sold, then CryEngine might have made sense. But they couldn't, and after all these years and investments, it may be that making their own engine would have been the sensible choice. But there again, they would never have got the funding they did if they had gone that route.
 
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