Surely you mean Vanduuls!
Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12
- Thread starter Yaffle
- Start date
-
- Tags
- star citizen
Surely you mean Vanduuls!
Yeah it was supposed to be Brennus , but then we'd miss out on that allusion to the
Vanduuls sack of Earth
BMM owners hope for news about it.
What do they finally celebrate?
They celebrate that its gone up in price.
Forget about silly things like actually getting what you paid for in the first place.
What do they finally celebrate?
They celebrate that its gone up in price.
Forget about silly things like actually getting what you paid for in the first place.
Just to copy more quotes from SA
CIG's experience with MMOs? What experience? And land claims in the coming 2 years? Oh my... such faith!
That's a bit of an overstatement. Once we have Server Meshing (coming 2021) and outpost-building or Land Claim (shouldn't be beyond 2022), there will be regular ground engagements. Plus there's ToW. Plus there's people like me who aren't interested in ship/space stuff at all, so they will be using any excuse to use the Tonk in scenarios they and their orgs create, even if there's no specific mechanics supporting it.
Youre setting yourself up for a world of hurt with those expectations
Those expectations are based on CIG's stated design and experience with MMOs. Whether that turns out to be the reality in SC has no relevance on whether those are realistic expectations. Unless you mean expectations for SM, LC and outpost-building, however even in that case those have been delayed long enough to warrant expecting them to arrive in the coming 2 years or so.
CIG's experience with MMOs? What experience? And land claims in the coming 2 years? Oh my... such faith!
Or even having that game asset to explore and play around with in-game, or a game.
Viajero
Volunteer Moderator
The most horrific part is how those backers seem to have fully internalized that that kind of money is absolutely normal and a worthy reflection of a price of a jpg asset in a video game.
Last edited:
Its absoloutely scary and shows just how much with the right kind of marketing you can get otherwise sane people to give large sums of money for things of little value.
And when people say "I do it to support the company" i know its pure rubbish, because if there weren't those ships for sale, if it was literally just a pledge, CIG wouldn't have got more than a few million in total.
A metaphor for SC's development?
There is one comparison to something Roman that fits pretty well: the insula. Note in particular the first paragraph on construction.
Or as the official SC motto says: "we are faithful as long as we expect to give up".
Last edited:
Told you! I'm investing here!
At the risk of going on a tangent, while I love the idea of combined arms, I have heavy doubts as to an implementation of it that doesn't completely break internal consistency.
Yes, as of today, ground troopers can shoot down airplanes. But first, this is because airplanes are incredibly fragile. And then, this isn't magical tech, the airplanes themselves carry similar versions of those missiles and have the same capacity. Take that into a futuristic context where for "balance" and "TTK" reasons, spaceships can endure multiple missile volleys from other ships, and are limited to only carry so many launchers under the pretense that the hull couldn't fit more or that they'd be too big/cumbersome. From there, either (a) your ground trooper carries a similar (smaller weapon class available to a ship) launcher, and ends up shooting mosquito bites at ships, or (b) you invent a magic tech that can actually do meaningful damage to ships (up to one-shotting them) and for some reason it doesn't work when fitted to a ship hull. (a) is internally consistent tech-wise, but means that there is no meaningful handheld G2A option. (b) does provide a gamey sense of "balance" but is ridiculously contrived.
Ground-based static emplacements are another option. Here you can justify heavier warheads (they don't need to be carried around), bigger power supplies for energy weapons, or better tracking (ground tracking array) that wouldn't be practical on a ship (although the more massive the ships, the least true this becomes). But obviously, that won't cover random troopers outside of an outpost. Imho, that's still the best way to go about it. It does provide a rationale for ground troops, while not making them "viable" at the cost of a completely crazy universe tech-wise. And well, the ground troops still benefit from being tiny targets, so unless specific A2G weapons get introduced, it shouldn't be a breeze for the ship to actually hit ground targets.
I can't comment on SC as I don't play it, but taking ED as an example, look at weapon sizes. Some ships have (S)mall-only weapon emplacements. These are massive multi-ton ships and they can't even fit a (M)edium weapon. I can't see any rationale for a ground trooper carrying anything beyond S-class weapons. And good luck taking down engineered ship with your ground-based single S gun. In fact, when was the last time you took down a ship with a single M class missile? I mean, possibly with a volley of 4 thermal cascade engineered torpedoes, but apart from that? So barring magitech, hell will freeze over before ground troops are a threat to ships. Even massed-fire would require a lot of S guns to effectively become a threat. And again, if magitech is introduced with handheld launchers that can one/two/three-shot ships, well, I'll be asking Core Dynamics why they won't fit these onto every single emplacement of my dropship. For another case where this time ground-based G2A weapons are lethal, take Planetside 2. A few troopers with anti-air launchers are enough to deter air presence. But the flip side here is that PS2 aircrafts can (logically) carry similar missiles and bring the same lethality against other aircrafts.
Unless SC actually has small-sized ship-based missiles that pack a massive punch, it's likely the same issues will arise.
tl;dr: because of TTK balance, spaceships are stupidly hard, to the point where it makes no sense that a handheld weapon from a ground trooper can have a tangible effect.
Yes, as of today, ground troopers can shoot down airplanes. But first, this is because airplanes are incredibly fragile. And then, this isn't magical tech, the airplanes themselves carry similar versions of those missiles and have the same capacity. Take that into a futuristic context where for "balance" and "TTK" reasons, spaceships can endure multiple missile volleys from other ships, and are limited to only carry so many launchers under the pretense that the hull couldn't fit more or that they'd be too big/cumbersome. From there, either (a) your ground trooper carries a similar (smaller weapon class available to a ship) launcher, and ends up shooting mosquito bites at ships, or (b) you invent a magic tech that can actually do meaningful damage to ships (up to one-shotting them) and for some reason it doesn't work when fitted to a ship hull. (a) is internally consistent tech-wise, but means that there is no meaningful handheld G2A option. (b) does provide a gamey sense of "balance" but is ridiculously contrived.
Ground-based static emplacements are another option. Here you can justify heavier warheads (they don't need to be carried around), bigger power supplies for energy weapons, or better tracking (ground tracking array) that wouldn't be practical on a ship (although the more massive the ships, the least true this becomes). But obviously, that won't cover random troopers outside of an outpost. Imho, that's still the best way to go about it. It does provide a rationale for ground troops, while not making them "viable" at the cost of a completely crazy universe tech-wise. And well, the ground troops still benefit from being tiny targets, so unless specific A2G weapons get introduced, it shouldn't be a breeze for the ship to actually hit ground targets.
I can't comment on SC as I don't play it, but taking ED as an example, look at weapon sizes. Some ships have (S)mall-only weapon emplacements. These are massive multi-ton ships and they can't even fit a (M)edium weapon. I can't see any rationale for a ground trooper carrying anything beyond S-class weapons. And good luck taking down engineered ship with your ground-based single S gun. In fact, when was the last time you took down a ship with a single M class missile? I mean, possibly with a volley of 4 thermal cascade engineered torpedoes, but apart from that? So barring magitech, hell will freeze over before ground troops are a threat to ships. Even massed-fire would require a lot of S guns to effectively become a threat. And again, if magitech is introduced with handheld launchers that can one/two/three-shot ships, well, I'll be asking Core Dynamics why they won't fit these onto every single emplacement of my dropship. For another case where this time ground-based G2A weapons are lethal, take Planetside 2. A few troopers with anti-air launchers are enough to deter air presence. But the flip side here is that PS2 aircrafts can (logically) carry similar missiles and bring the same lethality against other aircrafts.
Unless SC actually has small-sized ship-based missiles that pack a massive punch, it's likely the same issues will arise.
tl;dr: because of TTK balance, spaceships are stupidly hard, to the point where it makes no sense that a handheld weapon from a ground trooper can have a tangible effect.
Yes.
Ah yes, the invasion of South Georgia if my memory serves me correctly. About a dozen RMs with small arms held off the invasion force for a good chunk of a day.
The full story was that the ship skidaddled back out to sea, sat out of range and shelled the RMs until they eventually surrendered. There was, however, well north of 1000 holes in the ship, IIRC, and pretty sure that the RMs used their anti-tank kit against a submarine which showed up at some point as well.
The Royal Marines don't mess about!
Ultimately it's gotta be 'game first' right? But I think both SC & ED could pursue something leaning towards the Battlefield format and still sit within their world. IE:
- Air power are mainly worried about other air, and can dominate ground vehicles, but can be taken out by ground vehicles / emplacements if they neglect them or dally near concentrations of them.
- Heavy ground vehicles can threaten air (with deadliness improved by co-operative aspects like target painting etc), and dominate infantry / light ground vehicles.
- Infantry and light vehicles can intervene in the air war by taking out ground AA. (And just chip away at air with lucky hits of their heaviest armoury.) But mainly they're focused on staying mobile and triggering actual mission objectives.
It's still all a slightly silly 'modern mili + space lasers' pastiche. But it should work as a game
. And the power dynamics make a certain sense. (Plus they can have fun putting twists on stuff like shields / counter-measures / scanning etc, which all sit nicely in the sci-fi genre).Both games would need some kind of formalised setting to take advantage of these things in their open plan worlds and concentrate players. But those discrete elements could still work for emergent play and co-op and that (especially if AI could be made to mimic all of those tiers).
It's a big ask to make it work, but as a general principle, it could fit and sit
We'll see though. SC's already made an eyebrow raising choice with the handheld railgun that can take down a ship
(I'd also speculate that AI vehicles will be a struggle for both of them as things stand. ED at least made the sneaky choice of using hovering NPC vehicles to get around the pathing issues on proc gen surfaces. But we've seen how long they've been trying, and failing, to get wheeled SRVs to play nice as NPCs.)
On the whole G2A combat thing, I think this video is worth watching.
A metaphor for SC's development?
High Definition Physicalised Fidelitious Bike Rack, only $19.99 each!
I know right, theres literally dozens of abandoned NPC SRVs all over the place with escape pods coz they just gave up, its so sad
Id forgotten about NPC SRVs on bases, wonder how theyre getting on, maybe we'll see some being 'repaired' outside by NPCs but not actually moving in Odyssey....