Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

govny

govny
Intrepid3D said:
True, tho its not really Cryengine, or Lumberyard (Same thing) any more, CIG have modified it so much its basically their own engine at this point.
For example Cryengine is 32Bit, you can't make a world like SC with that, you can only make a world about 100KM, even the current Stanton System is 55 Million KM from one side to the other, you would have to use disguised instancing which they don't want, so CIG converted it to 64Bit, that allows for Billions of KM of precision.

This explains it quite well.

Source: https://youtu.be/OngP6uEfQoE?t=286
Click to expand...
again with this non sense.
I will give you some news: it has already been posted and dicussed ad nauseam and it is full of rubbish (wow, it has 64 bit position accuracy! yes like every other game that need it. It is not rocket science. Some examples: ED, Dual Universe, Infinity, kerbal, and so on). It is an hit piece made by Alex Battaglia that is a fan of SC from the beginning and it is not at all a neutral commentator.
 
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VR Golgot

VR Golgot
Intrepid3D said:
True, tho its not really Cryengine, or Lumberyard (Same thing) any more, CIG have modified it so much its basically their own engine at this point.
Click to expand...

That’s a bit of a stretch. It’s totally still modded Cryengine. There’s a reason they just acquired access to future Cryengine updates recently (Jan 6th). Because that’s still the base.

For sure they have tried to bend it to their will though. They’ve forced 64bit positioning into it (to varying degrees of success - collision detection is still pretty wonky for a start). And wrenched numerous other inconvenient bits around. (That thing where everything below the 'horizon' in the verse is under water will never not be funny. Especially when it leaks ;))

Intrepid3D said:
you would have to use disguised instancing which they don't want
Click to expand...

They don’t want to, but that’s pretty much what the planned 'Static Server Meshing' is.

We’ll probably see people swim through a planet before we see the 'Dynamic' version turn up ;)

Intrepid3D said:
This explains it quite well.
Click to expand...

If you only wanna hear breathy positives then yes. Some might say the downsides are important too though ;)

[VR] Golgot said:
Both videos have studiously ignored any technical drawbacks, or bridges that need to be crossed to reach a launch-ready wonderland. Which is a bit suss for a tech vid to be honest. They should be aware that 'tech demo' doesn't = game, and underline that for viewers really.

The elephant in the room this time seems to be server meshing. It's all cool to laud the planetary scale etc. But if you're going to laud Object Container stuff, then you need to point out that that self-same scale is going to spank SOCS etc into meaninglessness as things stand. (IE what's the point of selectively culling inactive areas when... a full server will mean most areas are active...)

Only the miracle of 'server meshing' seems to tie these aspects up in a bow. Yet no word on this, or its technical feasibility / antecedents etc. He might as well be lauding the untied sports shoe of a sprinter braced at the starting line ;)

---

At least that vid didn't hit absurdities with the frequency of the last one though. He was on a stronger footing with the 'eyeball to Spaceballs' stuff, as it does at least work.

The last vid was just a stream of consciousness suck-up to anything that took his fancy though. I think the physics grid transition bit sums it up pretty nicely:

His take: 'See the abrupt gravity change between these environments! So clever!'


Source:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OngP6uEfQoE&t=7m55s



The sort of thing missing from his take: Abrupt momentum change between environments. Not so clever :LOL:


Source:
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXdtlyk4KUc&t=18s



It's not like there aren't books that could be written on the technical travails of the physics grid system & their plans for it though ;). And that was just one moment, before he's on to the next shiny thing. It was just a marathon sprint through unexamined technical-debt territory...

(I could be wrong on loads of the above tech assessments, because I'm not techy ;). But it seems like a guy who claims to be both that, and a big fan of the game, should know about some of these hurdles that he's charging straight through...)
Click to expand...
 
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VR Mr Teatime

VR Mr Teatime
Intrepid3D said:
True, tho its not really Cryengine, or Lumberyard (Same thing) any more, CIG have modified it so much its basically their own engine at this point.
For example Cryengine is 32Bit, you can't make a world like SC with that, you can only make a world about 100KM, even the current Stanton System is 55 Million KM from one side to the other, you would have to use disguised instancing which they don't want, so CIG converted it to 64Bit, that allows for Billions of KM of precision.

This explains it quite well.

Source: https://youtu.be/OngP6uEfQoE?t=286
Click to expand...
I take it the source code repository commit logs are available to back that up, or that you have seen them?

I agree with the coord system analysis, even though unaltered CryEgnine runs out of puff at about 16km, not 100km. Do you think someone taking a 32bit FPS engine and asking for multi-million dollar funding for an open world MMO based upon it is a moron or fraudulent?
 

StuartGT

StuartGT
Cotic said:
Thing is, it's not Lumberyard.

CIG have customised CryEngine so much they cannot take LY patches and apply them, in fact they have never taken a single LY patch according to Clive Johnson. It even runs on a different version of CE than what LY is based on.

The LY crediting is purely advertising for Amazon as part of their agreement.
Click to expand...
govny said:
again with this non sense.
I will give you some news: it has already been posted and dicussed ad nauseam and it is full of rubbish (wow, it has 64 bit position accuracy! yes like every other game that need it. It is not rocket science. Some examples: ED, Dual Universe, Infinity, kerbal, and so on). It is an hit piece made by Alex Battaglia that is a fan of SC from the beginning and it is not at all a neutral commentator.
Click to expand...
[VR] Golgot said:
That’s a bit of a stretch. It’s totally still modded Cryengine. There’s a reason they just acquired access to future Cryengine updates recently (Jan 6th). Because that’s still the base.

For sure they have tried to bend it to their will though. They’ve forced 64bit positioning into it (to varying degrees of success - collision detection is still pretty wonky for a start). And wrenched numerous other inconvenient bits around. (That thing where everything below the 'horizon' in the verse is under water will never not be funny. Especially when it leaks ;))



They don’t want to, but that’s pretty much what the planned 'Static Server Meshing' is.

We’ll probably see people swim through a planet before we see the 'Dynamic' version turn up ;)



If you only wanna hear breathy positives then yes. Some might say the downsides are important too though ;)
Click to expand...
@Intrepid3D I have to ask: have you done any objective reading into what Star Citizen is, or do you just naively believe CIG's marketing and PR?
 

VR jefranklin18

VR jefranklin18
govny said:
again with this non sense.
I will give you some news: it has already been posted and dicussed ad nauseam and it is full of rubbish (wow, it has 64 bit position accuracy! yes like every other game that need it. It is not rocket science. Some examples: ED, Dual Universe, Infinity, kerbal, and so on). It is an hit piece made by Alex Battaglia that is a fan of SC from the beginning and it is not at all a neutral commentator.
Click to expand...
I feel we have looped back to 2018. Does that mean SC development starts next year? :unsure:
[VR] Mr Teatime said:
Do you think someone taking a 32bit FPS engine and asking for multi-million dollar funding for an open world MMO based upon it is a moron or fraudulent?
Click to expand...
A little from column A and a little from column B
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
kilvenny said:
View attachment 221622
Click to expand...

ED, NMS, and you don't even need recent games. Frontier (the game).

Or, if we can ignore planetary landings, then we have a number of space games with more space to explore. Like Tachyon.

Or if we are talking about playable area, then there are games like Minecraft, whose game world is huge, although once you get some billion miles out, things become very strange as the proc gen starts to break down.

Most telling though, CryEngine wasn't made for games of that scale. They basically had to retrofit a small map game engine to do what SC does. This may seem like an achievement, until you understand that other companies have got engines with much bigger game worlds.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Intrepid3D said:
True, tho its not really Cryengine, or Lumberyard (Same thing) any more, CIG have modified it so much its basically their own engine at this point.
For example Cryengine is 32Bit, you can't make a world like SC with that, you can only make a world about 100KM, even the current Stanton System is 55 Million KM from one side to the other, you would have to use disguised instancing which they don't want, so CIG converted it to 64Bit, that allows for Billions of KM of precision.

This explains it quite well.

Source: https://youtu.be/OngP6uEfQoE?t=286
Click to expand...

It might be its own engine, but its still licenced from someone, currently that being Amazon. They don't own the engine.

But that's not really the point of the meme i think. I think the point is Jared living in a bubble of ignorance regarding what is going on outside the world of Star Citizen. A position unfortunately shared by certain backers as well. Especially notable when they say things like "never been done before".

And while Jared waxes about the never been done before size of SC, ED has actually real scale systems. One system in ED has more scale than the whole of SC, yet ED has so many more systems.

Sure, someone might argue that there is more to do in a single crater in SC than there is in the whole of Skyrim, but that has no bearing on what Jared was trying to claim. Other games have done what CIG are doing, but bigger. Jared is either unaware of this or is blatantly ignoring those games.
 

Agony_Aunt

Agony_Aunt
Red Anders said:
This reminds me of when terrible 80s rock bands used to be referred to as 'big in Japan.'
Click to expand...
Oh, now you've set me off.

When people hear the words "big in Japan" their thoughts usually go to this...


Now, nobody can really argue the influence of Alphaville on the music of the 80s, with classics like this...


But there was actually a band called Big in Japan who had a song called... Big in Japan.


Unfortunately i can't find a video with the band in it with this song.... and yes, its absoloutely terrible. But its early days of the band members, let's say Tier 0.

However, at the 1 minute mark you can see a picture of the band members, and you might recognize some of them.

They were described by NME as the biggest band that never was, and for good reason.

Specifically third from left, Holly Johnson, a founding member of Frankie goes to Hollywood, a huge band in the late 80s


And had a solo career as well


Fifth from left is Ian Broudie, who would later find fame as the frontman of the Lightning Seeds


UK football fans of the 90s might remember this one


But to my mind the most influential member of the band was Bill Drummond, who went on to found the KLF with Jimmy Cauty, one of the most influencial pop/dance/sampling bands of the 90s.

Whether you remember them as the Timelords


or as the KLF


Or those guys who managed to convince an aging country and western singer to sing with them


If you lived in the 90s you knew about them.

They even wrote a book called how to write a number one, which at least one band claimed to have read and succeeded in making a number 1 record...


So, where am i going with this?

Well, as i see it you have two options. Either buy an Idris, or join the the Ancients of Mumu player faction in Elite Dangerous. Because we are justified (usually left, but sometimes right) and ancient (although not that ancient).
 
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Viajero

Volunteer Moderator
Viajero
Agony_Aunt said:
Oh, now you've set me off.

When people hear the words "big in Japan" their thoughts usually go to this...


Now, nobody can really argue the influence of Alphaville on the music of the 80s, with classics like this...


But there was actually a band called Big in Japan who had a song called... Big in Japan.


Unfortunately i can't find a video with the band in it with this song.... and yes, its absoloutely terrible. But its early days of the band members, let's say Tier 0.

However, at the 1 minute mark you can see a picture of the band members, and you might recognize some of them.

They were described by NME as the biggest band that never was, and for good reason.

Specifically third from left, Holly Johnson, a founding member of Frankie goes to Hollywood, a huge band in the late 80s


And had a solo career as well


Fifth from left is Ian Broudie, who would later find fame as the frontman of the Lightning Seeds


UK football fans of the 90s might remember this one


But to my mind the most influential member of the band was Bill Drummond, who went on to found the KLF with Jimmy Cauty, one of the most influencial pop/dance/sampling bands of the 90s.

Whether you remember them as the Timelords


or as the KLF


Or those guys who managed to convince an aging country and western singer to sing with them


If you lived in the 90s you knew about them.

They even wrote a book called how to write a number one, which at least one band claimed to read and succeeded in making a number 1 record...


So, where am i going with this?

Well, as i see it you have two options. Either buy an Idris, or join the the Ancients of Mumu player faction in Elite Dangerous. Because we are justified (usually left, but sometimes right) and ancient (although not that ancient).
Click to expand...
Man I miss some of the actual stories told in those 80s videos. Those were something! :cool:
 

Surefoot

S
Agony_Aunt said:
Oh, now you've set me off.

When people hear the words "big in Japan" their thoughts usually go to this...
Click to expand...
Or this
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psFdqiPfhmg

released back in 1973. I suppose these words were already a meme back then (dunno when they started to use the actual full "Big in Japan" but i suppose it was a saying that was common among the rock bands that would go there and have a huge success).


as for actual FPS in Star Citizen: this guy is streaming right now with a fps counter. He's running a 6900XT and i suppose a high end CPU.. Barely hovers around 40fps.
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K7NaWtVUtw
 

Intrepid3D

Intrepid3D
Agony_Aunt said:
It might be its own engine, but its still licenced from someone, currently that being Amazon. They don't own the engine.

But that's not really the point of the meme i think. I think the point is Jared living in a bubble of ignorance regarding what is going on outside the world of Star Citizen. A position unfortunately shared by certain backers as well. Especially notable when they say things like "never been done before".

And while Jared waxes about the never been done before size of SC, ED has actually real scale systems. One system in ED has more scale than the whole of SC, yet ED has so many more systems.

Sure, someone might argue that there is more to do in a single crater in SC than there is in the whole of Skyrim, but that has no bearing on what Jared was trying to claim. Other games have done what CIG are doing, but bigger. Jared is either unaware of this or is blatantly ignoring those games.
Click to expand...

I've been careful and trying not to compare SC with ED, i don't see them as competitors and most of all i don't want to get into a "which game does it better" peeing contest.
 
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