Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[VR Golgot]

Chris is his employer.

Well sure, he's the employer of all of them. That's the problem.

Normally there's a creative tension between the designers and bean counters, and also between the designers and the technology. And those limits can bring some positives. They prevent excessive scope creep, and they force you to focus on the art of the possible (and to make lemonade when you end up with lemons )

The problem is that Chris can now act like neither limitation exists, which he's always had a propensity to do anyway (to negative effect). And he's found a bunch of guys prepared to hold up a curtain in front of those nasty realities and agree with him that they're not there. He's still running right at them anyway though.

He still needs to bring a product to market eventually, and, weirdly enough, the 'everything game' that he's pitched to date isn't possible as described...

 

[MTBFritz]

Here's another protip, always read to the end of the thread before posting.

laughs in glee

enjoy!!

 

[Vetinari]

Watching this about CP2077 and couldn't help but notice all the similarities with SC, in some parts I was mentally overlaying Star Citizen when he says 'Cyberpunk' and the first 60s are full of SC bugs. Couple of NSFW words scattered through it.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZceBeZgAHo0&list=PLROK7-zJnlKsj0-lyKU6l9nMnDslL8wGB&index=4


Also this from The Chris Roberts Theory of Everything, posted a week ago on here but its a long read this quote should raise some serious concerns though, even for the shills and the dreamers its just wrong in every way.

I now look at our monthly fundraising and use that to set the amount of resources being used to develop this game. - CR

source: https://gameranx.com/updates/id/70033/article/the-chris-roberts-theory-of-everything/

And finally its Sunday Morning Cartoon Time - Stolen from the Theory page above, stolen from 'Dilbert' by Scott Adams which is just the funniest cartoon strip ever anyway. I used to buy a daily paper purely coz this cartoon was in it. (Dogbert is Dilbert's dog who just rips people off all the time in so many satirically accurate ways but they have deep philosophical discussions as well...and his little tail wags when he's happy )

 

[Intrepid3D]

Well sure, he's the employer of all of them. That's the problem.

Normally there's a creative tension between the designers and bean counters, and also between the designers and the technology. And those limits can bring some positives. They prevent excessive scope creep, and they force you to focus on the art of the possible (and to make lemonade when you end up with lemons )

The problem is that Chris can now act like neither limitation exists, which he's always had a propensity to do anyway (to negative effect). And he's found a bunch of guys prepared to hold up a curtain in front of those nasty realities and agree with him that they're not there. He's still running right at them anyway though.

He still needs to bring a product to market eventually, and, weirdly enough, the 'everything game' that he's pitched to date isn't possible as described...

That is the problem, yes.

 

[Dementropy]

I think CR is talented, he is a great game designer but he needs someone managing him, he doesn't know when to stop or compramise, every game developer wishes they could have done more but also understands there are limits, CR doesn't.

In the old days at Origin ("We make worlds"), it was Warren Spector who would keep Chris reined in and tell him he could only choose a few of the things he wanted, but not all of the things, because (and I don't think too much has changed in this regard) people like to play complete games.

Freelancer was like watching the shape of things to come.

May of 2000:

Our next milestone is what Microsoft calls "code-complete" which is probably the end of September. The next milestone will be content-complete which is all the content in as well as all the code fully functional which is at the end of the year and after that it's really going to be testing. So hopefully it'll be out by spring of next year.

October of 2002:

We've recently hit the point in the production cycle where all the features and the content that we've been striving to get into the game are now in.

Yet in the infamous Forbes article:

Stuart Moulder, the Microsoft general manager who oversaw the software giant’s relationship with Digital Anvil, came to believe that Microsoft money intended for game development was instead used for the movie. “[Roberts’] energy and attention and some of the funds were siphoned off for that movie,” Moulder says. “The Digital Anvil investment has to be looked at as largely a failure.”

And of course:

Roberts concedes that Microsoft was frustrated with the time he spent on the movie but says funds used for it were appropriate because they came from Microsoft’s purchase of the minority stake, with the proceeds earmarked for general business purposes that included moviemaking.

So I'm seeing a pattern where, without someone to rein him in, a project drags on, and funds may or may not be misappropriated for things other than game development. Maybe another company will come in and finish Star Citizen. Maybe the investors will really want a return on their own funding, no matter how truncated the project has to be.

It does make one wonder what Freelancer Chris Roberts (and everything that entailed) would make of Star Citizen Chris Roberts today.

A more in-depth explanation can be found here (which is where I lifted those quotes):

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/kvbdhm/_/gjsza3p

Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/kvbdhm/updates_on_xenothreat_and_the_monthly_reports_by/gjsza3p/

 

[Intrepid3D]

In the old days at Origin ("We make worlds"), it was Warren Spector who would keep Chris reined in and tell him he could only choose a few of the things he wanted, but not all of the things, because (and I don't think too much has changed in this regard) people like to play complete games.

Freelancer was like watching the shape of things to come.

May of 2000:


October of 2002:


Yet in the infamous Forbes article:


And of course:


So I'm seeing a pattern where, without someone to rein him in, a project drags on, and funds may or may not be misappropriated for things other than game development. Maybe another company will come in and finish Star Citizen. Maybe the investors will really want a return on their own funding, no matter how truncated the project has to be.

It does make one wonder what Freelancer Chris Roberts (and everything that entailed) would make of Star Citizen Chris Roberts today.

Is someone else, an establish publisher? EA, Ubisoft.... taking over the development the solution?

 

[ECity]

LOL ( twitch clip )

 

[Dementropy]

Is someone else, an establish publisher? EA, Ubisoft.... taking over the development the solution?

I don't see any established publishers beating a path to CIG's door, so I'll leave that open to interpretation.

Comedy option: Chris has finally proven them all wrong.

 

[sovapid]

Its the phrase 'Players will sort it out for themselves in-game' that always makes me laugh. So naive. Players either are the problem or stop playing the game or find a different way by blocking or moving to PG or Solo if available. The numbers of people playing as lawfuls who actively seek PVP is tiny...because its more fun playing a bad guy than a good guy. Hats off to the lawfuls but it just aint a solution.

In Elite sure. If someone is bounty hunting me I can just block them. Problem solved. The lawful group in Elite was complaining about this recently.

Not so in Star Citizen. I am constantly being pursued by bounty hunters, which is fine by me, I want the fights.

And if I get got, I get a 13 hour prison sentence.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

And if I get got, I get a 13 hour prison sentence.

Fidelity.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

he doesn't know when to stop or compramise,

And the faithful egg him on saying "no compromises, it will be done when its done, better a delayed game that is good than a rushed game that is bad"

They don't seem to understand they have chosen the path to no released game at all.

 

[ECity]

Of course, players in prison switch to their alt accounts, have others give them merits to get out, or log out until the next day.

 

[sovapid]

Dont switch to the alt, the alt is what holds the merits. Still have to spend the time to farm the merits in the first place.

 

[Thargon]

I will almost bet to eat a s!ock if they do....

We will hold you to that...

 

[Thargon]

Hello Kitty suits confirmed?

 

[Mole HD]

Hello Kitty suits confirmed?

They're already a fashion item for the discerning, well dressed commando...male and female variants... but one size fits all. Besides the silly cat ears, the armour is very functional...medium class with fittings for primary and secondary weapons plus med/oxy pens, pistol and multi-tool...tons of spare magazine slots too which are all physicalised. I'll probably ditch the kitty hat and go back to my black, gold and red Mandalorian style helmet. It's the one design aspect I like about SC's personal armours besides the attention to detail...the ability to mix and match inividual pieces from a variety of armour types and styles to suit your personal taste... undersuit, arms, torso, legs and helmet are all interchangeable and come in a variety of colours and finishes.

Everybody likes cosmetic add-ons at the end of the day... if only for the personalisation and visual appearance. I've lost count of the ship kits and paint packs I've bought for ED. Ci¬G are catching up with the individual ship paint jobs too. I'm just surprised it's taken them so long to implement the feature. Besides the limited ones like subscriber perk items, the armours and ship paints can all be bought in game with aUEC as well as for cash in the RSI store which is fine by me. I've no complaints about buying purely cosmetic add-ons either way

 

[Viajero]

In the old days at Origin ("We make worlds"), it was Warren Spector who would keep Chris reined in and tell him he could only choose a few of the things he wanted, but not all of the things, because (and I don't think too much has changed in this regard) people like to play complete games.

Freelancer was like watching the shape of things to come.

May of 2000:


October of 2002:


Yet in the infamous Forbes article:


And of course:


So I'm seeing a pattern where, without someone to rein him in, a project drags on, and funds may or may not be misappropriated for things other than game development. Maybe another company will come in and finish Star Citizen. Maybe the investors will really want a return on their own funding, no matter how truncated the project has to be.

It does make one wonder what Freelancer Chris Roberts (and everything that entailed) would make of Star Citizen Chris Roberts today.

A more in-depth explanation can be found here (which is where I lifted those quotes):

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/kvbdhm/_/gjsza3p

Source: https://old.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/kvbdhm/updates_on_xenothreat_and_the_monthly_reports_by/gjsza3p/

Whoa that Reynolds dude sure knows his stuff. Impressive how he systematically demolishes most of the myths and fallacies out there about SC.

I particularly liked the one where some SC fan argues CR´s successful career in the movie industry.:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/j1ovf7/_/g72rzfb

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/j1ovf7/christopher_roberts_holding_a_t_h_i_c_c_copy_of/g72rzfb?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

 

[Viajero]

LOL ( twitch clip )

This one is surely fun all around but it needs the classic "wait for it"

 

[GreatDaneXL]

8 !!!

12 threads after, still waiting for the phone to ring so I can answer the call.

Hey! We hadn't had a chance to vote on the sub-title name for the thread!

Come on guys, what do you want to call it?

1) Star Citizen: Development by Surprise!
2) Star Citizen: Hotel California
3) Star Citizen: Store Citisn't
4) Star Citizen: Once the pipelines are complete the content spigot will open
5) Star Citizen: Card removed from roadmap
6) Star Citizen: Mole pretends he is a mole in a Mole
7) Star Citizen: You can't criticize alpha!
8) Star Citizen: They also fixed a jitter offset computation error with unified raymarching so that it works in harmony with the guided filter denoiser, and added transmittance-weighted depth-computation, which controls the width of the denoise kernel tin guided filtering and raymarching up-sampling results

How bout.... Star Citizen...so your great great great great grand kids can pull your dusty, decepit, decades old PC out and play it. Cause great great great great grandpa would have wanted it that way!

 

[Red Anders]

Is someone else, an establish publisher? EA, Ubisoft.... taking over the development the solution?

I think the issue there is that any realistic company (i.e.not one headed by Chris Roberts) would take one look at the technical debt vs potential revenue calculation and immediately nope out. That's to make the game as currently described by Chris of course, realistically you can just read the history of Freelancer to see how it would have to work in reality - swathes of promised content chopped out and a chopped down game released to recover something financially. I mean if they lost the insane things like the gobbledegook about materials, toilet gameplay and ships with crew of 80 (in a game that can currenty only handle 40 players on a server with about 15% of it's supposed content present) and worked on things like having more than one system and the rest of the gameplay loops for the absolute basics of a space game then I guess someone could maybe break even on it but the real question is why would they do it?

After what Chris has already promised they'd be forever known as the people who 'killed Star Citizen' no matter how ridiculous an analysis that would actually be and they all have far easier ways of making far more money, either with new titles or the next installments of existing franchises. It's already been a poisoned chalice for years, I can't see a reason that any publisher would take it on. In the process they would also become the dumping ground for every excuse Chris had to offer and although he's already absolved himself, which was big of him, my personal feeling is that this is too big a deal to allow history to absolve him; this is a bed he needs to lie in. Without clipping through anything.