Game Discussions Star Citizen Discussion Thread v12

[VR Golgot]

I don't plan to hang around in this thread (it's a terribly depressing place)

Oh you are so wrong. This thread is full of comedic depths that have aged like fine wine . We're on at least an 8 year vintage at the moment, and it's all kinds of delicious. (There's tragedy too of course, but that just keeps things piquant )

If I end up hating SC, it will be because of my own experiences, not because someone else tells me this is how I should think or feel.

Cool

 

[MTBFritz]

if he ends up "hating" a video game over the fact that he didnt like the experience that points to a deeply disturbing pattern IMO I wouldnt call it "cool". Or maybe people dont know what "hate" actually means and use it so nonchalant that it loses its meaning.

 

[Mole HD]

Probably because most of us understand your position. We laughed at you when you bought back in despite getting out once. You also said you won't give CIG any more money (right? Or at least until they release the game?).

Now, if you were to tell us you'd spent another bunch of cash, then i'd be asking you why. I might even throw some memes your way.

Besides a few bucks on cosmetics...with which I have absolutely no objection to ...it would be hypocritical given I buy available content for practically every game that offers it...I'm about as likely to spend more cash in the future on Star Citizen as you are

I'm done, I have all the ships I'll ever need assuming Star Citizen ever makes it out of the door. Everything else I'll buy in game.

 

[Intrepid3D]

I also think CR really wants to make the game that is in his head. I don't think he is trying to cheat (scam) people out of a game. He is honest in that regard. But like Billy McFarlane he's not above lying through his teeth to try and ensure his project succeeds. Like Billy, he doesn't know how to actually deliver on what he has promised. And so far, the only difference from Billy is CR hasn't resorted to wire fraud to keep the project afloat (as far as we know), but that's because people keep giving him money. I wonder if CR would cross that line should the funding dry up.

So, i guess your position is you don't believe CR is intentionally lying? Its just he does because he's overconfident?

I do think he genuinely wants to make this game, but i don't think he has the talent or knowledge to micromanage the way he does, his micromanagement of it creates a very real and serious problem, because while he does have some talents he doesn't know everything, not by a long way.
I also think he likes the money that's coming in, i think there is some deliberate stretching going on to make it last longer, to squeeze as much as he can for as long as he can.
This is a serious problem with the way the game is funded, its like a bottomless pit of $100K a day, where is the incentive, the urgency to get it done?

On the other side of that without this funding model the game would never have got off the drawing board. i'm conflicted about the way its funded, i just wish CR would step down or for someone to force him out.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

Ah, that's not hate. Just some people are rubbish posters

....

And here I thought you liked me. But I can take it - I'll work on it: Less hate - more snuggling, got it.

 

[cigwatch]

if he ends up "hating" a video game over the fact that he didnt like the experience that points to a deeply disturbing pattern IMO I wouldnt call it "cool". Or maybe people dont what what "hate" actually means and use it so nonchalant that it loses its meaning.

I think it was more in the vein of "I hate broccoli, mom!".

 

[Xink]

I'd encourage everyone to try the game out for themselves during fleet week free fly. It's always hilarious.

They do it every year, you know. Rather than telling you what to expect, try it and judge for yourself. Just don't give them any money before you do.

 

[MTBFritz]

I'd encourage everyone to try the game out for themselves during fleet week free fly. It's always hilarious.

They do it every year, you know. Rather than telling you what to expect, try it and judge for yourself. Just don't give them any money before you do.

Subtle...you shill

 

[Mole HD]

I do think he genuinely wants to make this game, but i don't think he has the talent or knowledge to micromanage the way he does, his micromanagement of it creates a very real and serious problem, because while he does have some talents he doesn't know everything, not by a long way.
I also think he likes the money that's coming in, i think there is some deliberate stretching going on to make it last longer, to squeeze as much as he can for as long as he can.
This is a serious problem with the way the game is funded, its like a bottomless pit of $100K a day, where is the incentive, the urgency to get it done?

On the other side of that without this funding model the game would never have got off the drawing board. i'm conflicted about the way its funded, i just wish CR would step down or for someone to force him out.

I'll include this quote from @Darkfyre99 which mirrored my own views on Chris Roberts practically to a T.

Chris Roberts seems to me to be far more concerned about the trappings of success, than actually being successful at developing his dream game. Successful game companies eventually move to high-cost areas, therefore he set up his studios in high-cost areas. Successful game companies have fancy studios filled with custom artwork, therefore he builds fancy studios with custom artwork. Successful game studios hold lavish conventions, therefore he holds lavish conventions. Successful game studios have hundreds of employees, therefore he hires hundreds of employees... even if most of those employees have nothing productive to do, because the core tech isn’t in place yet.

The problem is that he hasn’t earned any of that. His company wasn’t built by selling finished games. It was built by asking people to give him money to make a game. Until he delivers what he promised, this money isn’t his to spend as he pleases. He’s just the steward, and as the steward of other people’s money, Chris Roberts is a wastrel.

 

[Intrepid3D]

I'd encourage everyone to try the game out for themselves during fleet week free fly. It's always hilarious.

They do it every year, you know. Rather than telling you what to expect, try it and judge for yourself. Just don't give them any money before you do.

Better still budy up with someone who knows the game, its very difficult for someone new to it to find their feet, which in its self is failing but at least that way they are not stood around looking at thier feet wondering what the hell is going on.

 

[Intrepid3D]

I'll include this quote from @Darkfyre99 which mirrored my own views on Chris Roberts practically to a T.

Yeah i don't disagree with any of that.

 

[Dementropy]

I do think he genuinely wants to make this game, but i don't think he has the talent or knowledge to micromanage the way he does, his micromanagement of it creates a very real and serious problem, because while he does have some talents he doesn't know everything, not by a long way.
I also think he likes the money that's coming in, i think there is some deliberate stretching going on to make it last longer, to squeeze as much as he can for as long as he can.
This is a serious problem with the way the game is funded, its like a bottomless pit of $100K a day, where is the incentive, the urgency to get it done?

On the other side of that without this funding model the game would never have got off the drawing board. i'm conflicted about the way its funded, i just wish CR would step down or for someone to force him out.

Were I to go all the way to the left on the scale, I'd say the game has yet to get off the drawing board, with the number of things they've had to rework, kick down the line, or remove from various iterations of the roadmap. The concept of Star Citizen is doing the heavy lifting for the funding model, not the practical mechanics.

Now to bring things back to a more central point on the scale, Chris isn't going to leave. His own pedigree (imagined or not) from his days at Origin or with Freelancer (though history differs with him on that point) is helping to drive funding. He already shopped the idea around and publishers turned him down, which is why he went with the crowdfunding model.

I don't think another entity will want to take over this game (possibly Little Orbit, which has been prone to snatch up undelivered Kickstarter games and then place them in a permanent holding pattern), simply because of the financial and technical obligations that are attached to the project. How many technical deliverables have to be created just to meet the minimum checklist of what original backers gave money for (not to mention later backers who came in after 3.0 dropped)? What are the financial obligations to the Calders and possibly other entities? What are the covenants in the contracts with Turbulent, Firesprite, et al?

It's all pretty daunting, and I don't think it's something many people or companies are willing to undertake. My gut says CR has pretty much lashed himself to the mast on this, and I don't see the backers, the top staff, or anyone else leaping to loosen the ropes, because the funding and nostalgia-induced interest would potentially plummet without him.

 

[TiberiusDuval]

Well I would like to see something like SC as promised as released game minus totally impossible stuff, but I really think Chris Roberts and CIG are not going to be makers of that game. If they manage to do so, well done, but I think no....

 

[Xink]

Impressive! How many thousand dollars might that have been? Hope you haven't sold your house...

Oi, lay off our Mole. Less he sicks his cows on you

 

[Agony_Aunt]

I do think he genuinely wants to make this game, but i don't think he has the talent or knowledge to micromanage the way he does, his micromanagement of it creates a very real and serious problem, because while he does have some talents he doesn't know everything, not by a long way.
I also think he likes the money that's coming in, i think there is some deliberate stretching going on to make it last longer, to squeeze as much as he can for as long as he can.
This is a serious problem with the way the game is funded, its like a bottomless pit of $100K a day, where is the incentive, the urgency to get it done?

On the other side of that without this funding model the game would never have got off the drawing board. i'm conflicted about the way its funded, i just wish CR would step down or for someone to force him out.

So, am i right in thinking you don't pay for a subscription? Your position in evocati is based on past payments to CIG, and you will not give CIG any more money until they show you they can deliver on what they have promised?

 

[Mole HD]

Impressive! How many thousand dollars might that have been? Hope you haven't sold your house...

It was less than the cost of a decent cow...and I have a couple of those

 

[Intrepid3D]

Without sounding like a pompous , as an Evocati i do get to talk to the developers directly, i also get to see the development work that goes into it.

Quite aside from that this project is huge, about 800 staff at this point and they are all busy busy busy with an extremely complex and demanding project.

No one here is making this argument, this is no scam, i think the bulk of the money does go into the game and CR is constantly adding to the costs by growing the staff numbers, the fact that he is actively doing that sugests at least some genuine intent.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Better still budy up with someone who knows the game, its very difficult for someone new to it to find their feet, which in its self is failing but at least that way they are not stood around looking at thier feet wondering what the hell is going on.

However, going in solo does provide you with a good feeling for the solo player experience.

I know SC is more designed as a group game and that CIG push it as a group experience, but there will be plenty looking for that lone wolf style of gameplay.

Yeah, in ED im a group leader, but only because none of the other slackers wanted the job and its rare i actually get to wing up with anyone. My play time can be extensive at times, at other times very limited, but often i'll need to drop out at random moments because of work or family, and that is not conductive to grouping up for extended periods in any game.

And one problem with SC's gameplay (for me) is how a lot seems to revolve in spending lots of time in groups, working together, and even just getting to places to do stuff or even meeting up can take lots of time. (not a criticism of SC specifically, this applies to all multiplayer games which are designed around group play - they just aren't good match for my life).

Let's say multicrew of a ship, and ship enters combat, and i've got the role of gunner or helm or another important role. The last thing someone wants to hear is "Sorry guys, got to log". Or worse, if its my ship, and i have to log, and now (depending on how its configured) the other players either find themselves without a ship or they can do whatever with my ship which means i could return to find i have no ship (rebuy required).

I'll say this for ED, it does cater well for the solo player, perhaps at the expense of group play. But i think SC is the other way around. You can solo play in SC, but the real benefit comes from group play - assuming you can be online when the people you know are and don't have to drop out at difficult moments and don't have to worry about things like logging out on someone else's ship and then worrying around where you will respawn.

 

[Intrepid3D]

So, am i right in thinking you don't pay for a subscription? Your position in evocati is based on past payments to CIG, and you will not give CIG any more money until they show you they can deliver on what they have promised?

Correct on all fronts. never have paid a subscription, never will. i haven't spent anything on the game in about 2 years.

I have been Evocati since 2016, i'm one of the very first batch, i had an Avenger Titan at the time.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Correct on all fronts. never have paid a subscription, never will. i haven't spent anything on the game in about 2 years.

I have been Evocati since 2016, i'm one of the very first batch, i had an Avenger Titan at the time.

Got it, thanks.