Star Citizen Discussions v7

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Almost all money went into graphics - all cool stuff like in other AAA games:

graphics = great
sound = good/great
gameplay = bad or average at best...
extras - Pay to Win...

Well, to be fair, it has been signature thing for SC since beginning - Chris is obsessed with these graphics details.

In real games it is gameplay what matters and small details is just nice cherry on the top. Here, it is just huge cherry but almost no cake.

 

[VidarSnipes]

Absolutely none of that has any relevance to the discussion, which was about what there is in the way of gameplay loops in 3.0, so I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make.

Argh. I'm trying to explain that I have used "gameplay loops" as a broad umbrella term to make sure that people will talk about gameplay of 3.0 instead of focusing on planets when I'm asking what's missing from 3.0 compared to the promises. I don't give a flying foxtrot if something doesn't meet your definition of the term, you don't have to hold to it so closely. Mine is far less stringent and I'll consider trading a "gameplay loop" even if you can't make money from it.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Well, i gotta say, the 3.0 alpha is interesting.

- Performance was rather stable (dunno about fps but im guessing at least 30 because i had no stutter)
- Short hops between a station and to a moon orbiting the same world went quickly
- Took a while longer to get down towards the surface
- Planet surface has far more...dare i say it...fidelity than Elite for example and the amount of ground clutter is very generous without impacting performance
- Like Elite it's basically the same thing all the time but the ground is a lot more..."edgy" with more sharp rocks instead of the half melted look of elite.
- Flight model...leaves a lot to be desired but it could be because I had all the flight safety features on where the flight cpu kept everything in place
- Head tracking is a REQUIREMENT later on even if one could utilize mouse look to take in the view
- Only tried one moon so far and was a VERY dusty sand planet so viewing distance was...somewhat limited.
- Flight in general on a planet got me some ARMA feels when going 50 meters above the ground in a canyon with a Cutlass that has a definite feel of a AH-64 Apache.

The computer was sitting stable at around 20% CPU usage and i think between 4-8GB mem.

If this is the groundwork with the planetary tools and system mechanics they talked about they seem to have a solid ground to work from but also a huge load of work to even fill ONE planetoid with content.

It's a clear improvement over 2.6.3 but for RELEASED content wise it feels like very little for one years work.

That said, it's not like they HAVE to increase the amount of assets for a test area since having players testing sit and go "wow" to see if an asset looks good is hardly a testing requirement.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Argh. I'm trying to explain that I have used "gameplay loops" as a broad umbrella term to make sure that people will talk about gameplay of 3.0 instead of focusing on planets when I'm asking what's missing from 3.0 compared to the promises. I don't give a flying foxtrot if something doesn't meet your definition of the term, mine is far less stringent and I'll consider trading a "gameplay loop" even if you can't make money from it.

I have not really tested any gameplay loops but the only ones i remembered from 2.6.3 was basically repair missions and that single detective mission. For 3.0 I'll have to check later.

But yea, for a 1 year delay of 3.0 the visual content for players to test feels...unimpressive to say the least.

 

[VidarSnipes]

Well, i gotta say, the 3.0 alpha is interesting.

- Performance was rather stable (dunno about fps but im guessing at least 30 because i had no stutter)
- Short hops between a station and to a moon orbiting the same world went quickly
- Took a while longer to get down towards the surface
- Planet surface has far more...dare i say it...fidelity than Elite for example and the amount of ground clutter is very generous without impacting performance
- Like Elite it's basically the same thing all the time but the ground is a lot more..."edgy" with more sharp rocks instead of the half melted look of elite.
- Flight model...leaves a lot to be desired but it could be because I had all the flight safety features on where the flight cpu kept everything in place
- Head tracking is a REQUIREMENT later on even if one could utilize mouse look to take in the view
- Only tried one moon so far and was a VERY dusty sand planet so viewing distance was...somewhat limited.
- Flight in general on a planet got me some ARMA feels when going 50 meters above the ground in a canyon with a Cutlass that has a definite feel of a AH-64 Apache.

The computer was sitting stable at around 20% CPU usage and i think between 4-8GB mem.

If this is the groundwork with the planetary tools and system mechanics they talked about they seem to have a solid ground to work from but also a huge load of work to even fill ONE planetoid with content.

It's a clear improvement over 2.6.3 but for RELEASED content wise it feels like very little for one years work.

That said, it's not like they HAVE to increase the amount of assets for a test area since having players testing sit and go "wow" to see if an asset looks good is hardly a testing requirement.

Interesting insight in general, I agree with the "half melted look" of Elite, also a little nitpick - 3.0 was worked on at least since Gamescom 2016 (I don't believe they didn't have anything by the time GC demo was made), so it's closer to one and a half years of work.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

It feels unreal and gamey, but I have to say, I wish ED would leave more visible cargo around from blowing up big traders

Can you imagine 50% from a fully laden T9 explode from it like a Pinata?

200+ tonnes of random goods to pick up.

Piracy will be HELL in SC unless they also add the ability to find cargo manifests and remotely detect cargo crates with what you want. I mean, blow up ship, find unmarked crates and then have to manually open and check manifest, or worse, open each one of them to take a look?

If they do it right it can be interesting but if they do it wrong it will be worse than Elite.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Interesting insight in general, I agree with the "half melted look" of Elite, also a little nitpick - 3.0 was worked on at least since Gamescom 2016 (I don't believe they didn't have anything by the time GC demo was made), so it's closer to one and a half years of work.

Indeed it was, i was merely counting the 1 year delay or added work or how one want to look at it.

It's pretty and seems to function and I can think of several things that caused it all to require additional work or rework but it would have been nice to hear CIG tells us about what went wrong with the first 3.0.

I would at least be less concerned if they did not only talk about what went good but also WHY they needed an additional year.

It 'feels' like a good foundation since it basically WORKS but even if it works the issue is still to basically add more content. The Delta patcher itself felt somewhat like a jesus patch.

 

[GaryII]

Piracy will be HELL in SC unless they also add the ability to find cargo manifests and remotely detect cargo crates with what you want.

Yes THIS, too.
Also it will fail because people wont "roleplay" piracy - they will try to run or just try to log off like in Elite...
Proper piracy can work only when BOTH sides roleplay and it wont work with Random cmdrs in PU...

 

[Goose4291]

Yes THIS, too.
Also it will fail because people wont "roleplay" piracy - they will try to run or just try to log off like in Elite...
Proper piracy can work only when BOTH sides roleplay and it wont work with Random cmdrs in PU...

Well that'll depend on the server framework and mechanics.

I mean, piracy against other players works quite well in Naval Action for example.

But then, it's a game with wooden ships rather than spaceships, so the community are a bit more mellow about these things

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

- Like Elite it's basically the same thing all the time but the ground is a lot more..."edgy" with more sharp rocks instead of the half melted look of elite.

CIG actively tries to represent surfaces that are...cinematic or so. However half melted look of Elite mostly comes from current limitations of PG graphics engine. This is what they will work on for Q4 update.

 

[GaryII]

Well that'll depend on the server framework and mechanics.

Yes, and here I am not very optimistic their whole team focus are ships and cool graphics NOT gameplay...

 

[Goose4291]

Yes, and here I am not very optimistic their whole team focus are ships and cool graphics NOT gameplay...

I'd disagree there. Like I mentioned a few pages back, it's clear to me that they are thinking about how game mechanics work, based on the whole respawn at Grim Hex if you're a bad-boy mechanic we're already seeing.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I'd disagree there. Like I mentioned a few pages back, it's clear to me that they are thinking about how game mechanics work, based on the whole respawn at Grim Hex if you're a bad-boy mechanic we're already seeing.

Bad boy mechanic is 4 years old. They haven't mentioned or expressed how piracy will work in game.

 

[Goose4291]

Bad boy mechanic is 4 years old. They haven't mentioned or expressed how piracy will work in game.

My point is that it's a mechanic (one of the few we've seen), and it's solidly thought out and works well.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

My point is that it's a mechanic (one of the few we've seen), and it's solidly thought out and works well.

Works well for what exactly? What's its goal? Someone breaks the law, and gets send to prison? Is penalty just padded time? How do you think it will work in real game?

For now it's not really a mechanic, just different spawning point.

Also piracy is much more complex than that.

 

[PiLhEaD]

.....Seriously, if this was EA, the whole gaming community would be up in arms...

That's an interesting point and one that made me wonder if the current player base for SC isn't typical of the usual gaming community. But then again, how could it be. The ordinary game players won't play SC until it's released.

The current player base is instead a self selecting group, each of whom has invested to some degree or other into a dream. They are not typical gamers who have invested their $49.99 into a game they will rightly expect to entertain them for 50+ hours.

I'm not being pejorative here, but AA's comment clarified my thinking about why SC's players react differently than might be expected. I'm not moaning or finger pointing, just sharing my observation.

 

[PiLhEaD]

... At least Kickstarter had ground rules like mile stones and an "expected release" time factor that allowed backers some visibility on how well their cash was being used and when the benefactor should produce a result. I think CIG have slipped neatly into a little loop-hole that allows them to market a "MMO" software entertainment product without all the inconvenience of having to actually properly complete one and support it...

Honest question - could the original kickstarter backers use kickstarter to force CIG's hand?

Surely CIG, no matter what additional funding and expanding scope, still have to honour their commitments to the original KS backers?

 

[PiLhEaD]

New PTU Patch 3.0.0ae

Shouldn't that be A&E?

 

[AJW]

Honest question - could the original kickstarter backers use kickstarter to force CIG's hand?

Surely CIG, no matter what additional funding and expanding scope, still have to honour their commitments to the original KS backers?

From the Kickstarter terms of use:

Kickstarter provides a funding platform for creative projects. When a creator posts a project on Kickstarter, they’re inviting other people to form a contract with them. Anyone who backs a project is accepting the creator’s offer, and forming that contract.

Kickstarter is not a part of this contract — the contract is a direct legal agreement between creators and their backers.
...

https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

In plain English, if you want to get your money back, and CIG won't refund it, see a lawyer.

 

[1500]

My point is that it's a mechanic (one of the few we've seen), and it's solidly thought out and works well.

Except it was not. It was a hot fix in order to stop the greffing that was happening. CIG didn't think it out, it is nothing more than a placeholder and a poor one at that.