Star Citizen Thread v6

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-"A couple of pics from our gaming last night. At one point (IIRC) there were 11 of us on this Starfarer. "
-"I think we had 18 people in that instance. It was pretty cool. Can't wait to get the whole of Imperium together in SPACE!"
-"Yup.. over an hour of play, and just a few client crashes. Stability is a lot better."
-"We had a blast on that Starfarer, we held our own for a bit against 2 vanguards and a connie before they took us out! Juntau took us to grim hex to start a fight it was really awesome for the first time rolling with the org!"

11 people in this starfarer, 18 people in the instance at one point, an hour of gameplay with only a few crashes and good stability and an incredible space battle in big ships......

....only apart from 3 screenshots there is no evidence for all of this. The screenshot you claim to hold 9 people shows at best 8, the second picture "might" have 9 but the right pilot seat is obstructed so I can only count 8 and "assume" the player from the last screenshots is till in place. So we are at 8 players. You know this all strikes me as suspicious because you have an org, assumingly players like us who try to prove to the rest of the world how awesome their chosen game is. They provide high quality pictures of limited content and fill up the description with all kinds of stuff yet not ONE of them thought about providing pictures of all the really cool stuff or stream this event. I can only assume its because the stream would show single digit frames, 8 players max at any given time and constant crashing. All things that can be observed in streams and live gameplay videos throughout the internet. Hey, dont bark up my tree. I dont try to "prove" this stuff, I m just the guy questioning it all because there is no clear evidence. If you want to believe whatever these guys say because they posted 3 nice looking pictures then do it. Just dont be shocked when I require more then this in order to convince me SC is a winners game.

Question to the players here. Can 1 player spawn more then 1 ship in the PU? Does a player contact on the UI has a name if its a player or does that fade out with range? Any idea why the supposed 15 "ships" are shown in this manner all by themselves kilometers apart represented with just a blip and not shown huddled together?

The video featuring this picture is at best a montage and could ve been tampered. God knows I come across SC videos which try to photoshop or sell stuff all the time proving a deliberate attempt of the author to shroud real conditions. You are clearly amazed and excited about the stuff you think is real JohnMice but your evidence does not provide any to the situation at hand. At best it rises more questions. Even now with all the discussions and arguments about stability and network code preventing lots of people in the same instance there is no evidence supporting the pro-SC side without doubt. There are clearly people around who are very intend to proof their point of view but the best they can come up with is debatable screenshots and disputable snippets of gameplay.

I m sure people will throw their hands in the air now and say "this guys simply does NOT want to see it" but even if thats true.......real evidence would provide proof that I simply cannot deny it all without saying "okay, but this is still a scam because I think so". This is not the case. The evidence in question is simply lacking thats all. And with all the intentional lying by CiG and fans on youtube I think I am entitled to distrust and skepticism. Because the current results or lack thereof point to drastic shortcominhs when it comes to CiGs claims so questions are fair I think.


And I thought we established already that ATV are not evidence. So if you point to an ATV in order to provide such or support a claim for facts you could as well just dont do it or at least admit its something you "hope" will eventually arrive but is no clear evidence of whats coming. Talk is cheap and we have no reason to believe that any of what they show will ever come to our harddrives. I remember the 2016 presentations being awesome and breathtaking (and scripted) as well but we already know none of it will ever come to SC so why is the rest of the stuff ATVs show under much more controlled conditions any better?
 
John I have had great experiences similar to you in my org. My understanding is that the current PU is capped at 16 ships and 24 players. Dr Smart has changed his view and accepts that this is correct and that the limit is not 8 players.
I have had a smooth experience at SPK with 10 ships.

This is all nonsense anyway as the current offerings are just a placeholder, to give us something to do and test some of the features that may end up in the final game ( and to encourage funding) The final game will hopefully have a cap of hundreds of people and ships. 3.0 will still be 16 and 24 I believe

Do/did people say the cap is 8? I thought most people were talking about the fps dropping once you got more than 8 on a server, not the actual capacity of a server.
 
Do/did people say the cap is 8? I thought most people were talking about the fps dropping once you got more than 8 on a server, not the actual capacity of a server.

Generally these type of games (SC, ED etc) dont have hard locks you are likely to reach. In ED you can get up to a 100 players in an instance (!) but it is fragile as heck and unlikely under all but the most extreme situations. Same with CIG. There is no hard lock at 8, but the further you push things, the worse it obviously becomes. And every additional player increases the rate of degredation. Which is why going from 8->12 is less impressive than 12->16, nevermind '500->504'.
 
If there's something that should be unanimous is that Chris Roberts and Star Citizen are not afraid to take risks. That's another of the reasons of why it got so much backing.

He is risking what exactly? They don't even want to tell bad news just be afraid money stream will stop.
 

Mu77ley

Volunteer Moderator
To be honest Sabre looks like advanced F-14 plane not a spaceship, just look how big are those control surfaces on wings. And how it performs - like a turret I`m sure :)

Yep, exactly the same as every other ship.

[video=youtube;rbUS98hCCy8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbUS98hCCy8[/video]

Pretty much the only difference between all the ships is the DPS. The flight models are all identikit noclip cameras with a cockpit glued to the front.
 
That doesn't look too interesting to me, where the person with the best mouse skills wins. I'm sure I've asked this before but can you go full manual with thrusters aka flight assist off?
 
That doesn't look too interesting to me, where the person with the best mouse skills wins. I'm sure I've asked this before but can you go full manual with thrusters aka flight assist off?

You have 'decoupled' mode, which is roughly speaking SCs' equivalent to ED's 'FA off'. Still, the core difference is that SC seems designed for M&K, whereas ED seems designed for HOTAS (and VR). Still, loads of people play ED with m&k so no problem with having a space game focus on it. NMS doesnt have decent HOTAS gameplay either, and it makes some kind of sense as FPS doesnt work well with HOTAS obviously and many dont have the space for keybord + mouse + HOTAS without swapping controllers all the time. Still, it does mean that SC focusses less on interesting space flight models but more on a 'broader' game with less emphasis on the spaceflight.

Call it "miles wide, inch deep" if you must. ;)
 
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You have 'de-coupled' mode, which is roughly speaking SCs' equivalent to ED's 'FA off'.

No decoupled is basically sticking your ship to a previous flight path while allowing you to rotate on the spot and strafing but still maintaining the original flight path, moreover you can only influence the flight path by side strafing (and up down) but not changing the course of the flight path until you get out from decoupled mode

Basically, decoupled = bsg/b5 backflip assist mode.
 
No decoupled is basically sticking your ship to a previous flight path while allowing you to rotate on the spot and strafing but still maintaining the original flight path, moreover you can only influence the flight path by side strafing (and up down) but not changing the course of the flight path until you get out from decoupled mode

Basically, decoupled = bsg/b5 backflip assist mode.

Yeah, but that is still the equivalent of FA off in SC, right? There is not a third mode that is more free than decoupled, or has that been added later?
 
Are you seriously argueing about how hard it is to make a "be a pilot" game when your entire engine is based on a FPS engine? That comes with most mechanics in a barebone stock function?

CIG have been hard at work for years trying to transform a FPS game engine into a FPS game engine!

Who knows, in a few more years, they might have a FPS game engine!
 
Yeah, but that is still the equivalent of FA off in SC, right? There is not a third mode that is more free than decoupled, or has that been added later?

Afaik no, nothing like ED/I-War assist off mode.

Oh btw for long I've also laughing at the fact that SC doesn't even have any proper developed navigation and exploration system yet, things like map, advanced navigation, docking procedure assistance, radar system, sensory system etc... Yeah they have shown us some things on those area but not only often they looks terrible from usability stand point, there is also this fact that for a game that is claimed to be designed as a BDSSE, they never give heavy coverage that put emphasis on such mechanics, after all these years!

They AND the huge, huge majority of backers clearly have no idea what mechanics are important on vehicle heavy games like a space sim, nevermind one that claimed to be the best.

That is so in very stark contrast with how near perfect ED actually is on those area.
 
As people obviously enjoy the joys of the PU with 10 ship fights on a regular base can anybody provide a link to a video or stream showing any of this fun? Maybe BoredGamer could be hassled to actually provide one of these instead of talking and talking and talking while running promo videos in the background. Theres probably a ton of videos showing these things but my youtube-Fu is weak and the search for "star citizen 10 ships" brings me pages upon pages of advertisement and promo videos about ships and only 1 video claiming to show 10 man boarding action on a starfarer.

I sat through the whole video in order to give you an insight into my thinking and why exactly I suspicious.

Hometeam
dzsta55
tflyingchop
DGodF94
Beninate
DanCheesing


Enemyteam
Skidrat
catnuts
thepackett
Ryboyy +
justjon1007 +
<<enemy players without a "+" are not confirmed>>


???
Amenti
v-e-j
WhyteSnake


5 people visible plus a 6th over in the other ship. Video starts with an enemy team of 5 of which only
2 speak and update the chat, the rest is silent or not logged in anymore bringing the total player count
in the instance up to 7 and 2 ships. A couple minutes into the video a ship "whooses" through the screeb
but its unclear if its an 11th person or just one from either team controlling it for the flyby. At least this
brings the ship count up to 3.


a third and fourth enemy player later in the match update the chat which doesnt bring the player count
up as all other players are out of the screen by now making it possible that one of them simply relogged
to create the "illusion" of more people in the same instance


sound carries through a vacuum :)


Some visible shots outside the ship but nobody on chat being involved in combat or caring to report contact


DanCheesing going EVA proves that crossing the distance takes at best 10 seconds yet at the beginning nobody
sees anyody for minutes and nobody reports entering their ship etc. Actual enemy contact shows 1 single guy but
its so far away that you neither see a nametag nor are able to confirm color. There is no kill confirmation
ingame and whoever is shooting at him from inside the ship could be one of his own guys. It seems the person
he took shots at were from his own team.


Obviously with 10+ players in this instance (13 names total including the chat but the video only advertises
10.....hmmm) there is hardly any action going on. Sure its an entrenched fight but there simply isnt anything
that would support the image of heavy fighting or anything going on at all. Nobody reported a confirmed enemy
kill and the enemy team has a strong defense running yet when Dan later attacks himself all he ever sees is 1
defender (2 at the end when he gets killed)


Through the whole video the most people you can see at any given time are 5, the chat brings the count up to
confirmed 7. "Action" is only ever seen with 3 people max.


Actual combat footage that is visible I cant describe anything other then "spazzing out". Like 2 people running
into each other exchanging short bursts from their weapons then turn and run away to hide somewhere. The defender
never presses on when Dan retreats but rather waits for him to come back or goes deeper into the ship. The whole
fight never shows more then 2 people even tho one of his teammates is "on his way" (which takes roughly 10 seconds
yet never arrives. You also never see the opponents nametag to verify his identity (could be one his own team
dressing in a different outfit). An enemy "push" by the single defender results in Dan clipping through the walls
ending up outside


At all times apart from the very beginning where the team huddles in the cockpit you only ever see vast empty
spaces devoid of players. At the end the camera swivels over a singleseater ship.
Now obviously the instance holds 5 players and 3 ships confirmed but that is all as far as "evidence" goes. You can of course go on and put it all on "faith" but courts and police are expected to be suspicious and would ask the exact same questions and pay attention to the same things I have. You dont go around calling the judge or cops "haters" or "skeptics" right? They only ever become active if somethings is fishy and then they naturally assume somethings up until provided evidence clears the suspect of any guilt. This is the same with Star Citizen and its videos surrounding the project. The video above provides proof for 5 people and 3 ships thats all. Everything else could be orchestrated and an elaborate plan to create an illusion. Gameplay fun is not appearant other then the people in chat making more of anything thats actually there. The suspense created by Dan is rather more capturing then whatever you see but is down to "made-up" fun and nothing else.

This video is the only one trying to provide evidence for 10+ people in the first 13 pages of the youtube hits when searching with the provided parameters. And it fails at that goal. The visuals are great and apart from the clipping and t-posing it doesnt crash a single time which is impressive I think but above all it doesnt live up to its claim.
 
You know.. my kids fight over toys sometimes. I command them once, i command them twice, but on the third time im done listening that and that toy is going away for a week. ;)

But that analogy in this case would be "some kids are playing happily together, a new kid comes into the playground and starts antagonising everyone without provocation, so as a result the teacher calls everyone back into the classroom..." Far better to put the naughty new kid in the cooler and remind the other kids to play nice in my opinion.

Otherwise this thread could be on perma lockdown due to brigading by people who don't like reasonably free speech?
 
As people obviously enjoy the joys of the PU with 10 ship fights on a regular base can anybody provide a link to a video or stream showing any of this fun? Maybe BoredGamer could be hassled to actually provide one of these instead of talking and talking and talking while running promo videos in the background. Theres probably a ton of videos showing these things but my youtube-Fu is weak and the search for "star citizen 10 ships" brings me pages upon pages of advertisement and promo videos about ships and only 1 video claiming to show 10 man boarding action on a starfarer.

I sat through the whole video in order to give you an insight into my thinking and why exactly I suspicious.

Hometeam
dzsta55
tflyingchop
DGodF94
Beninate
DanCheesing


Enemyteam
Skidrat
catnuts
thepackett
Ryboyy +
justjon1007 +
<<enemy players without a "+" are not confirmed>>


???
Amenti
v-e-j
WhyteSnake


5 people visible plus a 6th over in the other ship. Video starts with an enemy team of 5 of which only
2 speak and update the chat, the rest is silent or not logged in anymore bringing the total player count
in the instance up to 7 and 2 ships. A couple minutes into the video a ship "whooses" through the screeb
but its unclear if its an 11th person or just one from either team controlling it for the flyby. At least this
brings the ship count up to 3.


a third and fourth enemy player later in the match update the chat which doesnt bring the player count
up as all other players are out of the screen by now making it possible that one of them simply relogged
to create the "illusion" of more people in the same instance


sound carries through a vacuum :)


Some visible shots outside the ship but nobody on chat being involved in combat or caring to report contact


DanCheesing going EVA proves that crossing the distance takes at best 10 seconds yet at the beginning nobody
sees anyody for minutes and nobody reports entering their ship etc. Actual enemy contact shows 1 single guy but
its so far away that you neither see a nametag nor are able to confirm color. There is no kill confirmation
ingame and whoever is shooting at him from inside the ship could be one of his own guys. It seems the person
he took shots at were from his own team.


Obviously with 10+ players in this instance (13 names total including the chat but the video only advertises
10.....hmmm) there is hardly any action going on. Sure its an entrenched fight but there simply isnt anything
that would support the image of heavy fighting or anything going on at all. Nobody reported a confirmed enemy
kill and the enemy team has a strong defense running yet when Dan later attacks himself all he ever sees is 1
defender (2 at the end when he gets killed)


Through the whole video the most people you can see at any given time are 5, the chat brings the count up to
confirmed 7. "Action" is only ever seen with 3 people max.


Actual combat footage that is visible I cant describe anything other then "spazzing out". Like 2 people running
into each other exchanging short bursts from their weapons then turn and run away to hide somewhere. The defender
never presses on when Dan retreats but rather waits for him to come back or goes deeper into the ship. The whole
fight never shows more then 2 people even tho one of his teammates is "on his way" (which takes roughly 10 seconds
yet never arrives. You also never see the opponents nametag to verify his identity (could be one his own team
dressing in a different outfit). An enemy "push" by the single defender results in Dan clipping through the walls
ending up outside


At all times apart from the very beginning where the team huddles in the cockpit you only ever see vast empty
spaces devoid of players. At the end the camera swivels over a singleseater ship.
Now obviously the instance holds 5 players and 3 ships confirmed but that is all as far as "evidence" goes. You can of course go on and put it all on "faith" but courts and police are expected to be suspicious and would ask the exact same questions and pay attention to the same things I have. You dont go around calling the judge or cops "haters" or "skeptics" right? They only ever become active if somethings is fishy and then they naturally assume somethings up until provided evidence clears the suspect of any guilt. This is the same with Star Citizen and its videos surrounding the project. The video above provides proof for 5 people and 3 ships thats all. Everything else could be orchestrated and an elaborate plan to create an illusion. Gameplay fun is not appearant other then the people in chat making more of anything thats actually there. The suspense created by Dan is rather more capturing then whatever you see but is down to "made-up" fun and nothing else.

This video is the only one trying to provide evidence for 10+ people in the first 13 pages of the youtube hits when searching with the provided parameters. And it fails at that goal. The visuals are great and apart from the clipping and t-posing it doesnt crash a single time which is impressive I think but above all it doesnt live up to its claim.

Alright, I'm gonna go right ahead and say it:

Who cares?

Seriously. Who cares if there are 8, 9, 10 or 11 people in an instance? Its such an arbitrary thing to focus on, just let it go. Because any which way, the player count isn't even remotely close to what is needed for the promised gameplay. Not even the biggest SC shill pretends the game supports the player count needed, not even remotely in any way. So who cares about whether it is 8 or 12, its vastly insufficient and that is the point.
 
You know.. my kids fight over toys sometimes. I command them once, i command them twice, but on the third time im done listening that and that toy is going away for a week. ;)

nice try and exactly why we have white knights coming here in the first place I guess :)
 
nice try and exactly why we have white knights coming here in the first place I guess :)
They are funny though - it's just so blatant with the massive effort posts and lack of actual evidence at every turn.

As said I really look forwards to 3.0. New content from Major Tom and a few weeks of fun going over the crazy claims we've had about what'll be in it, what's missing from it and the dawn of the 3.1 Jesus Patch claims.... it'll be great!

Really looking forwards to Asp's expert analyses of the memory handling for whole planetsmini-moons worth of map. We can then make guesstimates of the nightmarish load requirements of a whole star system full of wreckage and actual orbiting bodies made up of interconnected wrecks that should, by all accounts, be fully explorable if their claims are honest and genuine. Nothing unbelievable about that at all
 
No decoupled is basically sticking your ship to a previous flight path while allowing you to rotate on the spot and strafing but still maintaining the original flight path, moreover you can only influence the flight path by side strafing (and up down) but not changing the course of the flight path until you get out from decoupled mode

Basically, decoupled = bsg/b5 backflip assist mode.

I think that neatly answers my question, sort of. And thanks, didn't spot that.

However if you are strafing up, down, left and right, you ARE altering your flight path, if only by small amounts. Thrust up long enough and this should be visible, or have they somehow found a way to mess that up as well. <shakes head>
 
Alright, I'm gonna go right ahead and say it:

Who cares?

Seriously. Who cares if there are 8, 9, 10 or 11 people in an instance? Its such an arbitrary thing to focus on, just let it go. Because any which way, the player count isn't even remotely close to what is needed for the promised gameplay. Not even the biggest SC shill pretends the game supports the player count needed, not even remotely in any way. So who cares about whether it is 8 or 12, its vastly insufficient and that is the point.

I am not nitpicking. The example provided instead gives the impression that a group of people deliberately try to create the impression of something and sell that as evidence. The author of this video simply claims "we had boarding action with 10 people" then never provides the proof for it or delivers on that claim. The analogy to CiG and the PU is appareant I think. Paying attention to these details will establish a degree of credibility for future reference. In the big picture 8, 9 or 11 are not important as you say but the video tries to sell 10 players and cant. And this for a video which tries to support and demonstrate the capability ingame. It fails. Due to the lack of priorities or just bad luck I dont know. Still. Its the only video when we have multiple people claiming to do this stuff all the time. The "investigation" if you so will was therefore given as an example why I dont believe the hype. Not because I chose to and simply want CiG to fail so I am blind to facts and evidence. I dont believe it because I cannot find evidence for claims thats all be it funny gameplay or incredible netcode feats.

I agree with everything you say yet we have people claiming that Star Citizen already enables smooth and stable gameplay with 10 people (or 24) so the project is on a good way. Debunking the first claim instead shows that Star Citizen is currently NOT showing the progress and gameplay claimed which makes the following conclusion (SC will be great because we already have.....) void. And thats an important thing I think.
 
They are funny though - it's just so blatant with the massive effort posts and lack of actual evidence at every turn.

As said I really look forwards to 3.0. New content from Major Tom and a few weeks of fun going over the crazy claims we've had about what'll be in it, what's missing from it and the dawn of the 3.1 Jesus Patch claims.... it'll be great!

Really looking forwards to Asp's expert analyses of the memory handling for whole planetsmini-moons worth of map. We can then make guesstimates of the nightmarish load requirements of a whole star system full of wreckage and actual orbiting bodies made up of interconnected wrecks that should, by all accounts, be fully explorable if their claims are honest and genuine. Nothing unbelievable about that at all

...dont forget the millions of AI controlled NPCs as reported in by a developer on Spektrum.
 
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