Still no VR improvements, still unplayable

I can't even imagine playing with my broken DK1 or my Nexus7 mod without this zoom thing on... I really didn't want to play on a monitor. I guess, once you take the proverbial vr red pill, there is no going back to the old ways...

On a side note, happy new year, everyone! I wish I could publish the executables right now, but I think I'll wait for a dev to reply to our threads first before moving forward...

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I mentioned you in another post, nice work. You really should just release it. At worst you're going to get asked to take it down (and they have no legal grounds to force you to) and at best someone at Frontier might acknowledge your efforts and all of us will have a better experience.

I don't really think it's cheating, either. These ships are designed to be flown from sensors for the most part and the point-and-click-pew-pew part doesn't happen until the very end. Zooming in won't give anyone on desktop any kind of advantage over someone using sensors, but it'll certainly level the playing field for people on low resolution devices.


You might be right about that, I might be overly cautious here. I'll think about this. Maybe you guys will see the source and/or exe appearing online very soon! I'll certainly tell u guys when that happens.

Canid
 
This community is pretty toxic. Most replies to this thread are along the lines of "waaa it's fine get lost". You don't like complaining?

I just got here and it really seems that way. People keep stating that the DK2 is a beta, like that means Frontier can't or shouldn't attempt to fix any issues with it. That's kinda what a beta is for.

Then there's others who believe such simple things as in-game GUI colour settings are an unreasonable thing to ask Frontier to add. Which makes me wonder if or why they're in possession of hardware meant for developers.
 
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First, the Elite producers "added" Oculus Rift support as a new technological innovation and a new exciting way, to experience a space flight game, it's not a main feature of the game - but i'm glad, they've decided to let Dev-Kit-OC owners experience a full working game and AAA title ! Thanks Frontier !

The UI and text is definitely harder or easier to read, depending on the resolution, quality and frame rate in the special Oculus Rift menu settings. But with the DK2 and it's camera you can move towards a hard readable text part to make it clearer.
But that's not the Elite developers fault. The only reason is the still not yet good enough resolution of the DK2 (if someone uses DK1 it's much worse). But therefore the DK2 is what it is - it's a developement kit, not yet ready for market and full gameplay fun. If you've decided, to buy a DK2, then you were willing to test this new technical device, taking into account the known and described flaws, it still has. So you can't ask for a perfect gameplay experience for now, since you are just basicly a hardware tester, simply said ...

But once you will be using the DK2 more often, you will get used to those flaws and your eye sight, brain and so on will try to make the best out of it - your senses just have to get used to them. If you put the DK2 on and are awaiting a perfect clear wonderful visual experience, then you were totally wrong, to buy this Dev-Kit and not waiting for the commercial version.

I've got used to the visual flaws now using it since August 14 - testing it, too, with many other demos, experiences and so on.
Once you are getting used to the less resolution display, your brain will start automatically to fill in some missing info, meaning you will learn to make more out of what you see, then there really is. You have to learn and train your brain and eyes, to "see more".

It depends on, too, on the resolution settings. I play with 1920x1200 or 1920x2000 - the even higher resolution gives me more jitter effects (but mainly being inside a station or hangar, not in the open universe and flight, there it's nice and fast) - the highest setting 2560x1440 i probably could use with a better graphic card to make use of supersampling or downsampling, whatever, i guess a GTX970 would do it, i'm using a GTX770 right now.
The higher you set the resolution in the DK2 setting, the better the downsampled graphics on the DK2 screen resolution will look like, the more details will be seen. Because the internal set highest resolution will give the visualy seen resolution more information and this way more options, to select the best information usable on the lower hardware screen of the DK2.

I play mostly in online mode - and it probably depends on, in what area you are operating inside the game, meaning, the more players are in a star system, the more lag you could experience, if you fly in more remote areas and systems, there should be no problem. I'm right now staying in a more lonely area, not really know by many players and i have a nice smooth running Elite game in online mode, doing mining right now in a ring system of a gas planet and the station to sell my stuff is just a flight minute in super cruise away - making average 150k or more in about 2 hours of mining work - mostly looking (and finding :) ) silver, palladium, platin, gold (using a Cobra with 24 cargo spots).
And with the DK2 it makes me feel really flying through all those floating, rotating rocks and enjoy the sight of the huge gas planet or the stars and milky way band around ! I play it too on normal 2D screen - and i know it's crisp and clear there, but i look at a monitor and the room around me is always there - i look out of a window to the right and see a garden ... I know i don't have the resolution in the DK2 yet, to compete, but the feeling of being in my spaceship and flying through space is unbeaten.

If the consumer version of the Oculus Rift will be released with good resolution (lots of details, good readable text) and faster framerate settings possible (even smoother, no jitter in stations maybe), then i know already now, that it will be working, because i'm testing right know with the DK2.

You are using the mouse ?? For what reason ? I'm using a Saitek X52 controller system - the immersion with a system like that is just perfect in Elite, because it relates exactly in it's look, feel and positioning to what you see in your cockpit and your virtual pilot body is holding and using. Most of the needed controls can be mapped on those many buttons and coolie hats, and for a easier way of handling i'm using a cheap voice controlling software called "Voice Attack" - it only costs about 8 Euro or Dollars and it's worth more then it costs. It reacts really exact and fast, understands most orders added flawlessly. I use it for instance to raise or lower the gears, open close the cargo scoop, boost control - but i have a setup long order list with many orders setup for voice control, but since i have many on the X52 controller, i only need a few orders to be spoken - even i can give all orders by voice, i find it quicker and easier (for your voice) to use the buttons on the controllers.
So - i never use the mouse at all, when i play Elite with DK2 - only to start the game, yes.

About extended or direct mode, i gave an answer in a post before ...

I dont agree with you. You dont have right.
I testing DK2 an Star Conflict on steam ( try - free to play ) and I must say that fonts is much better and Graphics is more clear.
and respect for programmers around but it still need to work out because not only wine to small resolution Dk2. Problem is in the game code.
 
I dont agree with you. You dont have right.
I testing DK2 an Star Conflict on steam ( try - free to play ) and I must say that fonts is much better and Graphics is more clear.
and respect for programmers around but it still need to work out because not only wine to small resolution Dk2. Problem is in the game code.

The problem is that they are still winding down from the holiday rush to release their gem, and so they haven't had time to address those issues yet. Also note that the problem lies with their aliasing, and the only way to make it better would be for them to either implement sub-sampling within the engine code itself, or do some tweaks not at the pixel shader stage but before that, which is quite a bit of work involved, probably... Let us give them a bit of a slack, they still have time to improve lots of things. In the meantime, the best solution is probably to double your monitor resolution using your video card driver, if that is an option for you (not for me unfortunately)...

Note that this isn't the only game with anti-aliasing problems. One that struck my mind recently is the Oculus mode for DCS:World, where aliasing (at least in DK1 mode) is pretty bad as well. Maybe all those devs focus on DK2 and up, and just neglect legacy hardware from last year. In either case, I will probably try to implement a new shader code on the SBS mode of DCS in order to solve those issues, as I take that game at heart as well...

In any case, I think that focusing on DK2 upwards might be a mistake, because a lot of game buzz is generated by Oculus users, be it those who splurged on a brand new DK2, or those who tried the DK1 a year ago (i.e. the original Kickstarter user base). In any case, a lot of creativity and innovation in the gaming world was mustered by those very DK1 users last year, as one can see when looking at the sheer rate of demos that were released on RiftEnabled last year... So for marketing purposes, I'd say that it would be a wise move to cater to them as well.

White Canid
 
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Still watching the video, but very impressive work.

Might have to re-watch the video, but in essence are you simply changing FOV dynamically? I've occasionally wondered why Frontier haven't offered an actual zoom component that one could buy and equip to your ship that would allow users to zoom/scope in on distant objects. What you've developed appears slightly different as it allows zooming on the whole screen so that the cockpit itself can become larger in the view, something that would be very useful for any Rift users.


The whole process look a little bit too complex to be user friendly at the moment, but maybe that can be streamlined for actual Oculus Rift? Of course there is no reason why Frontier couldn't just implement some dynamic zoom function within the game for the Rift, but I guess people may cry fowl, thinking it gives an unfair advantage.

To answer your question, yes I am changing the FOV dynamically, using a sigmoid interpolation curve to emulate the "Battlestar Galactica" combat zoom SFX. So, as a matter of fact it is equivalent to a true scoping zoom feature. I like to consider it as a futuristic Geordi Laforge visor helmet mod :) The mod currently hardcodes keys F1 to F5 to the zoom levels.

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You mentioned in the video about zooming in to the menus to read them. The DK2 allows for just that with the positional tracking. The zoom feature for out of cockpit stuff like you have, I would consider it cheating.

As for the OP: You bought experimental hardware, to play a game using experimental implementation.. and you're complaining about the quality? So what that you would pay almost $1000 USD for a high quality headset. Better to sell to 10 people for $400 than to 3 people for $800.

For DK2 users, yes. But there are more than 50000 DK1 users left out in the cold, and I am one of them

As for cheating, currently I am dynamically capping the minimum FOV depending on your screen resolution and whether you are using SBS vs normal mode (which halves your horizontal resolution). So if you already have measures in place to enhance your vision, with a high res monitor/ supersampling anti-aliasing, the mod will auto-cap you to lower FOV levels so that you cannot possibly get better vision than someone with state of the art monitors (say retina style resolution).

Ofc hackers could modify my mod itself to bypass that, but then again, hackers can do anything they like without anything impeding them.
 
Except the bit where you get two screens per eye rather than one per eye. Ext mode is broken.

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I'm talking about the Elite Dangerous developers. Nobody else is qualified or even able to rework the UI scale so that it works with the rift. Nobody else apart from one modder who won't release his patch have gotten a zoom function working.

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The consumer version is going to be exactly the same res, but with less visible pixel grid. The experience we're having now is the final experience minus some black lines.

My issue isn't with the DK2 - I've created simulations that overcome all of the issues associated with a low res display. It's just that the ED developers don't seem to be addressing those same issues.

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The IPD is set correctly. I wish I could take a screenshot but we're obviously miles apart in terms of playability. (Edit: I attached a screenshot a couple of posts below). Yes, I definitely have a DK2. I'm a developer as well so quite likely not . ;) I've used a DK1 as well and there's a vast and obvious difference between the two.

I've adjusted the HUD colours and it improved things slightly. I still have to lean in to read any text.

I'm happy to tell you, Antidamage, that you convinced me. The executables are now live on the Youtube video description.

As usual, all disclaimers concerning warranty/functionality applies: i.e. it could detonate a nuclear bomb near your house. Caveat emptor.

Have fun, guys!

Oh and also: Elite Devs, now's the time to say something. Quoting cheesy wedding lines: now's the time to object, or to be silent forever.
 
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I'm happy to tell you, Antidamage, that you convinced me. The executables are now live on the Youtube video description.

As usual, all disclaimers concerning warranty/functionality applies: i.e. it could detonate a nuclear bomb near your house. Caveat emptor.

Have fun, guys!

Oh and also: Elite Devs, now's the time to say something. Quoting cheesy wedding lines: now's the time to object, or to be silent forever.

Personally I don't see why they should reply. I've been playing the "unplayable" vr and loving it. I tried playing 2d the other day and it was just pathetic seeming. I'm not saying the vr is perfect but its pretty damn good.
 
Personally I don't see why they should reply. I've been playing the "unplayable" vr and loving it. I tried playing 2d the other day and it was just pathetic seeming. I'm not saying the vr is perfect but its pretty damn good.

True that. I can't play the game in 2D either, even with my low-res broken DK1 or my Nexus 7 rig. Once you swallow that red pill, there is no going back.

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Personally I don't see why they should reply. I've been playing the "unplayable" vr and loving it. I tried playing 2d the other day and it was just pathetic seeming. I'm not saying the vr is perfect but its pretty damn good.

And... I guess they should reply if they consider my mod as being abusive to their game. However, considering that it could make a lot of DK1/DK2 users happy, I can only see it helping them, personally...
 
And... I guess they should reply if they consider my mod as being abusive to their game. However, considering that it could make a lot of DK1/DK2 users happy, I can only see it helping them, personally...

I personally don't like mods in a game that involves pvp, for what should be obvious reasons. I can't say though for me that hitting at max weapon range is a problem even in the DK2. Just aim between the markers, you will hit it.
 
I personally don't like mods in a game that involves pvp, for what should be obvious reasons. I can't say though for me that hitting at max weapon range is a problem even in the DK2. Just aim between the markers, you will hit it.

True, thanks to the auto-aim (which you can see in action towards the end of the video I posted). Still pretty hard to do on a DK1 or cardboard rift, though. And that's not counting the menu readability issue...

But that auto-aim thing also means that there is no real advantage in using zoom (especially since the min FOV is capped at higher resolutions). So it is really more usable mainly in a non PvP context (especially since turning fights are impossible to manage at higher zoom levels).
 
Yada Yada Whine Whine Moan. I've been tracking this thread for a week or so... here's my 10 pence (or 10 cents for those in the land of Stars and Stripes).

Ok - I have a DK2, taken the red pill and it's the only way to fly. Sorry, it does work and it's very very usable. Going back to the 2D version of ED, even with the better graphics detail, it's a total turn off now (and I don't have a spare room to implement the three projector solution I saw on YouTube the other day)...

The immersion is totally and wonderfully cool. To the FD developers - THANKS. Nothing else comes close to DK2 immersion apart from ED.

The bad
- You need at least a GTX 970 to make it smooth.
- I had an AMD R9 270X and it was painful with a Cobra. Sidewinder and Hauler were just about OK on low settings.
- DSR is definitely judderful (even with overclocking). I've been messing with this for a few weeks and I have never found a suitable DSR multiplier that works judder free and makes the text readable.
- Some of the landing bay numbers are very hard to read, but due to the landing bay bug (where the lights disappear), I've been relying on the compass... so it's no longer an issue for me.
- Text in red on the comms is also very hard to read... time to peer, but that's small beer for me at the moment.
- Galaxy map is a pain.

The Good
- Green HUD - do it and enjoy clearer text.
- Tracking targets and approaching stations in SC mode - wow, this is the only way to fly.
- The Galaxy map is a lot more usable if you use the Xbox 360 controller (I have a flightstick plugged in as well for regular flight).
- It just works... and for a dev kit, that is pretty darn good. And lets not forget that this IS a dev kit and FD did not need to implement the VR side of things at all...

My rig - i5 4670K, 8GB mem, SSD, BitFenix Prodigy Case, Gigabyte G1 GTX 970.
- DK2 is primary screen (main screen switches off when I switch on the DK2).
- MSI Afterburner off (it seems to increase judder with this on).
- Running at standard res. Custom settings: DK2 slider to max, max settings on all apart from Blur, Shadow and Bloom, which are off.

I'm thinking back two years to when I first signed up to the Kickstarter... I was happy to pay to see another version of Elite using modern tech. The DK2 is totally the icing on the cake. It's made my Xmas this year...
 
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Yada Yada Whine Whine Moan. I've been tracking this thread for a week or so... here's my 10 pence (or 10 cents for those in the land of Stars and Stripes).

Ok - I have a DK2, taken the red pill and it's the only way to fly. Sorry, it does work and it's very very usable. Going back to the 2D version of ED, even with the better graphics detail, it's a total turn off now (and I don't have a spare room to implement the three projector solution I saw on YouTube the other day)...

The immersion is totally and wonderfully cool. To the FD developers - THANKS. Nothing else comes close to DK2 immersion apart from ED.

The bad
- You need at least a GTX 970 to make it smooth.
- I had an AMD R9 270X and it was painful with a Cobra. Sidewinder and Hauler were just about OK on low settings.
- DSR is definitely judderful (even with overclocking). I've been messing with this for a few weeks and I have never found a suitable DSR multiplier that works judder free and makes the text readable.
- Some of the landing bay numbers are very hard to read, but due to the landing bay bug (where the lights disappear), I've been relying on the compass... so it's no longer an issue for me.
- Text in red on the comms is also very hard to read... time to peer, but that's small beer for me at the moment.
- Galaxy map is a pain.

The Good
- Green HUD - do it and enjoy clearer text.
- Tracking targets and approaching stations in SC mode - wow, this is the only way to fly.
- The Galaxy map is a lot more usable if you use the Xbox 360 controller (I have a flightstick plugged in as well for regular flight).
- It just works... and for a dev kit, that is pretty darn good. And lets not forget that this IS a dev kit and FD did not need to implement the VR side of things at all...

My rig - i5 4670K, 8GB mem, SSD, BitFenix Prodigy Case, Gigabyte G1 GTX 970.
- DK2 is primary screen (main screen switches off when I switch on the DK2).
- MSI Afterburner off (it seems to increase judder with this on).
- Running at standard res. Custom settings: DK2 slider to max, max settings on all apart from Blur, Shadow and Bloom, which are off.

I'm thinking back two years to when I first signed up to the Kickstarter... I was happy to pay to see another version of Elite using modern tech. The DK2 is totally the icing on the cake. It's made my Xmas this year...


Amen to that, my brotha.

Hell I think that it was a worthy Xmas gift even with a DK1 and a cardboard Rift.
 
You know, this looks more like an Oculus issue, and not an elite dangerous issue. How can they make texts 'better' with the limited resolution, other than changing colors?
 
Just move the problem holograms a little closer/bigger to the player. panels like fuel/power and target info could be easily expanded, since they don't have to fit inside the frame of a monitor any more.

Like seriously, unless Frontier made a mess with how the assets are organised, it wouldn't be a hard fix.
 
You need at least a GTX 970 to make it smooth.

Totally agree with everything you said. Amen.

But I don't know why people keep saying this... I have a GTX 760 and mine runs smooth as anything at 1920x1080 with SMAA on and everything max.
 
OP, perhaps you should lower you expectations. You are complaining about hardware that is only in development stage where the manufacturer has explicitly warned non developer types to not purchase it. Frontier have added a experimental VR Mode to Elite: Dangerous, 'experimental' could mean a number of things, one of which could be "Not complete" (worse still some experiments are never completed and abandoned).

Personally I play for hours without any issues reading text or being bothered by the resolution or ships HUD size, I dog fight well also. I knew what I was buying into, what kind of experience to expect and that there are areas which could be improved upon. Clearly you did not. Things may get better with time, be it in terms of Frontier conducting further VR experimentation, improving on what they have or be it Oculus releasing the CV1 and the better resolution fixing the issues you raise (but then hundreds of posts get raised in which people moan about low frame rates...).

Many of us on this forum are aware of numerous VR issues (can't believe no one has mentioned the image doubling when you get 1KM behind a large ship for example). However we are also aware that the mode is experimental and should improve over time once the bigger fish have been fried. For now enjoy the game and VR for what it offers, if you cannot move on for a month or two (or more) and then come back and see if anything has improved.
 
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Totally agree with everything you said. Amen.

But I don't know why people keep saying this... I have a GTX 760 and mine runs smooth as anything at 1920x1080 with SMAA on and everything max.

No offence meant but I do not believe this!. have you actually checked your fps in stations and asteroid belts?.

PS you do know you are in the VR forum right? I assume you are not meaning 1920x1080 on a monitor which is a completely different beast to VR
 
There is nothing wrong with the game. FD are developing elite, not the rift. The reason you are having these problems is because the DK2 has only a small 2 screens. Wait for 1440p screens or 4k...
 
I just need better performance and an optimized galaxy/system map for VR, nothing more.

Rest is perfect from Frontiers side.
 
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