Nice find! If you haven't already, it might be worth adding to the ticket and quoting your findings - it may well help the old chaps at Frontier Towers crack the problem!I'd like to preface this by asking, please let's not start a "this would be easy to fix" routebut I present for information's sake something I've noticed.
As has been noted the issue happens at variants of :x5 minutes, there's something in the netlog called GPSS that happens around these times. GPSS seems to basically be a way of queuing transactions to happen at regular intervals, though how it's used in Elite we obviously don't know.
I looked in my Netlog from last night and it was littered with references to it, after the initial run on loading in, they are all at a minute ending in 5. One query for it alone contained a repeated part (probably the actual transaction part?) 106 times.
I did some further digging through old netlogs, found some comparable ones and searched the whole document for GPSS
July last year (pre PP2.0) in a 1 hour 20 minute session there were 26 hits for GPSS
November 2nd (post PP2.0) in a 1 hour 30 minute session there were 345 hits for GPSS
Yesterday (post Colonisation) in a 1 hour session there were 1,664 hits for GPSS
So while doing a similar thing (a few runs of a Buckyball race) since pre Power Play 2.0 there are now 64 times the amount of these transfers being made. And as Colonisation and PP2.0 grow, so will these numbers.
Sudden judder or momentary freeze
- Thread starter Tyres O'Flaherty
- Start date
What a shame that the way bug reporting and tracking is set up, FDev will probably never be aware of this.
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
Yes I have and mentioned where they can see it
I imagine they know better than any of us what is going on.
Oh, cool bananas.
We're in third position on top-voted confirmed (well, that's how I'm reading it anyway! ) 
We're in third position on top-voted confirmed (well, that's how I'm reading it anyway!
) 
Oh, cool bananas.
We're in third position on top-voted confirmed (well, that's how I'm reading it anyway!
View attachment 424861
And yet somehow still not in Acknowledged status.
Wow, that's... a lot. Looks like you've nailed at least one - if not the - problem.
It may indeed be hard to fix because I would tend to agree that if FD have looked at this problem at all, they have probably already spotted the same correlation.
I've just looked in my own netlogs - no GPSS at all. But then my juddering/stuttering hasn't lined up with the 5-minute intervals, unlike many here.
yeah it's weird imo , because like for example i've been experiencing this very VERY annoying "bug" literally like clockwork hitting at approximately 5 minutes before the start of new hour AND then later at approximately 15 minutes after the hour. Constantly, same routine, every hour.
( *the worst is when it just happens to fall during combat and/or landing at a windy ground base
)However, what's weird is a couple other players i been chatting with ingame have never experienced this "micro stutter" situation at all. Ever.
./shrug
Yep, that GPSS regular update needs to be on a separate thread, asynchronous, and opportunistic. I don't know how far along that list FDev have got, and depending what it's reporting on this might be quite difficult to achieve, because even when it's on a separate thread you've still got to talk to all the relevant game threads at least once in every five minute window somehow. And then changing the logic to deal with updates that might arrive 1 minute or 9 minutes apart is even harder, but that's really the only way you'll be able to have the game engine wait until things are quiet, instead of interrupting an intense moment with background upload nonsense.
Guess another option is breaking the logic out into a series of smaller updates which it cycles around.
Worth remembering this was even worse in the original U19 and the first hotfix did... Something. But then U20 made the universe more complicated again!
[There ya go Ozric I said it would be difficult to fix ]
Guess another option is breaking the logic out into a series of smaller updates which it cycles around.
Worth remembering this was even worse in the original U19 and the first hotfix did... Something. But then U20 made the universe more complicated again!
[There ya go Ozric I said it would be difficult to fix
]Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
Not having any is strange as it's been run on initial login since at least 2021 (that's as far back as my netlogs go as I lost the old ones in a PC swap)
Although I am experiencing the issue. I'm not pledged to PowerPlay, never have been.
I'm not pledged but I do get this a lot. Yesterday, some of the jitters were really bad and I was only in the FSS
Just checked my netLogs too ...I'd like to preface this by asking, please let's not start a "this would be easy to fix" route
As has been noted the issue happens at variants of :x5 minutes, there's something in the netlog called GPSS that happens around these times. GPSS seems to basically be a way of queuing transactions to happen at regular intervals, though how it's used in Elite we obviously don't know.
I looked in my Netlog from last night and it was littered with references to it, after the initial run on loading in, they are all at a minute ending in 5. One query for it alone contained a repeated part (probably the actual transaction part?) 106 times.
I did some further digging through old netlogs, found some comparable ones and searched the whole document for GPSS
July last year (pre PP2.0) in a 1 hour 20 minute session there were 26 hits for GPSS
November 2nd (post PP2.0) in a 1 hour 30 minute session there were 345 hits for GPSS
Yesterday (post Colonisation) in a 1 hour session there were 1,664 hits for GPSS
So while doing a similar thing (a few runs of a Buckyball race) since pre Power Play 2.0 there are now 64 times the amount of these transfers being made. And as Colonisation and PP2.0 grow, so will these numbers.
edit
Pre PP2.0 the transaction was only made on log in.
This morning I had horrible stuttering at 5 past and some other 5 min intervals.
Random check of previous netLogs also showed no entries for "GPSS".
Only strange thing I see repeatedly is "bad xml in message, trying JSON" ... I have no idea if that could be relevant.
EDIT: BTW, no I am not and have never been pledged to any of the megalomaniacs.
FURTHER EDIT - upon sorting out (properly) verbose logging the dreaded GPSS was everywhere....
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Thanks for the confirmation.I'm not pledged but I do get this a lot. Yesterday, some of the jitters were really bad and I was only in the FSS
Some of us were sending FDEV netlog dumps while playing during the problem. The key combo is mentioned way back in this thread. The silence from Frontier on this matter has been deafening for over four months. This is simply not good enough. New ships locked behind a paywall, new ships which I cannot use, as immersion goes out the window when many players are getting these game freezes which are horrid during combat.
Some facts. The game can run on my 4 year old system locked to 60fps with suitable graphics settings. As the freezes/stutters happen at semi predictable times, with no spikes in CPU or memory use means only one thing. Bad netcode SERVER SIDE.
FDev need to pull the finger out...
Ozric
Volunteer Moderator
There are quite a few cancellations and errors in the xml unfortunately yes. But it's interesting you don't have GPSS either. I do have Verbose Logging turned on in an AppConfigLocal.xml file, so it's reckon it's because of that. Mine looks like this.
Obviously if you're on an IPv6 connection it would need to be different. To be honest you could probably just put the verbose logging in.
You can just add the Verbose logging to the main AppConfig.xml, but it will be removed every time the game updates which is why I've put it in a local file.
"Windy ground base?" Huh? There's no wind in the game...yeah it's weird imo , because like for example i've been experiencing this very VERY annoying "bug" literally like clockwork hitting at approximately 5 minutes before the start of new hour AND then later at approximately 15 minutes after the hour. Constantly, same routine, every hour.
( *the worst is when it just happens to fall during combat and/or landing at a windy ground base
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
It's not really a dump, it just creates a tag in the network logs. The can see these tags and look at whatever happened at that time.
Ctrl+L basically tells them "Look here in the network logs!".
sorry i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not lol and i don't want to assume , cuz typical forums misinterpretations, tone, etc.
But if you're being serious, yes i have indeed been to quite a few ground bases ( including an Engineer one ) where my ship swayed side to side on approach WITH windy whooshing sounds too.
So yeah, combine that ^ with this "micro stutter" thing and it makes for very nervous pilot with much Cartogrophies data needing to turn-in after long trip
You can't have wind on an airless planet... It seems to me that Fdev said it was just some sort of control loss as you take a large ship and slow it down. Been a long time but I'm pretty sure that is what the stated.sorry i can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not lol and i don't want to assume , cuz typical forums misinterpretations, tone, etc.
But if you're being serious, yes i have indeed been to quite a few ground bases ( including an Engineer one ) where my ship swayed side to side on approach WITH windy whooshing sounds too.
So yeah, combine that ^ with this "micro stutter" thing and it makes for very nervous pilot with much Cartogrophies data needing to turn-in after long trip
Remember, there is no sound in a vacuum... The sounds you here are added to enhance the game.
uhh thankyou Neil Degrasse Tyson , but i'm already aware of how space & simulations work lol
So you questioned me, in order to space-splain "correct" me, only to then correct yourself by stating it's just a slightly inaccurate video game ( cuz reasons aka player immersion ) which of course therefore validates my original description you first questioned. -- Forums are the best!
( no i'm not "mad" i'm just pilot-to-pilot teasin' ya abit CMDR , o7 , /ducks )
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Back on-topic: FDev silence = micro-stuttering issue will be fixed with upcoming Vanguards patch! /discuss