[SUGGESTION] How To Revive CQC! (PVP Arena)

[Agony_Aunt]

CQC is PvP mode. If it's not your thing then don't play it.

Good thing about Elite Dangerous is that there are many things you can do in the game and everybody can find something for themselves. Why you want to make CQC another PvE game and ruin it for other players that actually enjoy the fact CQC is a PvP game?

Just go to Combat Zones in the main game. All NPCs are waiting for you and no power ups there.

Don't have to ruin it for PvP players. You can have non-bot mode, where its just players, and bot mode where its PvE. Bot mode could also be useful for people to learn the ropes of CQC before going into the no-Bots mode.

Combat zones in the main game are the antithesis of CQC. CQC is fast paced, CZs are slug fests.

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

I think the following are the issues with CQC as it stands:

A) Matchmaking is, on some level, broken. How much of this is down to coding problems, and how much is because of the system struggling with such a small playerbase, I have no idea. Whatever the balance, the results for first-time players speak for themselves; you spend ages waiting for a match, and when you do finally get a match, you're highly likely to be thrown into an arena with much more experienced opponents, who may or may not take your lack of experience into account. I suspect that this is a highly discouraging introduction for many new players, especially those who are unaware of how third-party platforms are being used for organising matches in an attempt to circumvent CQC's shortcomings.

B) Lack of stability over multiple matches. For whatever reason, CQC has a distinct tendency to cack itself when played over multiple matches (the infamous "matchmaking error"), which adds additional unnecessary tedium to the process.

The matchmaking system to be significantly altered, or replaced with something that is agnostic to the total number of players online at the time, such as a system that assigns handicaps and/or advantages depending on the relative experience levels of each player in any given match. The stability needs to be improved, as part of a wider QoL sweep over CQC in general.

After that, we would then be in a better position to determine what if any other features need to be altered, removed, or added.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

So if you don't like PvP don't play CQC. I see no issue.

And at the end you just say "let CQC die". Why? If it's not your thing why you want it to die for the players that love it?

i dont want to let it die you are totally missrepresenting what i said, FD are the ones seemingly letting CQC die, with them not fixing issues with it and not adding anything to it at all. i want to be able to play it without waiting ages for a game, without matchmaking errors screwing it all up after eventually getting a game as well as play it with friends who are a similar level to me and not go into it with completely new players and them have to get absolutely owned by players such as yourself (not blaming you, its the nature of the mode).
FWIW i have played against you on occasion and there is no doubt you are better at it than i am, tho i got a few kills in as well..... but as long as there are only a few players playing then the matchmaking cannot work,

Am not sure it would affect you much anyway if your goal is a competitive PvP environment and not just kerb stomping the odd new player who comes in and then who quickly leaves.
as it stands no one i know will play CQC as it is now....... so either way these players are not playing CQC.

if there are enough "skilled" in your words PvP players for you to play with then where is the harm in letting lesser scrubs play at a lower level with each other or with bots?

 

[MUSKETEER]

So basically you want a Private Group CQC where nobody can actually see what you do there. It opens window to cheating - rank, squadron leaderboards by i.e. farming your own alts - that's not PvP anymore, there is just one player in such a match. And we've seen many people try to do it. Some had 7 alt accounts trying to block other players from joining and exposing them. There was even one player that farmed his alts all the way to CQC Elite until he eventually got caught doing it (got caught not by me, some other player found him accidentally when one of the alts accidentally dropped out and the guy join the match and gathered the evidence). You can search for it. That guy had ridiculous stats K/D 254.0 etc. But he got greedy for more and got caught.

Sure there would be a small group of legit players who would play with friends. But the majority would exploit it. I've played CQC for 6 years and throughout years I've learn a lot about people characters in this game. And vast majority unfortunatelly would cheat they way through ranks without blinking if they could get away with it.

There is a great place for people playing CQC only for fun - it's Legacy CQC. But personally I don't believe in existence of people playing CQC only for fun, after all they refuse to play Legacy CQC. Why? Because no rank progression, no trophies etc. I play only Live version of CQC because I like the competitive aspects of the game, fighting all kinds of opponents, squadron leaderboards etc.

Considering that many people come to CQC only for rank and they hate PvP of any kind, giving them option to be locked with own alt without anyone knowing they do it, they will just do it. And instead of more players there will be less, because those who really want to learn, get better and play with real opponents are few. After all real opponents hinder rank progression, afk alts don't.. it's just a ride from one non-moving ship to another to blow them up for XP.

I think if you don't like generic PvP then CQC really isn't for you. Why bother?

I don't like Exploration and Exobiology, but I don't go to Exploration and Exobiology threads / topics to say I hate it and it should just die or be removed from the game. It's not my cup of tea then I don't play it. Other people can just enjoy it. Many actually do. Same with CQC, we love it.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I disagree with most of the above. yes there are some cheaters. (sadly there are in the main game as well). but a majority.... I really hope you are wrong.
as for I must not like CQC . that's odd , you know me better than I do. personally I really like CQC I just don't like waiting around for ages to get a match , and generally prefer playing with friends.
but sure advancing the elite rank is part of it

and again for god's sake stop miss representing. no one said it should just die
.it's dishonest (and part of the reason why I don't like gaming with many competitive gamers. along with the "git gud" mentality

yes I said "or just let it die" but you are taking totally out of context.

 

[Heliaxx]

So basically you want a Private Group CQC where nobody can actually see what you do there. It opens window to cheating - rank, squadron leaderboards by i.e. farming your own alts - that's not PvP anymore, there is just one player in such a match. And we've seen many people try to do it. Some had 7 alt accounts trying to block other players from joining and exposing them. There was even one player that farmed his alts all the way to CQC Elite until he eventually got caught doing it (got caught not by me, some other player found him accidentally when one of the alts accidentally dropped out and the guy join the match and gathered the evidence). You can search for it. That guy had ridiculous stats K/D 254.0 etc. But he got greedy for more and got caught.

Sure there would be a small group of legit players who would play with friends. But the majority would exploit it. I've played CQC for 6 years and throughout years I've learn a lot about people characters in this game. And vast majority unfortunatelly would cheat they way through ranks without blinking if they could get away with it.

There is a great place for people playing CQC only for fun - it's Legacy CQC. But personally I don't believe in existence of people playing CQC only for fun, after all they refuse to play Legacy CQC. Why? Because no rank progression, no trophies etc. I play only Live version of CQC because I like the competitive aspects of the game, fighting all kinds of opponents, squadron leaderboards etc.

Considering that many people come to CQC only for rank and they hate PvP of any kind, giving them option to be locked with own alt without anyone knowing they do it, they will just do it. And instead of more players there will be less, because those who really want to learn, get better and play with real opponents are few. After all real opponents hinder rank progression, afk alts don't.. it's just a ride from one non-moving ship to another to blow them up for XP.

I think if you don't like generic PvP then CQC really isn't for you. Why bother?

I don't like Exploration and Exobiology, but I don't go to Exploration and Exobiology threads / topics to say I hate it and it should just die or be removed from the game. It's not my cup of tea then I don't play it. But why? Other people can't just enjoy it. Many actually do. Same with CQC, we love it.

You think people didn't try legacy CQC? I would play it no problem if I could, tried several times. But 1) At this point its just kind of a chore for most ppl to switch there and its more work, ppl have diffrent binds, settings and everything, some dont even have it installed... plus at least I am having frequent crashes to desktop there mid-games. Your reasons why you think people dont play legacy CQC are, sadly, just off.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

i don't understand the suggestion anyway. last I looked legacy CQC does not have bots either , it's even more of a wasteland so how does that remove stupid wait times

 

[IstvaanDCIV]

So basically you want a Private Group CQC where nobody can actually see what you do there. It opens window to cheating - rank, squadron leaderboards by i.e. farming your own alts - that's not PvP anymore, there is just one player in such a match. And we've seen many people try to do it. Some had 7 alt accounts trying to block other players from joining and exposing them. There was even one player that farmed his alts all the way to CQC Elite until he eventually got caught doing it (got caught not by me, some other player found him accidentally when one of the alts accidentally dropped out and the guy join the match and gathered the evidence). You can search for it. That guy had ridiculous stats K/D 254.0 etc. But he got greedy for more and got caught.

Sure there would be a small group of legit players who would play with friends. But the majority would exploit it. I've played CQC for 6 years and throughout years I've learn a lot about people characters in this game. And vast majority unfortunatelly would cheat they way through ranks without blinking if they could get away with it.

An obvious solution presents itself. Make it so that Private CQC matches don't count towards rank & squadron leaderboard progression.

 

[MUSKETEER]

You think people didn't try legacy CQC? I would play it no problem if I could, tried several times. But 1) At this point its just kind of a chore for most ppl to switch there and its more work, ppl have diffrent binds, settings and everything, some dont even have it installed... plus at least I am having frequent crashes to desktop there mid-games. Your reasons why you think people dont play legacy CQC are, sadly, just off.

It doesn't take long to setup key bindings for CQC. There aren't many. And once you do it you don't have to do it again. So it sounds a bit like an excuse really.

 

[MUSKETEER]

i don't understand the suggestion anyway. last I looked legacy CQC does not have bots either , it's even more of a wasteland so how does that remove stupid wait times

A moment ago you said you wanted to play with friends.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

A moment ago you said you wanted to play with friends.

I did. fleshed out with bots otherwise it's a bit dull with just 2 or 3 people in a lobby

I will believe it when I see it anyway given it took months ( a year?) to fix graphics glitches and from what I can tell the match making is still janky too so chances of FD looking at CQC to actually add new content or features?

 

[SergMx]

There has long been such a suggestion about CQC and I really liked it and I don't think it would take a lot of effort to implement.

Essentially it was to add to the Arena - Battles. Two people (or wings) agree on a battle. They don't have to fly to whatever SanTu is. They take their current ships (builds) and fight virtually (No losses in loans or ships). There is a table of records, by people by ship classes, you can join guests in the form of cameras.
And so on and so forth.
I think here you could check your builds, hone your skills that will come in handy in the main game and just train ...

UPD. Again, for example, in the game you're fed up with some Ganker, and instead of adding him to the blacklist, you offer him a fight in the Arena. You even let him choose his weapons (ships) and after you beat him 10 times you will be happier than him

 

[Heliaxx]

It doesn't take long to setup key bindings for CQC. There aren't many. And once you do it you don't have to do it again. So it sounds a bit like an excuse really.

again ignoring the biggest issue I mentioned which is just typical at this point but whatever. I know you dont have a good answer.

 

[Tzeff [NL]]

Rebuy credits are utterly irrelevant. By the time you've unlocked all engineers and have built a maxed out PvP FDL (which is pretty much the minimum requirement to start participating in wingfights) you'll have at least 500M or even 1B credits, which is more than enough to cover rebuys for a long time.

It's way easier for new players to earn the necessary funds than it is to develop the necessary flying skills. If you cannot afford ~100 rebuys, then you're most probably not yet good enough anyway to be competitive in wingfights.

It's still very costly losing a multi-million ship 3x in one day just to "hone your skills" against other players!

 

[Tzeff [NL]]

Rebuy credits are utterly irrelevant. By the time you've unlocked all engineers and have built a maxed out PvP FDL (which is pretty much the minimum requirement to start participating in wingfights) you'll have at least 500M or even 1B credits, which is more than enough to cover rebuys for a long time.

It's way easier for new players to earn the necessary funds than it is to develop the necessary flying skills. If you cannot afford ~100 rebuys, then you're most probably not yet good enough anyway to be competitive in wingfights.

So you and your bots are up against the opponent and their bots but the bots only fight each other while you and opponent fight.

Apart from adding clutter I don’t see the point.

If the bots can fight the players then it isn’t PvP.

Why are you suggesting that the "bots only fight each other"?

I clearly wrote that "players earn less XP by killing bots but earn Full XP by killing other players"!

 

[Tzeff [NL]]

CQC is not my thing and I doubt bots would make me go back.

But I wonder if some kind of offline practice mode with bots wouldn't be a good idea. I mean, to get good you need to practice, but at the beginning it might be hard when only people you'll encounter, if anyone at all, are seasoned players that will squash you in seconds and then brag about it and make fun of you.

In CQC usually "seasoned players" have multiple "less seasoned players" on their team and the "weaker team" has multiple players that are higher ranked than the Seasoned Player's teammates. To give you a clearer picture here's an example how CQC is perfectly balanced out
(I've seen this multiple times in past CQC matches!)

Players have a number that represents their rank - 4 vs 4 match
Team 1
Seasoned Player rank 30
Player 2 rank 1
Player 3 rank 3
Player 4 rank 5
(Together 39 ranking points)

Team 2
Player 1 rank 15
Player 2 rank 10
Player 3 rank 8
Player 4 rank 6
(Together 39, but many times their ranks vary from slightly higher to slightly lower so between a total of 37-42 when compared with Team 1)

And if you've never played CQC before, you should know that the higher your rank, the better shields and weapons and engines you can afford. So the highest ranked player will obviously have the best ship but he can still get killed if he's being targeted by the other players and his teammates don't work as a team!

 

[Tzeff [NL]]

I see your point but I see CQC as an arcade shooter rather than a PvP arena.

I think it could work just like the multiplayer in say gears of war , with 1 mode for the PvP purists but then another for drop in drop out where it's full of bots which players replace as and where possible.

I think the suggestion of materials as an extra reward is also a good one. as for vastly reducing the payout for bots....... given there is already various meta guides for exploiting how to get materials quicker than you would buy natural game play I don't think such a thing is necessary.
it is unlikely even if FD did include material rewards etc that they would match the best meta collecting guides so I see no reason to have a 2 tier earning system.

sadly I don't expect it would happen. CQC is so close.to an excellent arcade shooter but FD no longer seem interested in it. it was broken for the longest of times after Oddy was launched and am not convinced it's fully fixed now.

at least I have starwars squadrons....... given EVE Valkyrie has been killed now and cqc takes ages to get a game or at least organisation to make a group, what used to be 3 brilliant vr shooters to dip into ad-hoc is now down to only one

I have tried to get a game now and then however either I don't find one, or I do and me and a few friends get in but there are a handful of incredibly skilled players.who just kick ass. not such an issue for me as I don't mind so much and i.am ok enough to compete at least a little, but very disheartening for new players.

yes CQC has matchmaking but when no one plays then the matchmaking cannot work so a brand new player will come up against aces.

I did see an Ace (from Germany) allow me to kill him "for free" at least 3 times After he blew me up about 5 times in a 1 vs 1 CQC.

That's why I started this thread. 1 vs 1, especially against an Ace is NO fun!

 

[Heliaxx]

In CQC usually "seasoned players" have multiple "less seasoned players" on their team and the "weaker team" has multiple players that are higher ranked than the Seasoned Player's teammates. To give you a clearer picture here's an example how CQC is perfectly balanced out
(I've seen this multiple times in past CQC matches!)

Players have a number that represents their rank - 4 vs 4 match
Team 1
Seasoned Player rank 30
Player 2 rank 1
Player 3 rank 3
Player 4 rank 5
(Together 39 ranking points)

Team 2
Player 1 rank 15
Player 2 rank 10
Player 3 rank 8
Player 4 rank 6
(Together 39, but many times their ranks vary from slightly higher to slightly lower so between a total of 37-42 when compared with Team 1)

And if you've never played CQC before, you should know that the higher your rank, the better shields and weapons and engines you can afford. So the highest ranked player will obviously have the best ship but he can still get killed if he's being targeted by the other players and his teammates don't work as a team!

Tbh this is kind of a very optimistic look on it I would say. Yes there is some kind of matchmaking, but more often then not it doesnt really work properly, even splitting games into many lobbies when there are less than 8 people in total playing at the moment. The ranks also don't really mean as much as it would seem, and it actually only takes into account the number rank, not the prestige. So you could be like prestige 5 or whatever (reached rank 50 5 times already and resetted it each time), but at the moment like rank 10, its just gonna take that low rank into consideration. There's also player who loves to try and use smurf account that he keeps resetting, so sadly it doesnt always work as intended.
Point about weapons to be honest I dont think holds true, the best overall CQC loadout is unlocked at like rank 11 which is like 2-3 sessions maybe for average skilled person if he gets games. And the condor you have at level 1 is already pretty much that loadout, theres only like 3 modules you gonna slightly change for the meta loadout. What I like about CQC is that the higher rank you get, you actually unlock more, maybe interesting but mostly just situational/silly builds, than straight up better.

 

[MUSKETEER]

I did see an Ace (from Germany) .....

You intrigued me with that "Ace" from Germany. It makes me wonder who. I'd like to fight him. I like the challenges against the aces

I got quite good at CQC for the following reasons:

• playing consistently
• actively looking for players to play with on discords and forums, making friends who also were interested to play cqc
• often fighting against more experienced players (I started January 2018, cqc was already 2 years old), watching then what they do while they were farming me pretty much
• sponging any advice CQC Elite ranked players were giving me when I was a noob i.e.

• working on perfecting what I already knew
• later challenging for first place every player that dominated cqc matches

This is just what PvP is. Winning matches is not given.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

CQC definitely needs AI bots to fill up matches. Right now the game will throw absolute pros in with beginners to get a match going at all. That is not fun for anyone. The pro doesn't get a challenge, the beginner just blows up after seconds. So a hybrid model matching only roughly equal players and filling up the rest with bots is preferable. I'd hope it would be more fun to play that way, drawing in more players, so more matches can get made again without the need to fill the empty slots with bots or players at a vastly different skill level.