Supercruise Assist and Advanced Docking Computer - my pov

[simonlange]

Well the expectations after weeks of discussions and announcements were high and at least in my case were disappointed.
Why? First of all lets talk about the concept of a computer. Its a machine who gets information, does work on it and gives information back - input, processing, output. Some computers may have an interface to physical machines. Those computers may not only give information back but may control other physical systems, like engines, steering, etc. The limitations of such a computer are ONLY in its software and its interface.

Well, what we got here: We got a Computer which has an interface to the engines of the ship, its steering and its navigations controls. Also it does receive information from the navigation system including its location, speed and heading. So we got EVERYTHING in this Computer Module to operate as a full scale autopilot, which can launch and land automaticly.

But what would it take to give this Module the skill to steer the ship to a destination of the skippers choice? Well, just a lil Software Update. Nothing more.
Then the Computer would launch from the station/base, head to the next navigation point, goes into supercruise, heads for the destination and would do every standard manouver actually the skipper still has to do manually, although its everytime the exact same annoying procedure.

Well, but what did we get? A Computer who can only land and launch and which capabilities are not even used. And we did get a supercruise assist, which does almost nothing i couldnt achieve without it except the auto-brake after jumping into a system which is pretty useless to 99% of all pilots. The "supercruise assist" is a complete waste of slot, power and money. The whole "capabilities" of the supercruise assist should be another function in the advanced computer module we purchased earlier. Also this "assist" may learn how to navigate after entering a system, to jump to the next navigation point (jump to the next system cruise to it) instead of just auto stopping.

Sure, everything a autopilot could do is something a real pilot could do himself. Any some would argue that its the actual fun to do it yourself. You know what?! Keep it that way. If you dont like it, just dont buy an autopilot, but on the other hand dont tell us we shouldnt get one. Nobody forces you to buy and use one. And you - please - dont force us to do everything manually. There are good reasons to have a full scale autopilot and there are good reasons not to use one. The decision should lay in the hands of the pilot himself, NOT in yours or mine. But there should be the possibility to make a choice!

For me for example its f++ing annoing to spend 1-2 hours of my life span to do nothing but jump to the next system by hand, heading to the next system, jump again, heading to the next system, jump again, and so on. Yeah, there are ppl enjoying the fun of feeping the wip on the naked back, but i dont like it either. In those situations, if i got lots of systems jump to do to get to my destination, i wish i had an autopilot.

Autopilots are for pilots who hate annoying repeating simple boring tasks.

Thats why i think the both modules are not good enough.
make the supercruise assist disappear and put it into the advanced computer.
Make it a full scale autopilot and make it possible to assign a key to its function just to switch it on and off. No fiddling menu airobics.

Such a module would be worth giving it a slot and its worth would make it of course more expensive. let it cost 2-3million and consume 1mW of power or less. But pilots like me would use their life time in a more effectiv and productive way while traveliing and not only the "autopilot" made of flesh and bones, if a computer subroutinge could do the very same job and we could read something on galnet, or in the database or drinking some coffee for gods sake.

But stop giving us for EVERY single computer subroutine a "new module" which wasting slots, money and power.

my point of view.

 

[Nihila Vex]

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[Helvellyn]

The problem is that you could plausibly automate everything the game does, including combat - the humans in Wall-E seem like an plausible prediction of the future to me, with everthing automated. How do you make a futuristic space game without "this should be automated"?

I'd like more skill involved, but it's hard to see how long flights could have that. More to do in our ships would be nice, although what that would be and whether they'd sustain interest (and not just be arbitrary mini-games) is beyond me.

Completely with you on the flight path indicator. Give me that and turn off those silly stars whizzing by!

 

[simonlange]

The problem is that you could plausibly automate everything the game does, including combat - the humans in Wall-E seem like an plausible prediction of the future to me, with everthing automated. How do you make a futuristic space game without "this should be automated"?

When talking about autopilot, every human being with a functioning mind knows what it is. An automatic toilet or combat softrware it is not.
So zero points for the attempt of derailing.

I'd like more skill involved, but it's hard to see how long flights could have that. More to do in our ships would be nice, although what that would be and whether they'd sustain interest (and not just be arbitrary mini-games) is beyond me.

As said, zero points for derailing. You want to make a discussion about cheating and combat aim bottery?! Feel free, make your own thread. Here we are talking about autopilots.

Completely with you on the flight path indicator. Give me that and turn off those silly stars whizzing by!

Well my point was surely NOT the visual effects. But i may suggest you can switch your monitor off whly in autopilot...

 

[simonlange]

Thing is, though, that long-distance navigation, assuming no interdictions, is not difficult. It's just very very dull, tedious, time-consuming. And there's no reason in my mind why the game wouldn't be improved by releasing us from the need to nursemaid the game through all this. We're not doing anything - I don't know about anyone else but my mind wanders something wild when I'm navigating a distance, and I'm not really in the game at that point in any case. Why not let me switch on the autopilot and let me actually go do something else?

Did you watch ALIEN?! Remember what happened when something out of expections happened. What did the autopilot did?! RIGHT! He did alarm the crew.

Well if you got an interdiction while on autopilot, let autopilot trigger a visual and insisting audio alarm you cant miss. If you miss it, you may no "aboard" and you deserve destruction. Because even with autopilot the skipper NEVER leaves the ship. He is maybe in the engines department but he would never leave the ship and so he cant miss the alarm. If he misses the alarm he may be no on the ship anymore.

 

[Helvellyn]

When talking about autopilot, every human being with a functioning mind knows what it is. An automatic toilet or combat softrware it is not.
So zero points for the attempt of derailing.


As said, zero points for derailing. You want to make a discussion about cheating and combat aim bottery?! Feel free, make your own thread. Here we are talking about autopilots.


Well my point was surely NOT the visual effects. But i may suggest you can switch your monitor off whly in autopilot...

Attempts at derailing? Discussions about autopilots are inevitably discussions about automation in general, and the pros and cons of it from both a realism and a gameplay perspective.

Cheating and aimbotting? What are you on about?

As for "your" point, I was replying to the post above mine.

Zero points for a rational post I'm afraid.

 

[Nihila Vex]

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[Nihila Vex]

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[Sunleader]

If we Talk about Realism. Each Ship could have Full Autopilot without needing a Module at all.
Because the Ship Computer which is capable of Hosting this kind of Galaxy Map as well as the Sensors and Interface of the Ship required for an Autopilot are all already Existent.

The Reason why we dont get an Autopilot is because FDev wants you to Spend Time Grinding in their Game.
This is an Old Shoe you can observe it on everything FDev does. From Engineers to Mining to Community Goals.
They want you to Grind that Content they Create. ALL OF IT. And dont want you to Skip anything you find Boring or Avoid anything you dont like.
So they try to Force you to play and grind as much of it on a broad spectrum as possible.
Thats also the Reason why they moved the Discovery Scanner and the Standard Scanners from being a Module to being Installed in each Ship by Default.
They linked it to other Content and are trying to use it so you also Play Content that you are not really Interested in.

Same is True for why the Docking Computer and the Assist is a Module and Takes up Space.
FDev considers these Modules a Newbe Help. Nothing more. They Added it not as a Quality of Life Improvement. But as a Help for Newbes to not scare them out of the Game.
But they actually want you to Fly entirely without any of this.
After all they made the Effort to Create all this Graphics and Actions for Landing a Ship. They want you to actually Spend Time on that.
So they make it use up Modules to give you an Incentive to Fly without them and thus get more Space for other Stuff.


Its one of the Biggest Flaws I got with this Game and FDev at all times.
Whenever they do something. They just cannot Accept that some Players dont want to Play this Part of the Game or are not Interested in that Area of the Game.
They always either Add Big Incentives to that Stuff so that People not using it are Heavily Disadvantaged. (Like with Engineering or Mining) Or in other cases they add a Penalty for Avoiding it. (Like the Docking Computer or the Conversion of Engineering Materials)

They really Need to Learn that Some People will be more Interested in Certain Aspects of the Game and simply dont want to use certain other Aspects of it.
For example. I dont like to Steal Data from Outposts. But FDev cant Accept that. So the Alternatives they Offer are either a Heavy Grind of Missions to Avoid it. Or Converting other Materials at a 5 to 1 Ratio.
And from the Getgo I consider this Rubbish. Because lets Face it.
Usually you would just be able to Buy this kind of Stuff from the Engineer. And you can bet there is a Reason why the Materials Required for the most wanted Engineer Upgrades.
Are exactly the Stuff which Forces you to Play Content that barely anyone wants to Play.


Its honestly said Strange that FDev constantly does this.
This is usually a Newbe Mistake that Young Developers make. Because they want to Force the Players to Play EVERYTHING they Created.
Its not usually something you should find in an Experienced Team like Frontier....

 

[Sir Wintermute]

Did you watch ALIEN?! Remember what happened when something out of expections happened. What did the autopilot did?! RIGHT! He did alarm the crew.

Do you mean being diverted to LV-426?

 

[Sunleader]

I'm fairly certain that a computer could avoid an interdiction better than a pilot could. In fact, unmanned drones, with future tech, could do basically everything better.
Isn't it lore that anything too close to AI is banned?

Actually you would not need AI for this.

For example.
On Interdiction. The Interface already Shows you where you need to Steer the Ship to Avoid Interdiction.
So all thats left would be a Simple Command to the Ship to always Steer towards that Point Automaticly.

Thats a Simple Automatization. Not an AI.
Because there is no Decisionmaking Involved.

AI is only needed when depending on Input there is several Options Available and you want a Computer to make the Decision on which one is Chosen.
For Simple Automatizations like the Ship Steering to the Middle of a Point there is always just one Option Available. So its exactly the same as if you make a Machine that does something at the Press of a Button. Just that the Button here is the Interdiction Interface Showing you a Direction.

 

[Helvellyn]

FWIW I'm all for having an autopilot if there's also something else to do whilst it's running.What I certainly would not like is a "go off and do something else on your computer until the alarm lets you know it's pew-pew time." May as well just let any ship in CQC and ditch the rest of the game at that point.

 

[Sunleader]

Did you watch ALIEN?! Remember what happened when something out of expections happened. What did the autopilot did?! RIGHT! He did alarm the crew.

Well if you got an interdiction while on autopilot, let autopilot trigger a visual and insisting audio alarm you cant miss. If you miss it, you may no "aboard" and you deserve destruction. Because even with autopilot the skipper NEVER leaves the ship. He is maybe in the engines department but he would never leave the ship and so he cant miss the alarm. If he misses the alarm he may be no on the ship anymore.

I dont get your Point on this to be Honest.
Nobody Asked for an AI Ship which Basicly Plays alone.

Autopilot is NOT an AI Guys.

An Autopilot can only do a Preprogrammed Action.
You can make an Autopilot Fight to a Certain Extend by simply having it React with Certain Actions to Certain Situations.

But any Autopilot even nowdays will Alert the Crew when an Unexpected Situation Arises.
Because again. An Autopilot is not an AI. Its just a Machine where the Button that Tells the Machine to do a Certain Action. Is Instead Hooked to a Certain Event in the Sensors.
If something comes up that Requires to make a Decision. The Autopilot will call for the Crew because it cannot make Decisions or Handle anything that it has no Preprogrammed Response for.

Now. An Interdiction is likely not really an Unexpected Action.
Because the Computer is actually telling you where the Steer to Avoid Interdiction.
So its just a Sensory Input which could easily be Linked to the Ships Controls to Steer in that Direction.
But it would likely still call the Crew because its a Dangerous Situation and might Result in Decisions and Action of the Pilot being Required.
Anyone Programming an Autopilot would Programm it to Alert the Crew in case of Attacks.

Stuff an Autopilot can do.
Would for example be. To Follow a Jump Route.
Supercruise to a Station or Object and Land there.

Stuff an Autopilot can not do.
Decide on a Target for a Jump Route.
Decide on which Station you want to Land at.

 

[dreampage]

I would also like to see an auto-pilot in the game, doing the jumps without intervention from the player. It would still mean compromises: explorers would still need to jump manually, in order to scan the systems they're in. So it's not like going to the other end of the galaxy with one button press (or if somebody does that, he'd miss out on a lot of potential discoveries). However, players who trade or don't want to scan, just travel, would get an excellent assist. It would still pose risk: how I'd make an auto-pilot is that it wouldn't defend against interdictions, so missions, pirates, other players etc would still need attention and manual control just in case.

However, I think it's perfectly valid that an auto-pilot would help in a lot of cases and as an added option it would make life easier for a lot of Cmdrs. If flight assist, docking (and undocking) computers, supercruise assists are fine then a full-on auto-pilot should be fine, too. Maybe make it a size 2 module so it means compromise, make it more expensive and power-consuming, but the option for those who want it could exist.

 

[ZeroAi]

Well the expectations after weeks of discussions and announcements were high and at least in my case were disappointed.
Why? First of all lets talk about the concept of a computer. Its a machine who gets information, does work on it and gives information back - input, processing, output. Some computers may have an interface to physical machines. Those computers may not only give information back but may control other physical systems, like engines, steering, etc. The limitations of such a computer are ONLY in its software and its interface.

Well, what we got here: We got a Computer which has an interface to the engines of the ship, its steering and its navigations controls. Also it does receive information from the navigation system including its location, speed and heading. So we got EVERYTHING in this Computer Module to operate as a full scale autopilot, which can launch and land automaticly.

But what would it take to give this Module the skill to steer the ship to a destination of the skippers choice? Well, just a lil Software Update. Nothing more.
Then the Computer would launch from the station/base, head to the next navigation point, goes into supercruise, heads for the destination and would do every standard manouver actually the skipper still has to do manually, although its everytime the exact same annoying procedure.

Well, but what did we get? A Computer who can only land and launch and which capabilities are not even used. And we did get a supercruise assist, which does almost nothing i couldnt achieve without it except the auto-brake after jumping into a system which is pretty useless to 99% of all pilots. The "supercruise assist" is a complete waste of slot, power and money. The whole "capabilities" of the supercruise assist should be another function in the advanced computer module we purchased earlier. Also this "assist" may learn how to navigate after entering a system, to jump to the next navigation point (jump to the next system cruise to it) instead of just auto stopping.

Sure, everything a autopilot could do is something a real pilot could do himself. Any some would argue that its the actual fun to do it yourself. You know what?! Keep it that way. If you dont like it, just dont buy an autopilot, but on the other hand dont tell us we shouldnt get one. Nobody forces you to buy and use one. And you - please - dont force us to do everything manually. There are good reasons to have a full scale autopilot and there are good reasons not to use one. The decision should lay in the hands of the pilot himself, NOT in yours or mine. But there should be the possibility to make a choice!

For me for example its f++ing annoing to spend 1-2 hours of my life span to do nothing but jump to the next system by hand, heading to the next system, jump again, heading to the next system, jump again, and so on. Yeah, there are ppl enjoying the fun of feeping the wip on the naked back, but i dont like it either. In those situations, if i got lots of systems jump to do to get to my destination, i wish i had an autopilot.

Autopilots are for pilots who hate annoying repeating simple boring tasks.

Thats why i think the both modules are not good enough.
make the supercruise assist disappear and put it into the advanced computer.
Make it a full scale autopilot and make it possible to assign a key to its function just to switch it on and off. No fiddling menu airobics.

Such a module would be worth giving it a slot and its worth would make it of course more expensive. let it cost 2-3million and consume 1mW of power or less. But pilots like me would use their life time in a more effectiv and productive way while traveliing and not only the "autopilot" made of flesh and bones, if a computer subroutinge could do the very same job and we could read something on galnet, or in the database or drinking some coffee for gods sake.

But stop giving us for EVERY single computer subroutine a "new module" which wasting slots, money and power.

my point of view.

I wish Supercruise Assist was built into the Advanced Docking Computer, and that it was activated like the post hyperspace jump de-throttle - turn it on and it worked.

That said, I guess they are trying to avoid providing an actual auto pilot, which I can understand why they have made that decision, but also wish they would give us one anyways... maybe everyone who makes Elite the first time gets to unlock it.

But, we'll likely get self driving cars and taxis here in the real world long before that feature comes to Elite Dangerous.

 

[babelfisch]

When talking about autopilot, every human being with a functioning mind knows what it is. An automatic toilet or combat softrware it is not.
So zero points for the attempt of derailing.


As said, zero points for derailing. You want to make a discussion about cheating and combat aim bottery?! Feel free, make your own thread. Here we are talking about autopilots.


Well my point was surely NOT the visual effects. But i may suggest you can switch your monitor off whly in autopilot...

Wow, you are derailing your own thread. Do you want feedback and discussion or are only carbon copies of your post allowed?

Anyway, it's a difficult topic with lots of valid arguments on all sides. Personally I think both new modules should be part of the ship's core functionality without the need for additional modules. They should also be more useful, without the 75% throttle limitation. I am fine with flying around objects though.

Autojumping is a different matter, not because I am completely against the proposal (I can definetely see the benefits), but because I am not sure if I like what it implies for the game. If travelling is so boring that you would like to leave your computer for a few hours and come back when your ship reached the destination, autojumping would actually encourage you to actively stop playing the game.
So maybe it would be better to make travelling more interesting rather than automated? I think the most elegant solution would be to add both, automated travel and more interesting travel. If we had space legs and autojumping you could walk around your ship, play a round of chess with your crew mate or passenger, maybe fine tune your lasers, plan the next route, read galnet, etc.

 

[Gut Rumble]

Flying is all we do in this game , 98% is Flying , but you want Autopilot so you don't even have to do that lol . they really do need to put a Give Me Everything option in the start menu lol

 

[Sunleader]

Flying is all we do in this game , 98% is Flying , but you want Autopilot so you don't even have to do that lol . they really do need to put a Give Me Everything option in the start menu lol

Actually not Really True.
What we dont want.
Is the Repetetive Flying through Places we have already Flown through 10000 times.
Because you See. Its so Incredible Fun to Stare at my Screen for 2 Hours Flying the Same Jumproute for the 20th Time this Week to reach that Equipment Dock where I got my Modules Stored.

 

[ElectricFactory]

I must admit much of this rings true. We've all come to the game for our own reasons, for our own specific reasons. Exploration, mining, pvp, whatever. I prefer to engage in those activities which I enjoy. It's annoying to be funneled toward game features( illegal/ penalty laden activites for instance) in order to advance.

If we Talk about Realism. Each Ship could have Full Autopilot without needing a Module at all.
Because the Ship Computer which is capable of Hosting this kind of Galaxy Map as well as the Sensors and Interface of the Ship required for an Autopilot are all already Existent.

The Reason why we dont get an Autopilot is because FDev wants you to Spend Time Grinding in their Game.
This is an Old Shoe you can observe it on everything FDev does. From Engineers to Mining to Community Goals.
They want you to Grind that Content they Create. ALL OF IT. And dont want you to Skip anything you find Boring or Avoid anything you dont like.
So they try to Force you to play and grind as much of it on a broad spectrum as possible.
Thats also the Reason why they moved the Discovery Scanner and the Standard Scanners from being a Module to being Installed in each Ship by Default.
They linked it to other Content and are trying to use it so you also Play Content that you are not really Interested in.

Same is True for why the Docking Computer and the Assist is a Module and Takes up Space.
FDev considers these Modules a Newbe Help. Nothing more. They Added it not as a Quality of Life Improvement. But as a Help for Newbes to not scare them out of the Game.
But they actually want you to Fly entirely without any of this.
After all they made the Effort to Create all this Graphics and Actions for Landing a Ship. They want you to actually Spend Time on that.
So they make it use up Modules to give you an Incentive to Fly without them and thus get more Space for other Stuff.


Its one of the Biggest Flaws I got with this Game and FDev at all times.
Whenever they do something. They just cannot Accept that some Players dont want to Play this Part of the Game or are not Interested in that Area of the Game.
They always either Add Big Incentives to that Stuff so that People not using it are Heavily Disadvantaged. (Like with Engineering or Mining) Or in other cases they add a Penalty for Avoiding it. (Like the Docking Computer or the Conversion of Engineering Materials)

They really Need to Learn that Some People will be more Interested in Certain Aspects of the Game and simply dont want to use certain other Aspects of it.
For example. I dont like to Steal Data from Outposts. But FDev cant Accept that. So the Alternatives they Offer are either a Heavy Grind of Missions to Avoid it. Or Converting other Materials at a 5 to 1 Ratio.
And from the Getgo I consider this Rubbish. Because lets Face it.
Usually you would just be able to Buy this kind of Stuff from the Engineer. And you can bet there is a Reason why the Materials Required for the most wanted Engineer Upgrades.
Are exactly the Stuff which Forces you to Play Content that barely anyone wants to Play.


Its honestly said Strange that FDev constantly does this.
This is usually a Newbe Mistake that Young Developers make. Because they want to Force the Players to Play EVERYTHING they Created.
Its not usually something you should find in an Experienced Team like Frontier....

 

[Nihila Vex]

.