Newcomer / Intro Supercruise overspeed

[Manshonyagger]

I don't have a useful mental model of this game mechanic.

I cruise to my destination, and on the approach I am a whisker overspeed.

"Slow down" flashes up, and I correct - but my engine revs all the way up to maximum for no discernible reason, despite my throttle being on zero.

What's going on here?

 

[quickr]

practice, practice, practice.... you'll get there. we all overshoot sometimes

 

[Mike Evans]

I don't have a useful mental model of this game mechanic.

I cruise to my destination, and on the approach I am a whisker overspeed.

"Slow down" flashes up, and I correct - but my engine revs all the way up to maximum for no discernible reason, despite my throttle being on zero.

What's going on here?

It's just the audio that revs up, you'll still be slowing down the whole time. The audio is based on your current speed within the range of allowed speed. Once you get close to a planet that allowed speed gets very low but your current speed can't slow down quick enough to remain in the range, thus the audio revs higher than normal.

 

[Cmdr Bernard]

When "slow down" flashes up, it's already too late and you will overshoot.

Approach target at full throttle until the target timer displays around 00:07 to 00:10 seconds. Then reduce throttle to about the middle of the blue area in your throttle display (tip: Set a key to 75% throttle, that's exactly the spot). The final approach is now said as "riding the 8", which means that your target timer should stay around 00:08 seconds. Start with riding the 8, then reduce until you can be riding the 6 for a perfect approach. Just practise.

I know this "riding" sounds a bit odd, but in some video I watched this was the perfect explanation term which somehow stuck to me.
This video may also be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgcvCQ14Lfs

 

[PanicButton]

I have this theory.....that "slow down" indicator is not the game telling you to ease up on the speed, but rather that you are being slowed down by a gravity field. This would also explain why the "engine revs up"

 

[CMDR MAIN SEQUENCE]

I have this theory.....that "slow down" indicator is not the game telling you to ease up on the speed, but rather that you are being slowed down by a gravity field. This would also explain why the "engine revs up"

Unfortunately it's both...hopefully they'll remove the gravity field "slow down" as it serves no purpose that I can see.

 

[ColdGlider]

It's just the audio that revs up, you'll still be slowing down the whole time. The audio is based on your current speed within the range of allowed speed. Once you get close to a planet that allowed speed gets very low but your current speed can't slow down quick enough to remain in the range, thus the audio revs higher than normal.

This explains things in game development terms, but not in terms of "in game" physics. I suspect that the OP was looking for an explanation less about audio coding bugs (sound engine checking relative speed vs absolute speed) and more about how the fictional reality is supposed to operate. That being said, I think the question can only be completely answered by considering both contexts. (In other words: thanks for the response, Mike!)

I am no physicist by any stretch of the mind, but I too suspect gravity is at play here. With throttle engaged and vectoring toward a gravitational body, you will eventually enter that body's "gravity well." At that point, I believe you should be pulled toward that body even if you are at zero throttle. Thus, to counteract the gravity's pull on your ship, you have to throttle back; otherwise you'll be throttling into something that is already pulling you toward it.

There are MANY more qualified people in these forums who should be able to explain this definitively, so hopefully one will. This is just my assumption.

Physicists? Care to explain?

 

[Manshonyagger]

Bernard:

Aaah.

Okay, that makes sense.

Thanks!

 

[kastia]

On the subject of the supercruise noise... is there any way to tone it down or even mute it all together? When you're spending hours at a time at SC exploring, the noise gets extremely irritating to me..

 

[PanicButton]

Unfortunately it's both...

Is that a fact?

 

[Mike Evans]

This explains things in game development terms, but not in terms of "in game" physics. I suspect that the OP was looking for an explanation less about audio coding bugs (sound engine checking relative speed vs absolute speed) and more about how the fictional reality is supposed to operate. That being said, I think the question can only be completely answered by considering both contexts. (In other words: thanks for the response, Mike!)

I am no physicist by any stretch of the mind, but I too suspect gravity is at play here. With throttle engaged and vectoring toward a gravitational body, you will eventually enter that body's "gravity well." At that point, I believe you should be pulled toward that body even if you are at zero throttle. Thus, to counteract the gravity's pull on your ship, you have to throttle back; otherwise you'll be throttling into something that is already pulling you toward it.

There are MANY more qualified people in these forums who should be able to explain this definitively, so hopefully one will. This is just my assumption.

Physicists? Care to explain?

The context is something like you're compressing space around your ship to move faster than light using your normal engine capability. However you can only compress space so much in the presence of a gravity well. The stronger the well the less you can compress thus the slower you move through space. Actual gravitational pull isn't being taken into account at all because the space compression is way more powerful than the affect of gravity and your ships computer automatically put you in a stable orbit around planets (i.e. your frame of reference) anyway. Thus the only factor that controls your speed is how much space is being compressed and what throttle you set your ship too.

 

[Loskene]

The context is something like you're compressing space around your ship to move faster than light using your normal engine capability. However you can only compress space so much in the presence of a gravity well. The stronger the well the less you can compress thus the slower you move through space. Actual gravitational pull isn't being taken into account at all because the space compression is way more powerful than the affect of gravity and your ships computer automatically put you in a stable orbit around planets (i.e. your frame of reference) anyway. Thus the only factor that controls your speed is how much space is being compressed and what throttle you set your ship too.

I had always thought that to be the case. Does this explain the "speed limit" ships have too? Your thrusters can only shift your ship's mass so much without destabilising its orbit or putting it on an escape (or impact) trajectory during combat manoeuvres. I figure there must be some safeguards in place to stop ships that lose power ending up on suborbital trajectories.

- - - Updated - - -

According to Einstein, faster than light travel is impossible, unless you have an infinite energy source. If that's the case, should not the energy in our ships never diminish?

Alcubierre-style warp drives (star trek and elite, as well as others) cheat relativity by not moving the ship relative to the bubble of normal space it's encased in. The warp engines distort spacetime itself to move the bubble of normal space with your ship in it at superluminal velocities.

 

[Pixeldemon]

It's just the audio that revs up, you'll still be slowing down the whole time. The audio is based on your current speed within the range of allowed speed. Once you get close to a planet that allowed speed gets very low but your current speed can't slow down quick enough to remain in the range, thus the audio revs higher than normal.

I figured this was the case, but it is fairly counter intuitive. The current sound design makes it seem like the ship is accelerating rather than slowing, even though the instruments show the deceleration.

 

[CrazedHatter]

It's just the audio that revs up, you'll still be slowing down the whole time. The audio is based on your current speed within the range of allowed speed. Once you get close to a planet that allowed speed gets very low but your current speed can't slow down quick enough to remain in the range, thus the audio revs higher than normal.

Not unlike downshifting in a car, as comparison.

 

[SMcA]

When "slow down" flashes up, it's already too late and you will overshoot.

Not necessarily true. If you zero your throttle your speed will still be going down. And if you look at the distance/speed panel. You might be lucky to see that your speed is below 1000 Km/s. When the distance is less than 1000 Km you can exit safely. There is a very short window to do this and requires quick reflexes. But it can be done.

 

[Leper Messiah]

I always presumed the increase in engine noise was some sort of reverse thrust going on? I take it that's wrong then?

 

[who?]

Thus the only factor that controls your speed is how much space is being compressed and what throttle you set your ship too.

For clarity (/pedantry), there is another factor that determines your speed - your selected target and its proximity.

Nearly got killed trying to escape burning up near a sun, and wondering why I couldn't go faster, only to remember I had a nearby signal source targetted, unlocked that target and was able to speed away.

 

[ColdGlider]

Great explanation, Mike! Thank you!

 

[cassog]

When "slow down" flashes up, it's already too late and you will overshoot.

Approach target at full throttle until the target timer displays around 00:07 to 00:10 seconds. Then reduce throttle to about the middle of the blue area in your throttle display (tip: Set a key to 75% throttle, that's exactly the spot). The final approach is now said as "riding the 8", which means that your target timer should stay around 00:08 seconds. Start with riding the 8, then reduce until you can be riding the 6 for a perfect approach. Just practise.

I know this "riding" sounds a bit odd, but in some video I watched this was the perfect explanation term which somehow stuck to me.
This video may also be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CgcvCQ14Lfs

I have had this happen to me on numerous occasions when following exactly the procedure you outline.
Going at max speed. When the TTA counter gets down to 8 or 7 I hit my 75% button which - as you say puts your speed smack in the middle of the blue zone. ( I have noticed the speedo needle actually turns blue rather than gold - any significance to this?)
Anyway, everything looking good until for whatever reason the speed bars begin to increas (dramatically!) and shoot out of the blue zone and way up into maximum. Throttling back has no effect whatsoever at this stage. And the speed does not return to the 75% setting until you have actually overshot.
Doesn't happen all the time, but often enough to be annoying.
is there any way to prevent this?

 

[Cmdr Bernard]

I can only offer a theory, not sure if this is correct. Your speed is always relative to how close you are to a nearby gravity field of a planet (as others have outlined above better than I can). So with your throttle at say 75%, your speed is actually not constant, but depends on how much gravity slows you down. You notice that as you get slower as more you approach the gravity field even though your throttle is not moved. But if you are flying away from a planet (because the station is behind it), your speed may increase again quickly, possibly resulting in overshooting the station. In those situation I usually throttle down a bit more manually and don't only rely on that "75% and be done" rule.
May be total , just trying to explain my in-game experience. I am no astrophysicist. But hey, it just shows how well Elite works, compare that with the flight model of Freelancer or other space games which appear primitive in comparison: