News Support update - Reiteration of player harassment rules

If you enjoy the game by trying to stop others from enjoying it and upsetting them, or if your actions have the specific intent of harassing or inflicting distress on another real-world human being, then you are breaking the rules


If people can have emotional distress over being blown up then i'm sure the PK'ers will have some emotional distress over their target running away / combat logging / legal logging. therefore they are breaking the rules.
 
If people can have emotional distress over being blown up then i'm sure the PK'ers will have some emotional distress over their target running away / combat logging / legal logging. therefore they are breaking the rules.
100% agree. Players annoy me all the time by combat logging but in the past I've used COMMON SENSE to not think that they were harassing me but NOW I've realized that this is considered harassment by FDEV and I'll start reporting people not only for them exploiting, but for them harassing me too. Thanks for the clarification.
 
My favorite part about this is that if we go into the group that they are undermining our group in in order to defend ourselves from their harrassment of our player group and private faction, we will then be banned for going into that group to try and stop the harassment but would be banned for harrassment. It's hilariously hypocritical.

I agree
 
TLDR, will we start to see FDEV actually kicking and banning players or is this just another scare tactic to try to keep everything in order?

TBH I would like to see commanders named and shamed for hacking and griefing if its proven in a locked sticky thread created by FDEV themselves.
Probably the latter. What they're calling 'harassment' is so vague and open to interpretation that it will be impossible to enforce fairly. Or at least the part about posting stuff to incite anger or interrupting streams; I'm all for taking action against people for circumventing blocks to infiltrate private groups.

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My favorite part about this is that if we go into the group that they are undermining our group in in order to defend ourselves from their harrassment of our player group and private faction, we will then be banned for going into that group to try and stop the harassment but would be banned for harrassment. It's hilariously hypocritical.


This is definitely a very serious problem with the game. If Frontier wants anything meaningful to ever come of player factions then this is a far more pressing issue than some people 'disrupting' streams.
 
This. If you're hunting other commanders, then one or the other of you is a pirate/murderer/terrorist, there is simply no way around this. If Frontier didn't want any PVP murderers it would simply be impossible to damage other players who weren't wanted. Again, I don't have a problem with the core message of this post, it's the fact that it's overly broad and certain people (you, Jypson) will misinterpret it to suit their own agenda. It just needs more clarification.

If you require further clarification, look at the OP from FDev, it doesn't get any clearer. If you feel you're in the right, you have nothing to worry about.
 
I also have to say the negativity that people put out is exaggerated greatly in comparison to the positive that gets highlighted. For instance, this forums is up in arms over what four people did in one night in Mobius. Those people have raised such a stink that frontier is changing their approach to Player interaction. Well, over on Reddit we have four stories just this last week of players interacting with SDC that had so much fun they took the time to post about it. Two of those players were stepping foot for the first time into open play. SDC is a group of content creators. When we do something we go all out given players the most fun experience they have had in game. Their words not mine. If you ever watch my stream when you see me pull up my friends look list take a look at it. Those are all people that I have blown up at some point or another. These people here complaining are people I've never even met before. This is a video game, in the end it's all about having fun. SDC is built around that.
Those stream snipes, did you bother to mention the ones that thanked us after we join their stream to snipe them? Not making this up they're there, on those videos that you want to ban. It boils down to again, this is a video game, some people know how to have fun, some people don't. If you are in the video game business you might want to pay more attention to the people that do know how to have fun and less attention to the people that spend 99% of their time on these forums complaining. Of all these complaints, how many have experienced what they are complaining about direct? The whole mobius incursion? 15, 15 people get blown up in a game and how much time has been spent whining about it?
Sort your priorities folks. That includes you Zac.

 
Thank you for proving my point about reception.
If you mean that stating my opinion, where I don't agree with your statement is proving your point I would caution you that simply making a statement that those reacting a certain way to what you post, does not prove any point around the subject, only proves that you know your point is not shared by some. Doesn't really say anything about your point being right or wrong...
I hunt them because I'm a murderer. Also, a LOT of you guys are assuming we stream sniped them. I'm not saying that some members don't do that, but the charity streamers were either friends with their killers or friends of the streamer were telling them the whereabouts in game (Jenner).
I personally haven't mentioned if or if not SDC stream snipe, only the act in general.
also "I hunt them because I'm a murder" is a bit of a weird statement when playing in a game where you effectively cannot die, and thus you as a murderer can't never be removed, where you as a "murderer" can keep killing to your hearts content left right and center, you will never really be able to lose, where the only ones that will lose is your victims.
But that is why frontier is creating a proper crime and punishment/consequence system,
If people can have emotional distress over being blown up then i'm sure the PK'ers will have some emotional distress over their target running away / combat logging / legal logging. therefore they are breaking the rules.
Main difference though, is one is an aggressive action and one is a defensive action, one is an action, the other a reaction.
A grief (overwhelmingly more powerful then B) kills B - B gets upset, B in the future combat logs to avoid griefing.
B combat logs before A can destroy them. - A gets upset and rightly reports B for breaking rules.

Combat logging is already against the rules, so reporting should be done, but A is still the one that starts the episode that might lead to it, A could instead chose to attack a target that they are not overwhelmingly more powerful then, on more equal ground the likelihood of someone combat logging is less, (though yes I know, the risk of it is still there)
 
I get what you're saying but here's what I'm saying. My reasoning makes no difference. My in game reasoning is that my pilot enjoys watching things blow up and I like making him do that. Considering the game was advertised to me in that manner, I don't see how I could possibly be doing anything wrong?

Sure but in the example all the players just by coincidence happened to be doing the same charity stream.

It can be claimed that wasn't the motivation, but let's be honest most folk aren't that naive. I don't think Frontier will be anyway.
 
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If you require further clarification, look at the OP from FDev, it doesn't get any clearer. If you feel you're in the right, you have nothing to worry about.

I'm with AA who are mortal enemies with SDC and can not remember the last time I attacked a player who was not wanted so this has nothing to do with with defending my own actions.

"look at the OP from FDev, it doesn't get any clearer."

I could hardly make it less clear if I tried. Frontier have set this up to be so vague that they can pretty much just decide to take action against whoever if they prove to unpopular with the community or some subset of the community.
 
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Hi everyone,

In light of recent issues relating to the way a small collective of players have been approaching and targeting specific private groups and other community events such as charity livestreams, we wanted to reinforce an important part of the existing rules regarding in-game harassment that every player agrees to when creating their account.

We wanted to reiterate some examples regarding the rules of Player harassment. If a player has been blocked from a private group, or a group/individual has taken every step possible to remove a player from their gameplay, then attempting to circumvent this in any fashion is a serious offense and action will be taken accordingly. Attempting to re-establish contact with an individual who has blocked a player through secondary accounts or other methods of attempting to evade the block are against the rules. Action can and will be taken against both the accounts in question and the main accounts of players that we deem to be harassing players through this method.

In addition taking action such as seeking out and targeting specific players purely for the purpose of being disruptive, to cause offence, or to upset players within the community can also be considered harassment. A perfect example of this is deliberately attempting to disrupt public livestreams such as the charity ones mentioned before. This includes, but is not limited to, the capturing of footage and releasing it publically in an attempt to create upset or gain notoriety through the actions listed above.

We have previously stated, and it remains true, that Frontier are not able to manage group specific rules. Players considered to be breaking these group rule sets as established by group moderators should be removed from those groups by said moderators. In addition, running a livestream in Open does invite the potential for players to approach and impact your gameplay and running a livestream in which you are declaring war on another group and they come and take action against you is reasonable and should be expected.

Ultimately it’s about context. The support team can and will review these kinds of offences and will be taking action against accounts that set their entire purpose on harassing players and groups in this way. They are currently investigating a number of incidents and will be dealing directly with any parties involved.

The Frontier Support team take the protection and safety of the community very seriously, they strive to ensure that the game remains fair and friendly. If you feel the need to report an incident, please do get in contact with support via our support site at https://support.frontier.co.uk - please include as much detail of the event as possible.

You can see a copy of the rules that everyone signs up to by creating an account, including harassment, here:
https://www.frontierstore.net/ed-eula/

Thanks for reading.

Way to contradict yourself. You tell people they can be banned for deliberately disrupting a live stream (as if you have any competent means of determining motives) and then turn around to say live streaming in Open invites disruption. You're right about the ladder and that alone. What kind of community manager so blatantly picks sides on such a polarizing issue? You basically imply that you would ban things that are legal if you could because you personally don't approve of them.

If you catch people trying to reenter private groups they've been banned from, are you seriously going to take action against this while you guys impotently allow anyone who cheats by means of hacking and combat logging to get away with it? Because that's what happens. Meanwhile you're too busy trying to passively get the point accross that you sympathize with a crowd of players that views literally every non consensual interaction with other players as "griefing" (it is what it is and that's what they do. That's why they want PvP removed in any way possible).

So what's it gonna be Zac? Are you guys going to get a grip and start fixing what's wrong with your game and find an impartial stance to stick with about gameplay the way any successful Dev does or are you going to keep trying to force the singleplayer/coop peg through the MMO hole?

SPOILER ALERT: It won't fit.
 
If you require further clarification, look at the OP from FDev, it doesn't get any clearer. If you feel you're in the right, you have nothing to worry about.
This reply was completely pointless. Contribute to the discussion by explaining your point or don't post at all.

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I also have to say the negativity that people put out is exaggerated greatly in comparison to the positive that gets highlighted. For instance, this forums is up in arms over what four people did in one night in Mobius. Those people have raised such a stink that frontier is changing their approach to Player interaction. Well, over on Reddit we have four stories just this last week of players interacting with SDC that had so much fun they took the time to post about it. Two of those players were stepping foot for the first time into open play. SDC is a group of content creators. When we do something we go all out given players the most fun experience they have had in game. Their words not mine. If you ever watch my stream when you see me pull up my friends look list take a look at it. Those are all people that I have blown up at some point or another. These people here complaining are people I've never even met before. This is a video game, in the end it's all about having fun. SDC is built around that.
Those stream snipes, did you bother to mention the ones that thanked us after we join their stream to snipe them? Not making this up they're there, on those videos that you want to ban. It boils down to again, this is a video game, some people know how to have fun, some people don't. If you are in the video game business you might want to pay more attention to the people that do know how to have fun and less attention to the people that spend 99% of their time on these forums complaining. Of all these complaints, how many have experienced what they are complaining about direct? The whole mobius incursion? 15, 15 people get blown up in a game and how much time has been spent whining about it?
Sort your priorities folks. That includes you Zac.

Amen but good god your text color gave me the brain pains.
 
I also have to say the negativity that people put out is exaggerated greatly in comparison to the positive that gets highlighted. For instance, this forums is up in arms over what four people did in one night in Mobius. Those people have raised such a stink that frontier is changing their approach to Player interaction. Well, over on Reddit we have four stories just this last week of players interacting with SDC that had so much fun they took the time to post about it. Two of those players were stepping foot for the first time into open play. SDC is a group of content creators. When we do something we go all out given players the most fun experience they have had in game. Their words not mine. If you ever watch my stream when you see me pull up my friends look list take a look at it. Those are all people that I have blown up at some point or another. These people here complaining are people I've never even met before. This is a video game, in the end it's all about having fun. SDC is built around that.
Those stream snipes, did you bother to mention the ones that thanked us after we join their stream to snipe them? Not making this up they're there, on those videos that you want to ban. It boils down to again, this is a video game, some people know how to have fun, some people don't. If you are in the video game business you might want to pay more attention to the people that do know how to have fun and less attention to the people that spend 99% of their time on these forums complaining. Of all these complaints, how many have experienced what they are complaining about direct? The whole mobius incursion? 15, 15 people get blown up in a game and how much time has been spent whining about it?
Sort your priorities folks. That includes you Zac.

1: please don't colour your text makes viewing on certain themes tricky, specifically elite's default one :p
2: Frontier is not changing anything, they are clarifying what is already there, they haven't changed the wording or anything, they are making it clear, because apparently to some people it was unclear....
There was made a 'stink' over it as you call it, because it was a deplorable action, and SDC has exactly the same tools available to them, the tools the game is based around to fight back against those attacking their/your faction, the background simulation, now if you don't want to use those tools, which are part of the game you are playing, that is no one elses fault or choice but yours.
3: SDC are not the first nor unique in the actions done, your group simply did something that made the kettle boil over, on matters that already exist and are an issue, heck there's several threads about the consequences of griefers in open, namely people seeing less people in it, especially those that want to find pvp targets for piracy, so yeah....it is an issue that's been ongoing, but SDC became the last straw.
4: SDC is build around fun, cool, but then I would think that you would know that when that fun is one-sided that is a potential problem?, in general if one party is having fun at the expense of another, that party will eventually have to find ways of having fun alone? and it isn't even that hard to create good interactions and fun for everyone, and no it doesn't need to be care bear or such as gets thrown around not one bit, there just needs to be 'more' to it then, interdict boom, interdict boom.

Edit: and to clarify, there will yes, always be people that want no risk at all to what they do in their gameplay, but I think you will find as creators that the vast majority isn't like that, or at least that's my continual impression on this matter on the forum and with others I've talked to.
 
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You're not wrong at all! I'm against this post because I've done or been with others doing some of these things because we are allowed to. Personally I never liked the intrusion on Mobius and was never a part of it but the rest is simply silly. Banning people for killing charity streamers? How do you define something as being disruptive when the whole role you play in the game as a mercenary/terrorist is being disruptive? Am I going to be banned for posting a video of me killing others because I'm SDC and somehow that is interpreted that I was trying to gain notoriety? All of the offenses in this thread that are considered punishable are left vague and indefinite specifically so that they can be applied in any situation that Frontier feels fit. At the end of the day we all know nothing will come of this so this entire argument is pointless. Don't believe me? Look at the combat logging thread and tell me that wasn't another empty promise.

The problem with laws and similar constructs is that sometimes they have to be vague in order to cover the eventualities (GluttonyFang probably would tear this apart without even breaking a sweat...). In a flexible environment, you just can't draw the line and say 'if you do this and this, it's forbidden, but if you do this and that, it's allowed'. Which is why FD instated a law and a court, and just now has reminded everyone of this fact.
 
I also have to say the negativity that people put out is exaggerated greatly in comparison to the positive that gets highlighted. For instance, this forums is up in arms over what four people did in one night in Mobius. Those people have raised such a stink that frontier is changing their approach to Player interaction. Well, over on Reddit we have four stories just this last week of players interacting with SDC that had so much fun they took the time to post about it. Two of those players were stepping foot for the first time into open play. SDC is a group of content creators. When we do something we go all out given players the most fun experience they have had in game. Their words not mine. If you ever watch my stream when you see me pull up my friends look list take a look at it. Those are all people that I have blown up at some point or another. These people here complaining are people I've never even met before. This is a video game, in the end it's all about having fun. SDC is built around that.
Those stream snipes, did you bother to mention the ones that thanked us after we join their stream to snipe them? Not making this up they're there, on those videos that you want to ban. It boils down to again, this is a video game, some people know how to have fun, some people don't. If you are in the video game business you might want to pay more attention to the people that do know how to have fun and less attention to the people that spend 99% of their time on these forums complaining. Of all these complaints, how many have experienced what they are complaining about direct? The whole mobius incursion? 15, 15 people get blown up in a game and how much time has been spent whining about it?
Sort your priorities folks. That includes you Zac.


I don't get what point you're trying to make here.

Sure SDC have done some stuff Frontier don't want in game, they've also done some stuff Frontier DO want in game. I'm pretty sure Frontier would admit this.

I don't think Zac's post is targetting SDC specifically, more general behaviour which SDC have recently exhibited.

We've even had SDC members in recent threads saying they don't agree with some of SDCs recent actions then going on to explain SDC is a group of individuals.

I also think I'd say the folks who carried out these actions were well aware it would generate negative publicity - that was the bloomin' point!

To turn round and then complain about the negative publicity, just seems a bit..... eh?

Well let's just say I don't get where you're coming from.
 
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1: please don't colour your text makes viewing on certain themes tricky, specifically elite's default one :p
2: Frontier is not changing anything, they are clarifying what is already there, they haven't changed the wording or anything, they are making it clear, because apparently to some people it was unclear....
There was made a 'stink' over it as you call it, because it was a deplorable action, and SDC has exactly the same tools available to them, the tools the game is based around to fight back against those attacking their/your faction, the background simulation, now if you don't want to use those tools, which are part of the game you are playing, that is no one elses fault or choice but yours.
3: SDC are not the first nor unique in the actions done, your group simply did something that made the kettle boil over, on matters that already exist and are an issue, heck there's several threads about the consequences of griefers in open, namely people seeing less people in it, especially those that want to find pvp targets for piracy, so yeah....it is an issue that's been ongoing, but SDC became the last straw.
4: SDC is build around fun, cool, but then I would think that you would know that when that fun is one-sided that is a potential problem?, in general if one party is having fun at the expense of another, that party will eventually have to find ways of having fun alone? and it isn't even that hard to create good interactions and fun for everyone, and no it doesn't need to be care bear or such as gets thrown around not one bit, there just needs to be 'more' to it then, interdict boom, interdict boom.

Edit: and to clarify, there will yes, always be people that want no risk at all to what they do in their gameplay, but I think you will find as creators that the vast majority isn't like that, or at least that's my continual impression on this matter on the forum and with others I've talked to.

[h=3]Can I get an amen? AMEN![/h]
 
I don't get what point you're trying to make here.

Sure SDC have done some stuff Frontier don't want in game, they've also done some stuff Frontier DO want in game. I'm pretty sure Frontier would admit this.

I don't think Zac's post is targetting SDC specifically, more general behaviour which SDC have recently exhibited.

We've even had SDC members in recent threads saying they don't agree with some of SDCs recent actions then going on to explain SDC is a group of individuals.

I also think I'd say the folks who carried out these actions were well aware it would generate negative publicity, that's was the point.

To turn round and then complain about the negative publicity, just seems...... ?

Well let's just say I don't get where you're coming from.

You can't possibly believe that this thread isn't 100% about SDC. He literally went through the last 3 big things we've done lol.
 
Main difference though, is one is an aggressive action and one is a defensive action, one is an action, the other a reaction.
A grief (overwhelmingly more powerful then B) kills B - B gets upset, B in the future combat logs to avoid griefing.
B combat logs before A can destroy them. - A gets upset and rightly reports B for breaking rules.

Combat logging is already against the rules, so reporting should be done, but A is still the one that starts the episode that might lead to it, A could instead chose to attack a target that they are not overwhelmingly more powerful then, on more equal ground the likelihood of someone combat logging is less, (though yes I know, the risk of it is still there)

there's no main difference according to original post, it's just harassment, it doesnt say "well this one is worse so it's their fault"

Also FD doesnt ban combat loggers, there is a known station rammer and noob killer at stations that continuously combat logs when he gets close to dying and every CG i still see him.


also on your response to chance, we die a lot, and have rebuys in the 100s of millions per month
 
There was made a 'stink' over it as you call it, because it was a deplorable action, and SDC has exactly the same tools available to them, the tools the game is based around to fight back against those attacking their/your faction, the background simulation, now if you don't want to use those tools, which are part of the game you are playing, that is no one elses fault or choice but yours.
You're making it WAY TOO EASY for me. This is the exact same argument against combat logging! You have the EXACT SAME tools to use to run away/fight back but instead people go around and promote combat logging because they were "being griefed". Also, it's not about the actual in game targeting of our faction it's the fact that they are allowed to target our faction on the forums BY NAME.
 
You can't possibly believe that this thread isn't 100% about SDC. He literally went through the last 3 big things we've done lol.

Sure fine. But OP doesn't actually mention SDC it talks about behaviour.

If you want to make it all about SDC again then that's cool.

But it seems totally bizarre on one hand you'd do that while on the other you'd complain about getting bad publicity.

I mean one or the other right? Which is it?
 
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