#support3rdparty - Why we temporarily shut down our sites.

[Ozric]

It apparently took CCP a long time to realise the value in nurturing a healthy 3rd party developer culture, but nurture they did.

You would be well advised to watch this video CCP made...

Did 3rd party developers for EvE start off by making apps without the consent of CCP and often against their wishes, or did they wait to be provided with an API they were allowed to use? (honest question as I don't know the answer)

What priority, over or alongside other groups and developments, are you expecting to get for your suggestions?

 

[Finwen]

One big reason for me to buy a second account was to test multi player function in EDDiscovery so EDDiscovery has atleast contributed with 1 more sale for Frontier....

 

[oscarolim]

Use a linux box and whois, ingum-cz for both. API is not a file but interface, to access a DB to spit out 17-80kb html +js/css/ads (js/css loading once, sure they are like 900kb, ads are from google so not covered by hosting costs). Quesrying a 6GB file once will use around 50kb bandwith on average. Even if the dns is screwed how much does it cost for 10GB in france? You can still easily host hundreds of txt based pages with just ad on them, srsly, buzzfeed and kotaku would be out of business long ago (they even host their video reviews whatevers)

Wow, just wow.
Well, have a look at his API here: https://eddb.io/api

Those files are not generated on the fly. No one would be generating a 6GB file on demand. You are supposed to mirror those files as well, not access them directly, which means you have to periodically update them (I think he updates them once a day). So you need to have the space for them, and the bandwidth to serve them.

Let's say only one other website uses his data. One update a day, average 30 days a month, that's 30 updates in a month. 30 * 6GB data is 180GB. Just for one guy.
And this is without considering his website. Resources needed to concurrently serve all the pages. You know, having a hosted website visited by several concurrent users use a different amount of resources than having your test side running in localhost.

You can see the hosting prices here: https://www.gandi.net/hosting/iaas/prices
If I had to guess, the X-Large plan is probably the starting point. Assuming he buys the credits in advance to get a discount, it would run about $50. And this is assuming he doesn't have other services attached, like hardware based firewall for example, or DDOS prevention.

EDIT: Someone already posted the costs. Actually higher than my estimation.

Right, let's knock off the conjecture, speculation etc etc etc...

It's Friday and for the UK a Bank Holiday Weekend..

Play nice please.

Problem is the unpredictable weather, at least in Kent

 

[szopin]

And why exactly is all this important to you, or to us for that matter? What exactly is your point? Is it not enough that 3rd party devs spend their own time and resources to improve our game experience? You strike me as the kind of person that everyone avoids at the office water cooler because you're just annoying as hell.

Because the main narrative is: poor devs working for free for the community, not doing anything wrong towards the community, look they are paying out of pocket. Debunked. Turns out:
I spent thousends of hours creating and maintaining
I was working on it so hard
...

Noone asked you, noone gave you the green light (actually totally opposite, they said you should NOT reverse engineer their API), don't come here for your unpaid hours of voluntary work which was exactly that if not asked for, voluntary. Most devs seem actually ok and open source and willing to actually develop their own skills and enjoy the process, but some got really weird position that FDev owes them (with no contract, the opposite). And it turns out they also profit from this, so yeah, the whole argument is opposite, apologists try again

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, just wow.
Well, have a look at his API here: https://eddb.io/api

Those files are not generated on the fly. No one would be generating a 6GB file on demand. You are supposed to mirror those files as well, not access them directly, which means you have to periodically update them (I think he updates them once a day). So you need to have the space for them, and the bandwidth to serve them.

Let's say only one other website uses his data. One update a day, average 30 days a month, that's 30 updates in a month. 30 * 6GB data is 180GB. Just for one guy.
And this is without considering his website. Resources needed to concurrently serve all the pages. You know, having a hosted website visited by several concurrent users use a different amount of resources than having your test side running in localhost.

You can see the hosting prices here: https://www.gandi.net/hosting/iaas/prices
If I had to guess, the X-Large plan is probably the starting point. Assuming he buys the credits in advance to get a discount, it would run about $50. And this is assuming he doesn't have other services attached, like hardware based firewall for example, or DDOS prevention.

He already said he's making 130euro profit, so forget about your 6GB api files whatever that is (API is the interface, if the file is 6GB you'll still run your query and only pull relevant rows, so yeah, noone got time to retrieve 6GB)

 

[Infidel Deity]

See above, precedents have been set, why did explorers/miners/BGSers wait so long for their grievances to be dealt with? Because they didn't stoop to this level, we'll make other ppl's lives miserable until our things are sorted

And what will they do?

How?

 

[Jex =TE=]

You, and other people with similar opinions make me sick.

If a group of people - who make tools in their own free time, with NO REWARD, and have already tried to communicate with FDev over the last couple of years, feel that their efforts are being unappreciated by the game developers they're trying to support, then it is their absolute RIGHT to say 'enough is enough.'

YOU do not pay a penny to these people.
YOU have used their tools at least once.
YOU don't get to decide if a bunch of VOLUNTEERS are doing the wrong thing.

IF these guys were either contracted by Frontier to develop 3rd party tools, or they have been financially supported by Frontier at some point in the past, then POSSIBLY people may have a point about their timing, and the inconvenience it's causing. Much like when public services go on strike in the real world.

But, when a group of people who have tried, tried and tried again to get SOME useful communication from Frontier are feeling that their efforts are being wasted, and their pleas for help ignored... then why on earth should they not decide to take disruptive action? I mean, if they wanted to, they could just have easily said 'Right folks, we've had enough of this. We're closing down our sites, and if you don't like it - we really don't care because we owe you, the community, and Frontier, absolutely NOTHING.' They didn't, though, and they're doing pretty much the only thing they can do so prove just how reliant the Elite Dangerous community is on their services.

For people like you, get your entitled head out of your , stop trying to defend Frontier yet again, and never again use their tools - you clearly do not deserve them in any way.

So much this.

 

[szopin]

First of all, ads and donations give me like 200€ a month. So that makes a profit of 130€ before tax.
Actually calculating the "running cost" is another story. A developers hourly rate is what? Something between 50€ and 280€? Doesn't matter.

What matters is that I spent thousends of hours creating and maintaining EDDB and it was never about the money. It was about having fun supporting a game I love.

Whoever comes up with any thought about money - it doesn't matter here! If we make a loss of 50€ or a profit of 100€ - this is a joke compared to actual developer costs. So whoever is continuing on this argument - nope, it's not our reality!

Of course noone cares what developer hourly wage is as noone agreed to pay you per hour, so still not sure why this is part of any equations as to running costs. Thanks for coming clear that you're not actually throwing your own money at this, still 200euro seems bit low with stated millions of views with one ad per page. Thanks

 

[Jex =TE=]

Simple, read the post I quoted. And you didn't answer my last question to you Jex... I am sad

Awww i'm sorry but it's lost now. Not sure what question but I did read the post you quoted and you're wrong, it's nothing like what you said...

Except you start digging the rocks without asking if your neighbour wants the help, because you don't like the way his lawn looks.

They're not on their lawn and have nothing to do with it - what part of this don't you get?

 

[lysan]

You, and other people with similar opinions make me sick.

If a group of people - who make tools in their own free time, with NO REWARD, and have already tried to communicate with FDev over the last couple of years, feel that their efforts are being unappreciated by the game developers they're trying to support, then it is their absolute RIGHT to say 'enough is enough.'

YOU do not pay a penny to these people.
YOU have used their tools at least once.
YOU don't get to decide if a bunch of VOLUNTEERS are doing the wrong thing.

IF these guys were either contracted by Frontier to develop 3rd party tools, or they have been financially supported by Frontier at some point in the past, then POSSIBLY people may have a point about their timing, and the inconvenience it's causing. Much like when public services go on strike in the real world.

But, when a group of people who have tried, tried and tried again to get SOME useful communication from Frontier are feeling that their efforts are being wasted, and their pleas for help ignored... then why on earth should they not decide to take disruptive action? I mean, if they wanted to, they could just have easily said 'Right folks, we've had enough of this. We're closing down our sites, and if you don't like it - we really don't care because we owe you, the community, and Frontier, absolutely NOTHING.' They didn't, though, and they're doing pretty much the only thing they can do so prove just how reliant the Elite Dangerous community is on their services.

For people like you, get your entitled head out of your , stop trying to defend Frontier yet again, and never again use their tools - you clearly do not deserve them in any way.

Right on commander, keep the pressure up, the 3rd party DEVS is what will save the game in the end.

 

[Sentenza]

Is it video streaming? Here have b2b elite for 230euro with 10TB data, 1TB hdd:
http://www.inmotionhosting.com/dedicated-servers
But I clearly cannot know how much data can a server hosting text file only htmls can provide. Even if there was daily 10GB sync of whole DB you get 300GB per month, far from 10TB

I wish it was that simple reputation management, tracking tweets, facebook posts, real time analysis and whatever to monitor what people are saying about a business (the answer is always "bad things" )

 

[mikelimtw]

Forget about @szopin. It's quite obvious to me he's just trolling the thread. I've got better things to do with my time, like watching paint dry. The 3rd party devs work selflessly to increase my enjoyment of ED. I thank them from the bottom of my heart if they are paying out of pocket to do this for me, and if they are making a little money for their efforts, I wouldn't begrudge them of that.

 

[oscarolim]

He already said he's making 130euro profit, so forget about your 6GB api files whatever that is (API is the interface, if the file is 6GB you'll still run your query and only pull relevant rows, so yeah, noone got time to retrieve 6GB)

I was going to write something else, but...

If you think being a 3rd party developer gives you a living wage, why don't you start something as well?
Then come back here and share your tale. You might learn a thing or two along the way.

 

[Jex =TE=]

This thread is unbeleivable, the API isn't essential to anyone other than website creators, it doesnt generate revenue for FD unless they decide to monetarise it, all it does is add a load onto the resources used, no matter how small that be there is a cost involved, it also costs them man hours in dev time which THEY pay for.

LOL WHAT!!!!!!!!????????


I think WE paid for it thank you very much. FDev paid for nothing! WE gave them our money which them and their shareholders are benefitting from. How the hell did you come to a conclusion FDev paid for anything LMAO.

 

[szopin]

I wish it was that simple reputation management, tracking tweets, facebook posts, real time analysis and whatever to monitor what people are saying about a business (the answer is always "bad things" )

You're doing it in tens if not hundreds of millions of pulls, not enough ED players to end up with 700euro costs admit it

 

[oscarolim]

And what will they do?

How?

What are they gonna do? Shoot mining lasers against our engineered anacondas?

 

[szopin]

LOL WHAT!!!!!!!!????????


I think WE paid for it thank you very much. FDev paid for nothing! WE gave them our money which them and their shareholders are benefitting from. How the hell did you come to a conclusion FDev paid for anything LMAO.

No, FD said they are not willing to have fully supported API, reread the thread

 

[GreyAreaUK]

LOL WHAT!!!!!!!!????????


I think WE paid for it thank you very much. FDev paid for nothing! WE gave them our money which them and their shareholders are benefitting from. How the hell did you come to a conclusion FDev paid for anything LMAO.

Oh, stop trolling.

 

[fademist]

LOL WHAT!!!!!!!!????????


I think WE paid for it thank you very much. FDev paid for nothing! WE gave them our money which them and their shareholders are benefitting from. How the hell did you come to a conclusion FDev paid for anything LMAO.

and why fd needed to pay for anything..didnt ask anyone to make 3rd party tools though.

 

[Infidel Deity]

easy and I am sure there are more that could coalition but the Fuel Rats would be 1 if they decided to make demands

Oh my God, yes!
The Fuel Rats!
The bad and venomous Fuel Rats!

 

[szopin]

YOU do not pay a penny to these people.
YOU have used their tools at least once.
YOU don't get to decide if a bunch of VOLUNTEERS are doing the wrong thing.

Of course you do, your ad views fund them, your donations, your usage makes them go, your participation motivates them if they are motivated by community/game/coding experience etc), if they expect to get paid as professional devs, yeah you don't, go kickstart a company with goals and people can directly fund that. Just stop with this absurd argument they are doing it for free and all that happened is because they worry about the community (while putting it in flames)