#support3rdparty - Why we temporarily shut down our sites.

[szopin]

Sorry but that just sounds too much like "never negotiate with terrorists" in my opinion and the topic just isn't important enough to justify this comparison. Again, just in my humble opinion

Fair enough, though seen enough reddit tantrums where people start posting screenshots of their latest review and advise others to follow suit (the glorious 1k+ hours played, not recommended)

 

[babelfisch]

Citation needed, Braben sayinig he doesn't consider it cheating if people use outside of game tools is not the same, or do you have another quote?

Ed just said that he couldn't have done half the stuff he did without using 3rd party tools a few pages ago.

 

[szopin]

Ed just said that he couldn't have done half the stuff he did without using 3rd party tools a few pages ago.

Yeah he also said a lot about their communications, outside of PR trying to extinguish the flames any dev admitting they use/rely on those?

 

[Winterwalker]

If API has bugs that stop the tools that stop players, that hits ED where it hurts too of course so I'm not over critical, though I hope API devs can organise themselves to streamline their contact with FD, in return for FD's commitment to streamline theirs.

2.3 is still relatively fresh, Frontier still trying to stabilise the main game client (some xbox players still locked out entirely if I understand correctly) and I imagine PM's from indiviudual API tools devs would get lost in the overall noise of critical bug reports, putting quite a lot on FD's plate at a critical time.

So do the API devs have a Union representative now?

That would streamline. Imagine business as usual in the subforum and when a critical API problem arises the Union Rep, having got the shout from the API devs, red flags it with Frontier who'll take note because "Sir, Mr Mandela is on the phone!" (we could have a laugh about it being Mr Putin if you like, ha! classic). But this "red teleephone", means no need for dozens of messages, from every single app?

 

[Infidel Deity]

I don't see it as a win for anyone except those that will use these type of tactics to get what they want in the future because they see FD will cave to them

But I see it as a win for me. [yesnod]

And looking through this thread shows I'm far, far away from being the only one.

 

[Factabulous]

Excellent news that things are being resolved, kudos to FD for listening - this is a win for everyone [up]

 

[szopin]

If API has bugs that stop the tools that stop players, that hits ED where it hurts too of course so I'm not over critical, though I hope API devs can organise themselves to streamline their contact with FD, in return for FD's commitment to streamline theirs.

2.3 is still relatively fresh, Frontier still trying to stabilise the main game client (some xbox players still locked out entirely if I understand correctly) and I imagine PM's from indiviudual API tools devs would get lost in the overall noise of critical bug reports, putting quite a lot on FD's plate at a critical time.

So do the API devs have a Union representative now?

That would streamline. Imagine business as usual in the subforum and when a critical API problem arises the Union Rep, having got the shout from the API devs, red flags it with Frontier who'll take note because "Sir, Mr Mandela is on the phone!" (we could have a laugh about it being Mr Putin if you like, ha! classic). But this "red teleephone", means no need for dozens of messages, from every single app?

This might very well be the summary of their 5h offline discussion as doubt they pulled 2 full time devs to just work on that (or hope that isn't the case). Realistically they would need to get clear on finances with the 3rd party devs as some of them are clearly profiting from it and arrange a deal if they are interested on relying on third parties (and how to unionize it, some mentioned inara is using eddb, their same hosting suggests connections, others like EDDiscovery are actually doing it FOSS and for free as in paying out of their own pockets and no donations, 5h not really enough for that)

 

[Lucifer Hate]

But I see it as a win for me. [yesnod]

And looking through this thread shows I'm far, far away from being the only one.

yeah and wait for the next big group that wants something that you don't that uses this same tactic to strongarm FD because they see it works and see if it is a win for you then

 

[K-Rose]

Guys you need to learn something about the world, if you want change then you need to effectively draw attention to the cause. The most effective way to do that is to withdraw your labour/work. Of course FD had wished they'd done it another way, they've only been negatively affected by this. But the 3rd party devs felt like they had no other choice after months of no communication.

If you're saying for example "terrible precedent, others will try it", please explain how others can do this in any meaningful way.

I don't begrudge them doing it at all, at the end of the day these are real people doing real work trying their best with the information they have available.



Remember there are 3 groups here:

Frontier - Creators of the game, they are being paid to deliver a game that players want to play.

3rd Party Devs - Fans of the game that are going out of their way to enhance the players gameplay.

The players - Fans of the game that paid Frontier to play. Us mugs who each think we have the correct opinion.

 

[szopin]

Guys you need to learn something about the world, if you want change then you need to effectively draw attention to the cause. The most effective way to do that is to withdraw your labour/work. Of course FD had wished they'd done it another way, they've only been negatively affected by this. But the 3rd party devs felt like they had no other choice after months of no communication.

If you're saying for example "terrible precedent, others will try it", please explain how others can do this in any meaningful way.

I don't begrudge them doing it at all, at the end of the day these are real people doing real work trying their best with the information they have available.



Remember there are 3 groups here:

Frontier - Creators of the game, they are being paid to deliver a game that players want to play.

3rd Party Devs - Fans of the game that are going out of their way to enhance the players gameplay.

The players - Fans of the game that paid Frontier to play. Us mugs who each think we have the correct opinion.

SDC did it with a coordinated campaign of slaying newbies until FD went ahead with balancing heat meta, any bigger group can think of a way to impact them negatively financially, be it review bombing, griefing, not really that hard to think of a sleazy way to force yourself if you have enough drones, because reasons

 

[Infidel Deity]

yeah and wait for the next big group that wants something that you don't that uses this same tactic to strongarm FD because they see it works and see if it is a win for you then

Who?
When?

 

[szopin]

Who?
When?

See above, precedents have been set, why did explorers/miners/BGSers wait so long for their grievances to be dealt with? Because they didn't stoop to this level, we'll make other ppl's lives miserable until our things are sorted

 

[Winterwalker]

This might very well be the summary of their 5h offline discussion as doubt they pulled 2 full time devs to just work on that (or hope that isn't the case). Realistically they would need to get clear on finances with the 3rd party devs as some of them are clearly profiting from it and arrange a deal if they are interested on relying on third parties (and how to unionize it, some mentioned inara is using eddb, their same hosting suggests connections, others like EDDiscovery are actually doing it FOSS and for free as in paying out of their own pockets and no donations, 5h not really enough for that)

I think maybe we should know; Who is this API dev's representative? Were they elected democratically, by which group or was it decided by traffic? Is their code open source? Are they open about their google ad incomes? etc. because 5 hours! .. sheesh. The only good meeting is a short meeting!

 

[babelfisch]

SDC did it with a coordinated campaign of slaying newbies until FD went ahead with balancing heat meta, any bigger group can think of a way to impact them negatively financially, be it review bombing, griefing, not really that hard to think of a sleazy way to force yourself if you have enough drones, because reasons

That's not how it was. FDEV responded how they are going to fix it the very same day the campaign started. They already worked on it way before.

 

[szopin]

I think maybe we should know; Who is this API dev's representative? Were they elected democratically, by which group or was it decided by traffic? Is their code open source? Are they open about their google ad incomes? etc. because 5 hours! .. sheesh. The only good meeting is a short meeting!

Are you seriously expecting them to have come to the best/detailed solution (without even advice from legal? in 5h?) while extinguishing another fire before saturday? I seriously doubt it. Looks like most people are unaware how much hosting costs, how much money you get from ads. Again, no idea what relationships are between the devs, some do real FOSS out of their pocket, some rely on donations, some made a small business out of it. I seriously hope FD are considering the commercial option for those that profit, while free for those who do it actually for the community. Getting them one solution just for a quick fix will be bad in the long term

- - - Updated - - -

That's not how it was. FDEV responded how they are going to fix it the very same day the campaign started. They already worked on it way before.

Maybe here on the forum, on reddit it was at least a week long campaign with them boasting how they will continue until FD address their problems as pvp is broken so the game is dying and broken and whaaa

 

[babelfisch]

Maybe here on the forum, on reddit it was at least a week long campaign with them boasting how they will continue until FD address their problems as pvp is broken so the game is dying and broken and whaaa

IIRC they just didn't realise that the matter was already settled...

 

[szopin]

IIRC they just didn't realise that the matter was already settled...

Wasn't active here at the time, seen a lot of tantrum throwing on reddit, at least a week long. Maybe they pushed it until the patch dropped, don't remember. Still they did all they could to hurt FD, so exactly what k-rose was asking about how a group of people can force FD like this fiasco

 

[mikelimtw]

I'm just going to say that the timing of this is obvious, and to be honest, very childish. It is, at best, wasting the time and effort of the playerbase in the event. FDev didnt have to do anything for 3rd party developers at all.

As one of the Admirals coordinating the defense, you've now made my life a living hell, and I will not support 3rd party developers from this point forward.

With me, all this has accomplished is a personal boycott of sites that I once considered useful.

Had you done so at a time where it was less vital to Drew Wagar and more respectful to the amount of time and effort that people who aren't getting paid at all (like myself and literally more than a thousand others) I would be more supportive.

Wow, just wow. I don't even know how to relate to the irony inherent in this post. You aren't getting paid for your work... you mean like the 3rd party devs? And while you may have put months into this event and you are now inconvenienced, these devs have put years into their work. I find myself hardly sympathetic to your whining, since it seems to me that you have only experienced a very small slice of the inconvenience and frustration the 3rd party devs have had to endure. You want to boycott 3rd party tools now? Have at it, I hope you have fun playing sim spreadsheet.

What you and everybody else should realize is that FDev is now reaping what they sowed. I would absolutely not characterize their general behavior as community or player friendly - far from it. They insist on creating a game so obtuse and, shall I say it, not fun to play that others have had to step in and provide the kind of support and experience that FDev should be responsible for given they've taken our money and promised us a game. I frankly find FDev's attitude towards the community of players and developers to be scandalous.

I've said so in another post and I will repeat it here, FDev SHOULD be ensuring that the time each and every one of us spends in their game is fun - that is after all the purpose of gaming. But more importantly, it should be meaningful. We all take time out of our lives to play this game. If that were not the case, where would FDev continue to receive revenue? No one would be purchasing in game cosmetic content for a game they have given up playing. If this is what it takes to get FDev's attention, I fully support it.

 

[Achilles7]

Haven't been on the forums for a while - have I missed anything? Probably not - things are pretty dull around here, right?

Discussion on bobbleheads..hmmm / Paint degradation..yawwwwn! / Griefers...same old same old / BGS...oh that's interesting Monkey! / AI...Ziljan humble-bragging..ughh

Nope, everything just as I left it!

Hang on a minute, what's this? :O

We're taking away all of the info tools!' WHOOAAAA!

 

[babelfisch]

Wasn't active here at the time, seen a lot of tantrum throwing on reddit, at least a week long. Maybe they pushed it until the patch dropped, don't remember. Still they did all they could to hurt FD, so exactly what k-rose was asking about how a group of people can force FD like this fiasco

But it didn't change anything

Nobody cared and FDEV wanted to fix it anyway, it was just a waste of time and very ridiculous