#support3rdparty - Why we temporarily shut down our sites.

[Zyr1987]

I admit, I seriously don't get why people need the third party tools for the game to be playable or fun (yes, people have said that in this thread, I read the entire thread). Seriously, I'm not trying to insult anyone, it just makes no sense to me.

On the topic of third party tools, I don't use them at all (save for playing with ship builds in Coriolis), and I have plenty of fun, make all the money I need, have no problem finding stuff, and am happy to wing it rather than try to figure out what will make the most money for me. The game is far from unplayable for me, plus I prefer to be challenged to some extent, which looking everything up would eliminate, and leave me, personally, bored. You may feel differently, and you have a right to, but that's my opinion.

 

[Faybs]

No, what's bad is this is what was needed to get them to listen. Those third party sites are vital to a game like ED and the fact that they had to resort to screaming and shouting to get some vitally needed attention doesn't say much for FD's ability to communicate and deal with its fanbase.

I have a theory, based on the good feature set but low quality of 2.3 and this latest kerfuffle, that FDEv is currently stretched thin. Either 2.4 ran into serious unforeseen problems or the new hollywood-licensed game is siphoning resources away from ED.

 

[sb413197]

I hope this thread convinces Elite to build these things into the game, so that third parties don't need to do it. Elite 2.4: the end of third party apps

 

[Sandmann]

You may feel differently, and you have a right to, but that's my opinion.

I think the strength of the responses in this thread speak volumes about how many DO feel differently.

Don't get me wrong... I'm a lot like you, I only ever used a trade diary thing, one that allowed me to record my own data or not, rather than an automated one that told me where the best trades were which I saw as simply replacing the old pen & paper recording. I didn't see the need for many third party tools, but I'm aware that many players DO enjoy it AND that there's a great many tools etc that simply should have been in the game in the first place and aren't (which is WHY these third party tools are flourishing and being seen as necessary by some now).

The speed and direction of FD's response to this thread demonstrates to me that they're aware that the game has "holes" that the third party tools fill too. If they didn't feel they were broadly necessary to the ever diminishing player base I doubt they'd have even bothered responding.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

I don't use them at all (save for playing with ship builds in Coriolis),

So you do use 3rd party tools - what do you think the ship builder is ? A banana ?

Stop lying and accept the fact that ED is lacking in some areas (different areas for different people) and the stop gap are filled by 3rd party tools.

 

[lokvette]

I admit, I seriously don't get why people need the third party tools for the game to be playable or fun (yes, people have said that in this thread, I read the entire thread). Seriously, I'm not trying to insult anyone, it just makes no sense to me.

On the topic of third party tools, I don't use them at all (save for playing with ship builds in Coriolis), and I have plenty of fun, make all the money I need, have no problem finding stuff, and am happy to wing it rather than try to figure out what will make the most money for me. The game is far from unplayable for me, plus I prefer to be challenged to some extent, which looking everything up would eliminate, and leave me, personally, bored. You may feel differently, and you have a right to, but that's my opinion.

Damn it trying to log into ME,A

I use EDDB mainly as a tool for finding stuff, be it mats or mods, and even then its not 100% right all of the time, but it cuts down on the frustration off flying to A looking for B only to find that its over at C which was a lot closer and could have saved you a lot of time. For me they are time saves and offer a huge amount of information that is lacking in game, the game is fully playable fun to play without them, they enhance the game for me, but then I can still remember getting off the sofa to switch over the channel and hitting rewind on the VCR....

 

[Kosmetas]

I hope this thread convinces Elite to build these things into the game, so that third parties don't need to do it. Elite 2.4: the end of third party apps

Quoted for truth. These actions today should be the beginning of the end these 3rd party entities.

 

[Lucian667]

I have a theory, based on the good feature set but low quality of 2.3 and this latest kerfuffle, that FDEv is currently stretched thin. Either 2.4 ran into serious unforeseen problems or the new hollywood-licensed game is siphoning resources away from ED.

Well hopefully not, but lets face it, FD have never been particularly good at communicating with its fanbase, its one of the things that makes people feel they have to scream loudly to be heard in the first place. But you'd think they'd make an exception for such critically important third party sites which help with the functionality of their game so much. Lol, apparently not.

 

[szopin]

I admit, I seriously don't get why people need the third party tools for the game to be playable or fun (yes, people have said that in this thread, I read the entire thread). Seriously, I'm not trying to insult anyone, it just makes no sense to me.

On the topic of third party tools, I don't use them at all (save for playing with ship builds in Coriolis), and I have plenty of fun, make all the money I need, have no problem finding stuff, and am happy to wing it rather than try to figure out what will make the most money for me. The game is far from unplayable for me, plus I prefer to be challenged to some extent, which looking everything up would eliminate, and leave me, personally, bored. You may feel differently, and you have a right to, but that's my opinion.

Because buying trading data from surrounding systems is too tedious (as is utilising the galaxy map correctly, don't even mention the market tools which will list you where the goods are coming from, there are no tools!). When you're min-maxing you'll go with sidewinder to suicide after planetary scan as you don't lose the rewards and save some 50 seconds on the way back. We need eve-level spreadsheets in the game for some people, or they are just totally lost. Finding a better route than any 3rd party tool will get you is not enjoyable, it is the back and forth which normally is called the tedious part that is 'fun'. Yeah, I don't get it myself, but hey, at least we can hope FD learned their lesson, that'll teach them (hopefully not to become nintendo, but we'll see)

 

[Faybs]

I admit, I seriously don't get why people need the third party tools for the game to be playable or fun (yes, people have said that in this thread, I read the entire thread). Seriously, I'm not trying to insult anyone, it just makes no sense to me.

On the topic of third party tools, I don't use them at all (save for playing with ship builds in Coriolis), and I have plenty of fun, make all the money I need, have no problem finding stuff, and am happy to wing it rather than try to figure out what will make the most money for me. The game is far from unplayable for me, plus I prefer to be challenged to some extent, which looking everything up would eliminate, and leave me, personally, bored. You may feel differently, and you have a right to, but that's my opinion.

I haven't used anything other than Coriolis recently either, but in the early days tools like Slopey's were absolutely needed to trade. The data showed in the system map about what goods are imported and exported would frequently be wrong, or maybe just out of date. Before using Slopey's I would do scouting around a group of systems, writing down what they import and export, and make up a trade loop from that. Most of the time this would result in substantial losses if I bought something that a particular system supposedly exported and sold it at a system that supposedly imported it, so eventually I just gave up on using in-game data. What these tools gave us was accurate data.

 

[Saxon Kili]

I used fast food napkins to take down data, before I learned that there were third party tools.

It's not like a *starship* would have a computer with a *database*? We can't have that! It's almost as bad as the Docking Computer, or FA-On!

Information sharing, it's evil. I know that when I need a part for my car I don't check the internet. No! That's lazy and unimmersive. I actually drive to each auto parts store that I can think of (from memory, mind you) and ask the clerk "You have this part", until someone finally does. Because when you spend an entire day doing something that would take 5 minutes tops using the internet, you get a great sense of achievement. And that's what these kids today don't understand. If you do it by yourself, without help from others, it's awesome. Getting help from others makes ya weak! XD

Using the forums though, that's ok.

 

[Zyr1987]

So you do use 3rd party tools - what do you think the ship builder is ? A banana ?

Stop lying and accept the fact that ED is lacking in some areas (different areas for different people) and the stop gap are filled by 3rd party tools.

Nice try to get a rise out of me. I admitted I use one tool occasionally (and, I will say, just for fun, not for in-game benefit), and suddenly I'm lying about ... something? That makes 0 sense. Seriously, what are you trying to prove?

 

[Madrax573]

Let's see how well you do without *your* cell phone...

The third-party developers are providing functionality that should have been included in the base game to start with. Learn from the best: When Bill Gates saw something better than what he had, he stole it.

I LOVE doing without my cell phone! LOVE IT!!

However it has been a long time since I could be mistaken for a whiney teenager.

All I hope now is that the 3rd part guys and FD keep talking and help each other as much as practicable and we don't just see more and more of 'do this or I'm shutting my stuff down again' threads.
The precedent has been set is all I'm saying and these kind of precedents are not a good thing in my experience.

 

[Lucian667]

All I hope now is that the 3rd part guys and FD keep talking and help each other as much as practicable and we don't just see more and more of 'do this or I'm shutting my stuff down again' threads.
The precedent has been set is all I'm saying and these kind of precedents are not a good thing in my experience.

The really sad thing is that those 3rd party site owners thought that this type of desperate stunt was the only way they could possibly attract FD's attention. And it seems they were right!

 

[szopin]

I hope this thread convinces Elite to build these things into the game, so that third parties don't need to do it. Elite 2.4: the end of third party apps

3.0 more likely (and probably with some reasonable limitations, what's the point of exploring and scanning systems if you can just search for any and get all info right away, if ppl wanted to play eve they still can)

 

[Madrax573]

The really sad thing is that those 3rd party site owners thought that this type of desperate stunt was the only way they could possibly attract FD's attention. And it seems they were right!

Well they got a result.

Whether they were right is a whole other discussion IMO. Without knowing what they had officially tried prior (not just forum whining) I honestly can't give my thoughts on it.

I just hope it stops here and progresses in a mature manner from now on.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

The really sad thing is that those 3rd party site owners thought that this type of desperate stunt was the only way they could possibly attract FD's attention. And it seems they were right!

That to me was my understanding of the situation as well ... desperate times call for desperate measures

Without knowing what they had officially tried prior (not just forum whining).

You did read the 1st post, right ?! Go read it again ... they tell you exactly what they did and no, it wasn't just forum whining.

 

[Lucian667]

I just hope it stops here and progresses in a mature manner from now on.

Agreed, but if you re-read the OP, there's a real sense of desperation there, It really seemed they felt like they had tried every avenue, there was no other option and this was an absolute last resort. Hopefully FD will see this whole thing as a valuable object lesson in communicating far more effectively with their fanbase in the future. Lol, probably not but we can always hope.

 

[Zyr1987]

That to me was my understanding of the situation as well ... desperate times call for desperate measures



You did read the 1st post, right ?! Go read it again ... they tell you exactly what they did and no, it wasn't just forum whining.

Just so you don't miss it, I would like a response to this:

Nice try to get a rise out of me. I admitted I use one tool occasionally (and, I will say, just for fun, not for in-game benefit), and suddenly I'm lying about ... something? That makes 0 sense. Seriously, what are you trying to prove?

 

[Madrax573]

That to me was my understanding of the situation as well ... desperate times call for desperate measures



You did read the 1st post, right ?! Go read it again ... they tell you exactly what they did and no, it wasn't just forum whining.

Yup I read it and re-read it a few times to ensure that I understood it.

And it boils down to - You don't have a formal 3rd party API system. Give us one. And stop changing stuff in it!

Simple as that. There is a working API and has been for some time. FD have always said that they weren't going down the formal API route (similar to what EVE went with) and that information would change as the game developed.

The 3pd lot then decided that they weren't been listened to enough and decided to spit their dummies. FD got in touch and they have worked stuff out and have a plan going forward.
Apart form general forum whining and the 3rd party section of the forum I personally don't know what, if anything, was done by this particular group of people before they decided to take this course of action which is why I specifically stated such and will refrain from speculating on the matter.

However I do NOT agree that this course of action was the best way forward and certainly that they have a 'right' for anything.

I do agree and acknowledged that these people do some bloody good work on their tool and deserve the respect for such work and achievements.

People however will take from this whatever they want based on their own predisposition and how much of a gripe they have with various parties at the time.

Time will tell if this was a useful action to take or not. And if you don't understand what i mean by that then I feel sorry for you as I won't be explaining it to you.