System map overhaul needed

[-VR- Max Factor]

Snipped for brevity.

Last point first: What it is called has nothing to do with the discussion, it doesn't matter how you define the word 'map'.

I do think that it is important, as the current view is not a map and is not very usefull for navigating around the system.

On a related note, questioning whether someone is an 'explorer', or is other words a 'true scotsman' is pointless too. A system view/summary/map (of whatever type) will be available to all player types. By all means ask specific questions as tests to determine how much weight my (or any other player that holds a different view) opinion is worth to the reader. I'll answer any specific question as frankly as I can if others do too. There is no need to assume that all true explorers hold one view, and anyone holding a different view clearly therefore cannot be a true explorer.

I have never questioned whether someone is an explorer or not.

Explorers like to discover places and solve puzzles, to find glitches in the game & reach places that perhaps were never intended to be reached. I like to solve puzzles, I like to see how much I can achieve with sub-optimal equipment, or all-purpose equipment rather than specialising. To me, a 'true explorer' would scoff at being given an easier way to achieve a goal, their satisfaction is derived from the challenge of completing the incomplete dataset.

I beg your parden. Your deifinition of an explorer seems a bit off. Explorer definition: a person who explores a new or unfamiliar area. It has nothing to do with puzzles or finding gliches in the game. The other two are correct though. I am sorry, but when I explore somewhere I want the optimal equipment. Being prepared for your expedition is vital, and a true explorer I suspect would think that you are mad to not be fully prepared for your journey.

Achievers look to min/max, to achieve targets set either by the rules or by themselves. If you are out in a 60+ly Conda you are an achiever, pushing the upper limits of what you can get the equipment to do. An achiever would want to optimise stuff, travel as fast as they can, beat personal records, save time. An Achiever wants more tools so they can better optimise their routine.

What has this got to do with an orrey map?

Socialisers want to meet people, they want to go where everyone else goes, they want to know where others are, whether they be like-minded or enemies. A socialiser wants more tools so they can interact more with others.

What has this got to do with an orrey map?

Griefers want to meet people too, but for different reasons. Their requirements are similar to socialisers as far as this discussion is concerned, but their biggest gift to the community is their ability to break the game, to find bugs & exploits, and use their knowledge at the expense of others. They would love more tools, because more tools means more stuff to take advantage of.

What has this got to do with an orrey map?

So out of the lot of us, Explorers as a demographic are the ones least likely to benefit from adding another way to view a system. We currently have SuperCruise (eyes out the window and scanner), the left nav panel and the system view (sysmap). The Explorer can put the info together & solve the 'puzzle' of where they are in relation to everything (and everyone) else.

Erm what has solving puzzles got to do with exploration. Nothing, thats what. And I fail to see why explorers would be the least ones to benefit. As an example it sounds like you think I should go hiking in scotland without a map and just a list of what mountains there are in the area and what height they are and try to figure where to go from that because I should enjoy the puzzle. Sorry but no. I want enjpy finding new areas, amazing mountain ranges, black hole with amazing effects etc, but I don't want it take a stupid amount of time to do that but figuring out unnecessary puzzles. Exploration takes too long as it is.

To be honest your post here is frankly bizarre. While I do like puzzles in games, i like some tools to work those puzzles out. I have no wish to look out the window and start faffing about trying to decipher what the best route to scan the planets are when we have the technology now to do this now, even my smart phone has the power to do it with ease.

So instead of taking 3 hours to scan a large system, I can do it in 1 or 2 hours. It still gonna take a long time, but not as stupidly long as it would normally take. And that 3 hours is not an exaggeration.

I also find that link of what player are you to be completely rubbish as it doesn't give enough options.
My results are:

You are 100% Explorer

What Bartle says:

♠ Explorers delight in having the game expose its internal machinations to them. They try progressively esoteric actions in wild, out-of-the-way places, looking for interesting features (ie. bugs) and figuring out how things work. Scoring points may be necessary to enter some next phase of exploration, but it's tedious, and anyone with half a brain can do it. Killing is quicker, and might be a constructive exercise in its own right, but it causes too much hassle in the long run if the deceased return to seek retribution. Socialising can be informative as a source of new ideas to try out, but most of what people say is irrelevant or old hat. The real fun comes only from discovery, and making the most complete set of maps in existence.
You are also:

47% Socialiser

40% Achiever

13% Killer

 

[Franc Kaos]

So out of the lot of us, Explorers as a demographic are the ones least likely to benefit from adding another way to view a system. We currently have SuperCruise (eyes out the window and scanner), the left nav panel and the system view (sysmap). The Explorer can put the info together & solve the 'puzzle' of where they are in relation to everything (and everyone) else.
So. What type of player are you?

Dominant left brain users identify better with logic, structure, language, rationality whilst right brainers get more information from a visual medium than from textual. Broad generalisation of course and most people fall on a scale somewhere between the two, but not all explorers can put the info we get at present & solve the 'puzzle' of where they are in relation to everything (and everyone) else.
So. What type of player are you?

BTW:
[h=1]The Bartle Test of Gamer Psychology
[/h] [h=1]You are 87% Explorer[/h]

 

[Jukelo]

For everyone getting nostalgic about the orrery in Elite 2 it's only functionality was for selecting auto pilot/navigation target lock. All of the useful information was provided in the schematic view.

I strongly disagree here. I was an avid explorer in FE2, the orrery map was priceless for quickly getting a sense of which planet would give you the best views. Spent hundreds of hours in that game just playing with the orrery view.

 

[Non Grata]

Dominant left brain users identify better with logic, structure, language, rationality whilst right brainers get more information from a visual medium than from textual. Broad generalisation of course and most people fall on a scale somewhere between the two, but not all explorers can put the info we get at present & solve the 'puzzle' of where they are in relation to everything (and everyone) else.
So. What type of player are you?

BTW:
The Bartle Test of Gamer Psychology


You are 87% Explorer

Pretty sure I'm both.

edit: apparently I'm 50/50

 

[Riverside]

Pretty sure I'm both.

edit: apparently I'm 50/50

We're all all of them to some degree. I've just done the test again & I score:

You are 93% Explorer

What Bartle says:

♠ Explorers delight in having the game expose its internal machinations to them. They try progressively esoteric actions in wild, out-of-the-way places, looking for interesting features (ie. bugs) and figuring out how things work. Scoring points may be necessary to enter some next phase of exploration, but it's tedious, and anyone with half a brain can do it. Killing is quicker, and might be a constructive exercise in its own right, but it causes too much hassle in the long run if the deceased return to seek retribution. Socialising can be informative as a source of new ideas to try out, but most of what people say is irrelevant or old hat. The real fun comes only from discovery, and making the most complete set of maps in existence.
You are also:

73% Achiever

20% Socialiser

13% Killer

There was a thread on the Bartle test a month or two ago, my score was similar then too.

If anyone is interested in what this is about there's a good link at the end of the test that goes into far more detail than I ever could

 

[Jools]

Astonishing? Really?! Have you not read this forum? Every other thread is someone demanding Frontier implement their pet idea, whether it be atmospheric planets, new ships, legs, better missions etc. etc. They can't possibly do everything. Whilst a 3D map would be cool, it's really not essential to gameplay and therefore its perfectly reasonable for them to not prioritise it. Feel free to argue it's important to you, but loose the hyperbole.

People`s pet ideas?

Really?

It was an advertised feature

THEY TOOK MONEY FOR THAT FEATURE

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE RELEASED MARCH 2014

It`s not my idea, it`s frontier`s offer that they presented to us and then failed to deliver on

Why are you people making excuses.... for a MULTIMILLION pound company??? For people that at the lowest earn 10X the salary of typical labourer, supposedly experts in their fields... producing C grade software and A grade they don`t care about you at all, all they wan`t is as much of your money they can get at the lowest possible investment

The fact is either they have lied then, or they lie now... My money is on both

 

[Ian Phillips]

Pet ideas?

THEY TOOK MONEY FOR THAT FEATURE

IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE RELEASED MARCH 2014

....snip....

The fact is either they have lied then, or they lie now... My money is on both

"Frontier lied"
"IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE RELEASED MARCH 2014"

< looks up release date of game > Game released in December 2014

Something doesn't add up here !

 

[Jools]

I strongly disagree here. I was an avid explorer in FE2, the orrery map was priceless for quickly getting a sense of which planet would give you the best views. Spent hundreds of hours in that game just playing with the orrery view.

Exactly... You could even plan to come back to a given place at a time (taken from the orrery map, by using its time forwarding feature) when planets would align, or be close together or whatever...

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

"Frontier lied"
"IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE RELEASED MARCH 2014"

< looks up release date of game > Game released in December 2014

Something doesn't add up here !

Statements in CAPS ARE AUTOMATICALLY TRUE, regardless of any other so-called 'facts'.
FACT!

 

[Jools]

"Frontier lied"
"IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE RELEASED MARCH 2014"

< looks up release date of game > Game released in December 2014

Something doesn't add up here !

And the ofcial KS release date before the first delay was?

March 2014

You people are very quick to forget

 

[Ian Phillips]

And the ofcial KS release date before the first delay was?

March 2014

You people are very quick to forget

So, if FD make an orrey map, will you start to play the game?

 

[Jools]

Statements in CAPS ARE AUTOMATICALLY TRUE, regardless of any other so-called 'facts'.
FACT!

UP: opinion
BELOW: Facts

So, if FD make an orrey map, will you start to play the game?

HMMM. I would definitely at least check it out, but there is a high probability that yes i would (If it had the ability to move time forward and back like the map in FE2 had), because I`m an explorer at heart, and the systems are very interesting... at least until the game crashes again, or hangs in a 120 second long "seamless transition" or until i launch a multi tonne metal object into space by launching lasers at it (so scientifically accurate., or until i meet 100th tasty cargo commander who is after my 2 tonnes of crap tats worth a couple of credits,

I wouldn`t stop complaining though because this is just a little drop in a sea of unfulfilled commitments (please don`t make me cite 30 first newsletters or so). Orrery is great but can`t replace all the other things that are missing.

I wouldn`t buy horizons or any future content until it`s released too

And what was that question about really?

 

[Ian Phillips]

Yep. Seeing that.... "ESTIMATED DELIVERY Mar 2014"

What was your point again?

Edit:
Also can't see any mention of Orrey Map in the rewards.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Yep. Seeing that.... "ESTIMATED DELIVERY Mar 2014"

What was your point again?

Edit:
Also can't see any mention of Orrey Map in the rewards.

It was mentioned in a newsletter stating the the picture was a work in progress and they only had some tweaking to do on it. It wasn't as it is obvious that it was concept art. I wouldn't say that they promised it, but they certainly made it look like they where working on it and it wasn't far from being finished.

 

[Riverside]

http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=ffe2385d13

It's the Hitchhikers bit. We don't have a 'sector view' either, I guess the plan developed in a different direction.

 

[Jools]

Yep. Seeing that.... "ESTIMATED DELIVERY Mar 2014"

What was your point again?

Edit:
Also can't see any mention of Orrey Map in the rewards.

http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=ffe2385d13

05-07-2013 : "The image above represents our current development for the Orrery View, however David keenly noted that the comet trail from Thais is pointing the incorrect way to be scientifically accurate, so there are still some amendments to be made! The map is designed to be as information rich as possible, providing players with a range of various views, filters and search options that can be configured to their own play style."

"ESTIMATED DELIVERY Mar 2014"


Orrery was not a reward... It was a part of a game

please stop twisting reality

They said they have it almost done.... it was a lie... what`s so hard to understand?

 

[GJ51]

The Orrery Map would be nice

But I hardly think it not being in the game at present is a deal breaker

Come on, lighten up a bit

 

[Ian Phillips]

http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=ffe2385d13

It's the Hitchhikers bit. We don't have a 'sector view' either, I guess the plan developed in a different direction.

Right - so thats where the Orrery map was mentioned? That newsletter came out in July 2013 so they can't have "Taken money" for the Orrery map if that is where it from because the kickstarter finished on 5 jan 2013.

Also, OMG I'm in that newsletter In the Lavecon photo.

Edit: corrections in timeline

 

[Obsidian Ant]

http://us2.campaign-archive2.com/?u=dcbf6b86b4b0c7d1c21b73b1e&id=ffe2385d13

05-07-2013 : "The image above represents our current development for the Orrery View, however David keenly noted that the comet trail from Thais is pointing the incorrect way to be scientifically accurate, so there are still some amendments to be made! The map is designed to be as information rich as possible, providing players with a range of various views, filters and search options that can be configured to their own play style."

"ESTIMATED DELIVERY Mar 2014"


Orrery was not a reward... It was a part of a game

please stop twisting reality

They said they have it almost done.... it was a lie... what`s so hard to understand?

To be honest, I don't think it is hard to understand. Some people are disappointed that it looks like the Orrery Map isn't happening, but others don't understand that disappointment (I suspect in reality the do understand, but they actually dislike the strong reactions ).

I fall into the disappointed camp. Why? Because of the ideas it hinted at towards gameplay. There's a few of those ideas been mentioned in this thread so far. Personally, I feel the Orrery Map is a way to tie many of the game elements together - it could be a data rich resource for just about everything, offering insights into missions, combat, player and NPC targets, exploration, USS detection, trade, mysteries and just about everything else. Such a map could also be populated with data generated by player actions.

However, all that said - Frontier might still be heading in that direction with a different method. It's possible the codex and voiced galnet could offer these functionalities (and I am sure improvements to the existing maps are not out of the question).

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

The Orrery Map would be nice

But I hardly think it not being in the game at present is a deal breaker

Come on, lighten up a bit

Yep, it's not a deal breaker for me. It would be very useful and could lead to some really good gameplay updates such as USS's, CZ and other in system stuff. But I can live without it, like I have been for the previous three years.