Ta-ra

[Han Zulu]

Quite depressing skimming this thread and seeing so many voices in such strong agreement with Jackie's opinion of the new exploration stuff being a game breaker for them. Are you really not prepared to give it a try before making your decision? As someone who seems to love the intricacies of this wonderful procedurally generated galaxy that Frontier have produced for us I would have thought that you would have been the first to admit that the old "honk and voila, you've found what the current system has to offer" mechanism was a shallow placeholder of an exploration mechanic and that the richness of the galaxy deserved something a lot more "scientific" and "research" like to uncover its mysteries? (not to mention that handing your discoveries in to Universal Cartographics actually now has meaning and benefit for the wider ED community)?

I'm sticking around. Just to let my voice heard.

Not a huge fan of the new system, but it's workable. I wish they had expanded on existing tech and mechanics rather than replacing. Replacing what we had and make it more complex doesn't add anything. When the problem is that things are missing, then adding things is the answer, not just doing some switch-a-roo. With that said, I have a feeling FDev is adding more POIs and things to find over time, so it might eventually all make sense... hopefully.

 

[Roybe]

I'm sticking around. Just to let my voice heard.

Not a huge fan of the new system, but it's workable. I wish they had expanded on existing tech and mechanics rather than replacing. Replacing what we had and make it more complex doesn't add anything. When the problem is that things are missing, then adding things is the answer, not just doing some switch-a-roo. With that said, I have a feeling FDev is adding more POIs and things to find over time, so it might eventually all make sense... hopefully.

Actually, they are just hoping people start finding out what is actually in the game.

Adam even said, it was nice that people found something that was in the game for over 4 years. How much content have we missed because the exploration mechanics were so poorly implented...

 

[marx]

How much content have we missed because the exploration mechanics were so poorly implented...

Probably very little, as they could have given clues pointing towards where they might have been. For an excellent example, see the Zurara and the story of how it wasn't found first, and how exactly it was found later.

 

[GJ51]

I've been trialling the FSS in the beta, and I'm going to keep at it for a while, but it hasn't so far done anything except confirm my suspicions that I would not enjoy it. Bear in mind, that I've only been out exploring for three months in total, and only started playing the game in April, so I am definitely not the "old guard who don't want familiar things to change"!

There have been numerous discussions on how it could have been dealt with, how discovering other hidden things could live alongside the sysmap reveal, and also as to why it isn't necessarily a great new thing, so I'm not going to dwell on any of those areas, but the key points I've formed in my mind so far after testing are these:

1: It is a lengthy process, even after practice, and it is just something I want to get through so I can get on with things. (In some systems, I can do the current method of flying to each object to scan it quicker than the FSS)
2: I feel disengaged from my ship, the local space, and everything else whilst using the FSS. I no longer feel like I'm playing Elite at that point, plus I enjoyed having to fly to the objects, I got a better feel for the layout of the system.
3: It seems to devalue "first discovered" tags, in that you can tag everything from one place - those 300kls distant sub-systems are as easy to tag as something 1ls away now.
4: I want to see the whole sysmap / Orrery. If I want to do that, I have no choice but to play the FSS game until the whole system is discovered - there is no choice there. In turn, this means I will then have hoovered up the entire system for first-discovered tags, and then I'm back to point 3, and also point 1...
5: It just isn't fun (for me). And that's the clincher; because this has to be fun!

The probes are still something I'm getting to grips with, and I've got mixed feelings about them to be honest. It feels rather too gamey in a lot of ways, and I dislike the look of objects when using them via the analysis hud (the different hud modes are currently annoying, but I can see this would certainly be something I'd get used to in the end, rather than being something I couldn't live with!)

Very much agree

I've been at it for a few hours today, but still don't see the rationale for the way things currently work.

1) Can't maneuver when in DSS mode firing probes???

2) Crippling the ADS scan seems unnecessary as you still need to travel anywhere to do any mapping, and it only takes a few seconds to review the signals to see if there's any high value targets, It's just a time wasting exercise. And then, they save time by being able to do the FSS locate/zoom without having to go there. I just don't get it. The FSS basically shows what used to require the DSS scan, but now you don't need to travel there to find that info, but then you need to travel to do the mapping that usually adds nothing to what you already know. ???

3) So far I've mapped a few landable planets and haven't found any POI's anyway, so how long will it be before no one bothers?

 

[Martind Forlon]

Imo giving up, before was given to a new mechanics a fair chance to prove its qualities, is not good decision (or it can be called overreaction). And also this new exploration mechanism is not even in live game yet, so we cannot be sure if there will be, or not, changes (and they also can come later). Maybe OP (and others) should look here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/454902-Reaction-From-An-FSS-Skeptic ...

ED was in all these years (for me) about ability to adapt on changes, exploration is now in similar situation like many other aspects of this game which is still evolving.

 

[Han Zulu]

Actually, they are just hoping people start finding out what is actually in the game.

Adam even said, it was nice that people found something that was in the game for over 4 years. How much content have we missed because the exploration mechanics were so poorly implented...

That's true. It's been way too hard to find things, but now they made one thing easier, but the other harder, so in the end, maybe it's faster to reach the end result, but a lot more work to do the cursory and simple. They probably could've just added the drones/probes and made some additional scanning feature akin to FSS but without removing what was there. I don't know. We'll see. I'm for one is going ahead and will try it out for a while. The only real issue I have is that you have to do it in SC. It's too much of a target painted on your back if you play in Open. Would be nice to go to normal space and "hide" while you're researching a system. Not sure why SC is a requirement.

 

[Han Zulu]

Probably very little, as they could have given clues pointing towards where they might have been. For an excellent example, see the Zurara and the story of how it wasn't found first, and how exactly it was found later.

They could add science/exploration missions that would give hints and help to find POIs.

 

[Alec Turner]

Actually, they are just hoping people start finding out what is actually in the game.

Adam even said, it was nice that people found something that was in the game for over 4 years. How much content have we missed because the exploration mechanics were so poorly implented...

As a case in point, I revisited the planet I drove all the way around in an SRV last year and probed it. Turns out there were a good dozen or more geological sites on it, some of which I would have driven straight past. Now yes, it's possible they've only just added all these new poi's but I think it's equally possible they were there all along. So the planetary surface probe gets a big thumbs up from me 'cos I reckon we were barely scraping the surface before in terms of finding what's out there.

 

[Han Zulu]

Imo giving up, before was given to a new mechanics a fair chance to prove its qualities, is not good decision (or it can be called overreaction). And also this new exploration mechanism is not even in live game yet, so we cannot be sure if there will be, or not, changes (and they also can come later). Maybe OP (and others) should look here: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/454902-Reaction-From-An-FSS-Skeptic ...

ED was in all these years (for me) about ability to adapt on changes, exploration is now in similar situation like many other aspects of this game which is still evolving.

True. Also consider that FDev released the Beta partially for this reason, to see the reaction and to find issues they perhaps can tweak and improve. So I'm not too worried. The worst quirks probably will be improved a bit before release. Maybe not everything, but the worst things might be fixed.

 

[Cliff Dobbs]

Quite depressing skimming this thread and seeing so many voices in such strong agreement with Jackie's opinion of the new exploration stuff being a game breaker for them. Are you really not prepared to give it a try before making your decision? As someone who seems to love the intricacies of this wonderful procedurally generated galaxy that Frontier have produced for us I would have thought that you would have been the first to admit that the old "honk and voila, you've found what the current system has to offer" mechanism was a shallow placeholder of an exploration mechanic and that the richness of the galaxy deserved something a lot more "scientific" and "research" like to uncover its mysteries? (not to mention that handing your discoveries in to Universal Cartographics actually now has meaning and benefit for the wider ED community)?

Jackie - I had the pleasure of seeing Cmdr Alot present your early joint findings about the procedural generation system back at Lavecon 3(?) years ago now. It was mind blowing stuff! I wish you well and salute your involvement with this community (but also hope you might reconsider).

o7

It's odd, isn't it, that we all seemed to agree that exploration was too shallow. We all had our ideas of how to give it more depth. Yet, the changes that FDev have made seem to have divided us right down the middle.

I am on the side that rather likes the new model, but having read so much of the feedback from those who don't like it, I can completely understand why.

Jackie is a scientist. She saw a puzzle to be solved and the exploration mechanic, as it was, made it possible for her to collate a huge amount of data about how the galaxy is structured and educate us all in how to navigate what could look pretty random. I can see how the new mechanic has totally scuppered her work.

I certainly don't know how to square that circle, and I expect FDev are scratching their heads, too.

I can only hope that they do work it out.

C

 

[Han Zulu]

As a case in point, I revisited the planet I drove all the way around in an SRV last year and probed it. Turns out there were a good dozen or more geological sites on it, some of which I would have driven straight past. Now yes, it's possible they've only just added all these new poi's but I think it's equally possible they were there all along. So the planetary surface probe gets a big thumbs up from me 'cos I reckon we were barely scraping the surface before in terms of finding what's out there.

And I really liked the probes in Mass Effect, so I'm actually a huge supporter of that tech. I would've been fine if they just added that. The FSS is a little overshooting the target, I think.

 

[Kenneth McGrew]

Yeah... imbeciles, trolls, speaking for "everyone" and what else is missing to not being classified as a troll yourself? Thanks for being put in this box just for not agreeing with your emotions. Enjoy your problems - and please take your drama with you on the door out. Bye.

Who said I was leaving.. context my friend context.

 

[Scytale]

Who said I was leaving.. context my friend context.

Don't feed the trolls. Just ignore them.

 

[Shinji Ikari]

Quite depressing skimming this thread and seeing so many voices in such strong agreement with Jackie's opinion of the new exploration stuff being a game breaker for them. Are you really not prepared to give it a try before making your decision? As someone who seems to love the intricacies of this wonderful procedurally generated galaxy that Frontier have produced for us I would have thought that you would have been the first to admit that the old "honk and voila, you've found what the current system has to offer" mechanism was a shallow placeholder of an exploration mechanic and that the richness of the galaxy deserved something a lot more "scientific" and "research" like to uncover its mysteries? (not to mention that handing your discoveries in to Universal Cartographics actually now has meaning and benefit for the wider ED community)?

Jackie - I had the pleasure of seeing Cmdr Alot present your early joint findings about the procedural generation system back at Lavecon 3(?) years ago now. It was mind blowing stuff! I wish you well and salute your involvement with this community (but also hope you might reconsider).

o7

I have given it a try & it's tedious, not sure if I'll be convinced when the update goes live but I very much doubt it.

 

[Cliff Dobbs]

So what else did you mean with "Why the hell do i bother?" then? Correct me and sorry if I got you wrong. Just came from the pub and I'm a bit heated from all those negative output and yeah, from the beer too. My selectivity might have suffered...

Having re-read Ken's post, I think it is quite clear that he was referring to giving feed back and (possibly) arguing with the intractable on this forum. Also, "why do I bother" implies that the bothering is an on-going thing and not something that has come to an end.

Laptops should have alcohol sensors built in and refuse to let you log in if it detects a high level. This would solve sooooo many of today's life problems and probably dent Amazon's profits, too

C

 

[Edelgard von Rhein]

Sorry to see that you feel that way Jackie. The lure of 400 billion stars is going to be hard to ignore! I will also miss some of the old ways but I am hoping the new will keep me interested, although I will have to adapt. I'm going to give it some time but if it really isn't fun, then I'll stick to things that I do enjoy (e.g. racing). There's nothing out there that will take the place of ED for me for some time to come...
.
Regarding some people being worried about vulnerability whilst scanning in Open - you are most likely to meet hostile CMDRs in the Bubble but the new sharing of exploration data should mean that everyone has detailed surface scans of probably every system in the Bubble and for hundreds of LY around (if I understand correctly?). Firing probes is the only time you will be at risk but even then the highest-profile places are likely to get mapped (possibly in Solo or PG) within a day or two.

 

[Whiterose]

Toblerone bought out a new bar, some liked it, and some didnt. Vive la difference as we say in Yorkshire. Some will like the changes in exploration and some will not. Personally I will be sorry to see Jackie go, but for me change is inevitable. You either embrace it or you dont. Either way whatever Commanders decide it is their decision, and we do not have the right to judge. Only Geoff Boycott can do that.

 

[osser]

Sorry to see you go Jackie. Your contributions to the exploration community have been second to none.
For myself I'll give the new system everything I got. Hopefully I'll find a way to adapt and enjoy it.
I'm encouraged by Genar's new thread (link above).
Possibly with further tweaks this can work out well. For everyone.

Cheers.

 

[Han Zulu]

Sorry to see you go Jackie. Your contributions to the exploration community have been second to none.
For myself I'll give the new system everything I got. Hopefully I'll find a way to adapt and enjoy it.
I'm encouraged by Genar's new thread (link above).
Possibly with further tweaks this can work out well. For everyone.

Cheers.

I've spent a little time today trying it. Done around 10 systems maybe. Personally, I don't mind it. Sure, it takes a little longer than before to find out what's in the system, but getting the controllers setup right and then figure out what the different things do, it's not so bad. One trick is to align yourself with the orbital plane so it's easy to go a full go-around.

 

[Scytale]

... the richness of the galaxy deserved something a lot more "scientific" and "research" like to uncover its mysteries?

I appreciate the " " s . Because if moving around a dull slider in an ugly UI untill it meets a waveform-like are science and research... well just better [haha]