PvP Target lock breaker apa nerf when?

[Powderpanic]

You are making the incorrect assumption that the price and the size of the ship dictate how powerful a ship should be in a video game. But this is a simulation. Not a video game. In video games you follow a progression system that means the more you play the more powerful you are. In these video games you are progressively taking on harder and harder challenges like enemies. But this is a simulation. What you are doing in the beginning of the game is most likely what you will be doing your entire ED career. Things don't get easier over time. Instead everything you can do is available to you at the beginning of the game and you are expected to learn and get better at your chosen profession while customizing your ship to fill the role you have chosen.

Fair is not a consideration in a simulation.

What a load of waffle.

The basic issue is the badly designed combat and ship stats based around pre-engineering ships.

The Vette and Cutter should be considerably stronger, not just tankier than an FDL.

They are tankier for sure but their damage output is not on par with their cost, size and negatives in terms of speed, profile and manuverability.
Because of how hardpoints sizes are, resistance and reload speed. These ships don't even have the edge with getting more shots down range.
Unless you go with lasers but I mean, why would you? Lasers pretty much suck!

Effects on engineering only make it worse... TDLR Engineering SUCKS the big one for PVP

This game isnt a simulation, is a hotch pot of what ever ideas FDEV thinks will sell the next batch of copies to keep them in business.

Lore goes right out the window with every release, magic mechanics are put in to try and combat bad game design and the short comings of their original vision.

Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing

 

[True Phoenix]

interesting debate.

Pure PvP builds, yeah, I can see why FA off and fixed is the way to go. However (and this said gently so as to not shock people) not everyone designs pure PvP builds to play in open. Many players are out there hauling, mission running, smuggling and generally multi-tasking, these players cannot build meta / uber PvP boats. Think of it like WW2, Atlantic ocean, Wolfpack vs lone, armed merchant trader. On paper, you would fancy the Wolfpack yet and armed merchantman has various tricks to use and "area" (gimballed?) weapons. Its why I like open, I take as much pleasure escaping the murdering squad as others would do getting a kill, maybe more. Makes the game for me and the fact some share how to handle such situations shows that ED has many brighter facets than we give it credit for..

/whiteknightoff

 

[wakko151]

What a load of waffle.

The basic issue is the badly designed combat and ship stats based around pre-engineering ships.

The Vette and Cutter should be considerably stronger, not just tankier than an FDL.

They are tankier for sure but their damage output is not on par with their cost, size and negatives in terms of speed, profile and manuverability.
Because of how hardpoints sizes are, resistance and reload speed. These ships don't even have the edge with getting more shots down range.
Unless you go with lasers but I mean, why would you? Lasers pretty much suck!

Effects on engineering only make it worse... TDLR Engineering SUCKS the big one for PVP

This game isnt a simulation, is a hotch pot of what ever ideas FDEV thinks will sell the next batch of copies to keep them in business.

Lore goes right out the window with every release, magic mechanics are put in to try and combat bad game design and the short comings of their original vision.

Powderpanic
The Voice of Griefing

I actually couldn't agree more. I just wish they would fix the issues and keep to the vision they started with.

 

[Redomus]

Imo lockbreaker needs a cooldown on TLB effect from first effect activation maybe 10s (reasonable example) inbetween breaks and thus any shots with tlb effect get ignored (only the tlb effect to clarify) until the cooldown is done. I.e. not just apa's, because apa's are not specifically the problem.

Why? Because 1v1 its not too bad. 2+ v 1, okay maybe you get target locked every 10 seconds but thats enough time to do something.

Current state of pvp. FDL x 3 or 4 with TLB vs 1 ship, all spam TLB, the vs 1 ship can literally not target at all, let alone using anything fixed other than lasers and rails. You must also hope to god that they have a brightly coloured ship so you can hipfire without target lock.

Stack FDL noob shields on. Rejoice in engaging in broken pvp on fdl victory.

I'm not a pro pvper by a long stretch, but I like to try to pvp often not very successfully because many hold on to the FDL blanket, which I refuse to pilot out of principle. Its actually fairly interesting fighting either A, a large ship, or B anything that isnt an FDL with prismatics and reinforced lol shields with target lock breaking..

 

[jasonbarron]

Imo lockbreaker needs a cooldown on TLB effect from first effect activation maybe 10s (reasonable example) inbetween breaks and thus any shots with tlb effect get ignored (only the tlb effect to clarify) until the cooldown is done. I.e. not just apa's, because apa's are not specifically the problem.

Why? Because 1v1 its not too bad. 2+ v 1, okay maybe you get target locked every 10 seconds but thats enough time to do something.

Current state of pvp. FDL x 3 or 4 with TLB vs 1 ship, all spam TLB, the vs 1 ship can literally not target at all, let alone using anything fixed other than lasers and rails. You must also hope to god that they have a brightly coloured ship so you can hipfire without target lock.

Stack FDL noob shields on. Rejoice in engaging in broken pvp on fdl victory.

I'm not a pro pvper by a long stretch, but I like to try to pvp often not very successfully because many hold on to the FDL blanket, which I refuse to pilot out of principle. Its actually fairly interesting fighting either A, a large ship, or B anything that isnt an FDL with prismatics and reinforced lol shields with target lock breaking..

I don't care what they have loaded for specials; if its 3 or 4v1 it's time to hit the road. I used to stick around for that action with crimes off, but my attitude now is if someone thinks they can pull a wing gank on me then I'm happy as a clam to sick the ATR on them.

 

[Redomus]

I don't care what they have loaded for specials; if its 3 or 4v1 it's time to hit the road. I used to stick around for that action with crimes off, but my attitude now is if someone thinks they can pull a wing gank on me then I'm happy as a clam to sick the ATR on them.

I tend to do the same now - usually comes with a nice discount and a fresh coat of paint too

 

[Unknown Zombie]

I've read some folks saying the counter to TLB is to not be a gimbal-using scrublord, but how do you work that out when you're flying a Type-10 and the hardpoints are all in separate zipcodes?

I've been practicing with rails in the small hardpoints but everything else I think is just too spread out to use fixed.

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

I've read some folks saying the counter to TLB is to not be a gimbal-using scrublord, but how do you work that out when you're flying a Type-10 and the hardpoints are all in separate zipcodes?

I've been practicing with rails in the small hardpoints but everything else I think is just too spread out to use fixed.

Use rails in the smalls and bottom medium, then use gimballed low-ToT weapons in all the rest (like cannons). You only need a split second on target to deal solid damage.

 

[Unknown Zombie]

Use rails in the smalls and bottom medium, then use gimballed low-ToT weapons in all the rest (like cannons). You only need a split second on target to deal solid damage.

Ok, I guess I've made some correct decisions then, since I'm already using gimbal cannons in the four large slots.

 

[Threeofseven]

If they don't add a cooldown for TLB, they need to remove the cool down for dispersal field. Personally Ive only had trouble with TLB in big ships when fighting multiple players, the rest of the time it's not an issue as I just press the retarget button.

 

[Veloceraptor]

If they don't add a cooldown for TLB, they need to remove the cool down for dispersal field. Personally Ive only had trouble with TLB in big ships when fighting multiple players, the rest of the time it's not an issue as I just press the retarget button.

Retarget button is funny.... if someone is spamming plasmas on you every second, you get the next hit direct after relogging. In such a fight, it's like, if you have no weapons. believe me. It's like you send someone in a cache fight - one with a pistol, the other one with nothing. A more unfair fight situation could not be made by frontier. I'm with the TO. The TLB is a joke and makes the big ships useless against any other ship smaller than the big three. It should be removed from the game.

 

[Tiili]

Imo it could use some diminishing returns just so that the game is a bit more interesting for TLB builds as well, as they would need to break away from the fight every once in a while and could be targeted during that time for a few seconds, so skipping all other utilities than shield boosters would not be such a great idea.

Another option would be to add a sensor experimental that doesn't get interrupted, but we all know that it would become the next meta so I wouldn't really go down this route

 

[PeLucheuh]

Imo it could use some diminishing returns just so that the game is a bit more interesting for TLB builds as well, as they would need to break away from the fight every once in a while and could be targeted during that time for a few seconds, so skipping all other utilities than shield boosters would not be such a great idea.

Another option would be to add a sensor experimental that doesn't get interrupted, but we all know that it would become the next meta so I wouldn't really go down this route

The experimental sensor is an interesting idea. It could immune you to TLB at the expense of being able to use seekers/packhound (no locking possibility).

 

[Lateralus]

The experimental sensor is an interesting idea. It could immune you to TLB at the expense of being able to use seekers/packhound (no locking possibility).

Having it as an experimental on the shield would be a better idea.. as it would be in competition with other experimentals such as fast charge and high cap.

 

[PeLucheuh]

Having it as an experimental on the shield would be a better idea.. as it would be in competition with other experimentals such as fast charge and high cap.

Idk, not everyone runs a shield. And if you put it on shield, OP skill booster stacked loadout will be able to freely spam seekers/packhound (TLB is a direct counter to that).

 

[Jotaro]

You are making the incorrect assumption that the price and the size of the ship dictate how powerful a ship should be in a video game. But this is a simulation. Not a video game. In video games you follow a progression system that means the more you play the more powerful you are. In these video games you are progressively taking on harder and harder challenges like enemies. But this is a simulation. What you are doing in the beginning of the game is most likely what you will be doing your entire ED career. Things don't get easier over time. Instead everything you can do is available to you at the beginning of the game and you are expected to learn and get better at your chosen profession while customizing your ship to fill the role you have chosen.

Fair is not a consideration in a simulation.

That sounded completely stupid to me. First off, it's a simulation yes, but it's still a video game. Assetto Corsa is a racing simulator but it's still a video game. It's a game you play on a computer. Second off, the more expensive ships should be better than the cheaper ones. If i go buy a buy a Lamborghini Aventador, i obviously expect it to perform better than a low class sports car like a Toyota gt86, which it also does. So why does a combat ship like a corvette or a cutter cost 4 times the price of a fdl, yet the fdl is just as good, if not better than the more expensive ships? What am i paying the premium price for? And of course, the game shouldn't be dominated solely by the big ships, but this current meta makes big ships useless.

 

[Jaylem]

This is getting to the point where anything that affects shields or gimbals is hammered into the floor.

You mean, it's getting to the point that if anything does anything it gets hammered into the floor.

"oh no, my missions pay too much", "oh no, skill based weapons hurt too much", "oh no, my Ship can travel faster than the speed of light". "please nerf them all sir FDev so I the minority can have 'my' fun playing experience 'my' way!"

So where exactly to we draw the line on these nerf complaints? there is nothing wrong with TLB or APA's. the problem lies within the OP's post...he is using A BIG SHIP!! of course it's going to get pummelled by APA's

besides, Force shell and Drag munitions are WAAAY more fun! and by 'fun' I mean 'it will really ruin your day'

It's kinda like the whole scenario when the cyclops was first introduced. a few people solo it and suddenly the forums are flooded with "It's too easy, please buff", when it goes the other way and a stronger type is introduced it's "<whine> This content supports engineer bias and big ships, please nerf". I am almost willing to bet more than half of those posters never even saw one... let alone fought one.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Dual rapid fire TLB APAs on a Vulture, aye that is indeed funny and incredibly powerful, eve for fixed, non hitscan weaponary.

Changing TLB to last atleast 3 seconds and have a cooldown of 6 (3 seconds unable to target anything and 3 second immunity) should do it. Though there are other things like jesus beams and seekers that need attention first.

 

[AP Birdman]

Edit: nevermind

 

[Abigor]

That sounded completely stupid to me. First off, it's a simulation yes, but it's still a video game. Assetto Corsa is a racing simulator but it's still a video game. It's a game you play on a computer. Second off, the more expensive ships should be better than the cheaper ones. If i go buy a buy a Lamborghini Aventador, i obviously expect it to perform better than a low class sports car like a Toyota gt86, which it also does. So why does a combat ship like a corvette or a cutter cost 4 times the price of a fdl, yet the fdl is just as good, if not better than the more expensive ships? What am i paying the premium price for? And of course, the game shouldn't be dominated solely by the big ships, but this current meta makes big ships useless.

+ 1 on this post......i couldn't say it better myself