Telepresence Crewmembers = Rescue missions are Out

[Ziljan]

One of the things I was looking forward to was having the ability to rescue people that had become stranded on a planet in their SRV. Or who were left on a surface with a non-functioning ship.

But since the crew isn't really there, and we have no way to physically join a ship, does this mean that rescue missions are not going to be possible?

 

[babelfisch]

Not really, it would still be possible. Just not in in 2.3.

 

[Cosmo]

One of the things I was looking forward to was having the ability to rescue people that had become stranded on a planet in their SRV. Or who were left on a surface with a non-functioning ship.

But since the crew isn't really there, and we have no way to physically join a ship, does this mean that rescue missions are not going to be possible?

If it's the original ship, then they would need to be rescued.

What's missing is the ability to pick up real-versions of people who are inside their SRV and add them to your crew. The only way to join other ships will be via telepresence until we get elite feet.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

I think people are putting the cart before the horse a little, and that telepresence is just the first stage of multicrew. Once we get full on spacelegs there should hopefully be a lot more dynamic gameplay options, which could include rescue missions and all types of other fun things.

 

[Barking_Mad]

I think people are putting the cart before the horse a little, and that telepresence is just the first stage of multicrew. Once we get full on spacelegs there should hopefully be a lot more dynamic gameplay options, which could include rescue missions and all types of other fun things.

Agreed. As I just said in this thread I started, there's a whole host of unanswered questions about what happens when we walk about re: crew.

 

[tengri]

Unfortunately there are a lot things in ED that remain in this "first stage" for ever... quick and at just the bare-minimum level releasing something and then moving on to the next big shiny thing. And hardly never coming back to continue polishing stuff.

 

[Ziljan]

If it's the original ship, then they would need to be rescued.

What's missing is the ability to pick up real-versions of people who are inside their SRV and add them to your crew. The only way to join other ships will be via telepresence.

Right, one thing I wonder though, are there any real people in the game? Or is it just telepresence skimmers and holographic VR avatar bodies? If we can send people over infinite range, then why not exploration data? Or bonds, or bounty vouchers? Are there any real people on these ship? If so, why?

- - - Updated - - -

I think people are putting the cart before the horse a little, and that telepresence is just the first stage of multicrew. Once we get full on spacelegs there should hopefully be a lot more dynamic gameplay options, which could include rescue missions and all types of other fun things.

One question not answered yet. If we have the tech for telepresence, then why does everyone risk flying there in person? The lore explanation for this is completely absent, as is the explanation for why exploration data has range limits, but combat data can travel an infinite number of LYs.

It seems to me that infinite range telepresence kills any justification of space legs completely. I guess that's the heart of my question. Nothing makes sense anymore, and Elite has officially become a 4 beer goggle game.

Also, from a pure gameplay perspective, being in first person with legs is a downgrade from the ease of use that telepresence affords, which means that inhabiting "space legs" or walking/floating around will be even harder to make compelling. In fact will be a hinderance to efficiency. So Frontier are shooting themselves in the virtual foot. Which makes me think space legs are really a LONG way away, since frontier are clearly ignoring this corner they are painting themselves into.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Unfortunately there are a lot things in ED that remain in this "first stage" for ever... quick and at just the bare-minimum level releasing something and then moving on to the next big shiny thing. And hardly never coming back to continue polishing stuff.

The game is never going to match up to everyone's hopes dreams. People would do well to accept it because once that happens, playing it and following it becomes more fun and less disappointing everytime your list of wants doesn't make the list.

However - the base game was released just 24 months ago and if you really think everything is 'bare-minimum' then go back and take a look at the initial release and then look at the current one. To say it's not improved and stuff hasn't been fleshed out is not correct. Are many things still needing work? Of course they are - but this isn't a first person shooter releasing extra maps, it's not a car game releasing more tracks. The choice of a space game means that there's a huge scope of stuff to include and a lot of things to consider in terms of how they relate to other parts of the game and link together. Frankly as a layman following this Im in awe of how well this is being done. I dont agree with some of it, I dont even like some of it - but the game is really enjoyable for me personally.

That said Im going to tweak Spaceloach's ears if we dont get more exploration stuff SOOOOOON! lol

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Right, one thing I wonder though, are there any real people in the game? Or is it just telepresence skimmers and holographic VR avatar bodies? If we can send people over infinite range, then why not exploration data? Or bonds, or bounty vouchers? Are there any real people on these ship? If so, why?

I've always wondered why in 34th century people actually need to do anything at all. Sure, the Elite lore talks about a ban on AI, but as Michael Brookes has pointed out before, that is really a ban on Artificial Life / Artificial Consciousnes. In that context then the AI we use today is better described as Virtual Intelligence, as we use that in today's technology to automate all manner of tasks, right up to and including the automated flying of vehicles and other complex tasks.

It's not much of a stretch to think that in 1400 years VI would have extended to the ability to do pretty much any human task. Which really begs the questions, why do we even need pilots at all? Why isn't the entire galaxy automated?

This is something people like Elon Musk are already envisioning for our present age. So why is it not there for the far future?

Firstly of course, because it would mean there would be no game - and the Elite universe wouldn't require us to do anything. Secondly, because with the wave of a hand, and the penning of some lore, it can all be explained away.

In the end, if we look too closely it all starts to fall apart. Telepresense isn't the only loose thread in the tapestry used to explain away game concessions. Personally, I feel these concessions are a lot more acceptable in a game, than they are in a book or movie.

Bottom line, a lot of the reasons I see people having issue with Telepresense, isn't really a gameplay one - but an immersion one. So perhaps Frontier need better technology lore to explain gameplay.

I also feel we have to make a few concessions for telepresense for now, and wait until we have the full release of spacelegs to understand how telepresense fits into the whole multicrew equation when compared to physically boarding the ship. I cannot imaging that Frontier haven't thought this through...

 

[DoctorDanny]

I think people are putting the cart before the horse a little, and that telepresence is just the first stage of multicrew. Once we get full on spacelegs there should hopefully be a lot more dynamic gameplay options, which could include rescue missions and all types of other fun things.

Added emphasis.

Powerplay felt like the first steps of something. Wings was never developed further.
I have great fears that this telepresence thing is here to stay. This is it.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Added emphasis.

Powerplay felt like the first steps of something. Wings was never developed further.
I have great fears that this telepresence thing is here to stay. This is it.

I think telepresense certainly will stay. I also suspect players will eventually have a choice of how they want to board a ship.

1) Physically board the ship for a full on experience.
2) Telepresense to a ship for the limited experience.

Anything else really doesn't make any sense. It's a shame Frontier don't reveal their long term plans.

 

[Ziljan]

I've always wondered why in 34th century people actually need to do anything at all. Sure, the Elite lore talks about a ban on AI, but as Michael Brookes has pointed out before, that is really a ban on Artificial Life / Artificial Consciousnes. In that context then the AI we use today is better described as Virtual Intelligence, as we use that in today's technology to automate all manner of tasks, right up to and including the automated flying of vehicles and other complex tasks.

It's not much of a stretch to think that in 1400 years VI would have extended to the ability to do pretty much any human task. Which really begs the questions, why do we even need pilots at all? Why isn't the entire galaxy automated?

This is something people like Elon Musk are already envisioning for our present age. So why is it not there for the far future?

Firstly of course, because it would mean there would be no game - and the Elite universe wouldn't require us to do anything. Secondly, because with the wave of a hand, and the penning of some lore, it can all be explained away.

In the end, if we look too closely it all starts to fall apart. Telepresense isn't the only loose thread in the tapestry used to explain away game concessions. Personally, I feel these concessions are a lot more acceptable in a game, than they are in a book or movie.

Bottom line, a lot of the reasons I see people having issue with Telepresense, isn't really a gameplay one - but an immersion one. So perhaps Frontier need better technology lore to explain gameplay.

I also feel we have to make a few concessions for telepresense for now, and wait until we have the full release of spacelegs to understand how telepresense fits into the whole multicrew equation when compared to physically boarding the ship. I cannot imaging that Frontier haven't thought this through...

Yes clearly it's a game, but even from a pure gameplay perspective telepresence may end up making the simple act of getting into and out of your chair or ship into a relatively huge chore as a flesh and blood presence. Watching the clips of SC, they seem dedicated to the player being the pilot. However, Frontier starting with the player being the ship is turning out to really shape the future possibilities of walking gameplay. They started off with the player seeing only through the cockpit, and now we have telepresence and a 3rd person 360 deg turret view. What's next? And how will frontier bridge the gap to legs without emphasizing and adding to the already long travel times and repetitive mundane tasks.

I see this a hint of possible failure of vision. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that space legs are going to forced to be a tacked on feature that feels as disjointed to the rest of the game as exploration data, CQC, or powerplay.

 

[U.S.S Banterprise]

I think the issue with "Actual presence" over telepresence is getting back to your own ship, So I see why FD have done it.

If you fall out with your friend(it happens!) while in multicrew what do you do if they refuse to take you back to your station? Same idea if you're stranded in an SRV. You can get rescued yes, but then you have to wait for aaaages for your Captain to actually take you home.

Though the immersion aspect is important at this time telepresence makes much more sense.

I also like the idea of having the choices Obsidian Ant mentioned. ^

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Yes clearly it's a game, but even from a pure gameplay perspective telepresence is making the simple act of getting into and out of your chair or ship into a relatively huge chore. Watching the clips of SC, they seem dedicated to the player being the pilot. However, Frontier starting with the player being the ship is turning out to really shape the future possibilities of walking gameplay. They started off with the player seeing only through the cockpit, and now we have telepresence and a 3rd person 360 deg turret view. What's next? And how will frontier bridge the gap to legs without emphasizing and adding to the already long travel times and repetitive mundane tasks.

I see this a hint of possible failure of vision. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems that space legs are going to forced to be a tacked on feature that feels as disjointed to the rest of the game as exploration data, CQC, or powerplay.

One of the largest hurdles the game seems to face, both in terms of repetitive gameplay, the travel times and all other mundane tasks seems to be due to the size of the Elite galaxy itself. Based on the type of game mechanics and gameplay we get, it always seems to me that Frontier find the galaxy to be a challenge to integrate gameplay into. This is strange to me, because the galaxy is Elite's greatest asset.

I'm not sure what the future of the game will bring, but I totally agree that more and more Elite feels like a set of disjointed mini-games. I don't feel this is a problem with telepresense (which I feel is kinda essential at this point), but, as you point out, it's more of a problem with how Frontier have approached the game.

 

[Erimus Kamzel]

I think telepresense certainly will stay. I also suspect players will eventually have a choice of how they want to board a ship.

1) Physically board the ship for a full on experience.
2) Telepresense to a ship for the limited experience.

Anything else really doesn't make any sense. It's a shame Frontier don't reveal their long term plans.

#1 probably won't last long if there isn't an incentive. Maybe the first two or three times, then I suspect most people will take the short cut. That would be a lot of wasted dev time for something with such a short shelf life.

Telepresense is a great short term solution, but I can't help feeling it'll make what could be some awesome future features worthless unless those features (i.e. walking/boarding etc) have some tangible benefit than just aesthetically looking good.

And I doubt telepresense will vanish when walking is invented.


If you remember one of the ideas we spoke about a while back was only being allowed to telepresense into a friends NCP crewmate, so your character stays in limbo on its own ship, but you experience the multiplayer aspects through the eyes of an NPC you now control. All monetary gains, rep gains, and character advancement is mute. If you wanted to join another crew with your own character and thus gain all the monetary/rep rewards that come during your gameplay session, that would require physically joining a friends ship with your own character via his spacelegs. That could be a solution.... and could also leave the door open for rescue missions.

 

[Ziljan]

I think telepresense certainly will stay. I also suspect players will eventually have a choice of how they want to board a ship.

1) Physically board the ship for a full on experience.
2) Telepresense to a ship for the limited experience.

Anything else really doesn't make any sense. It's a shame Frontier don't reveal their long term plans.

Except that the way they've designed it, guests currently have access to MORE options than the pilot. So they'd have to add new gameplay features that were only open to real pilots, or change the interfaces and rules so that they had as many telepresence options as virtual pilots on their own ships.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Except that the way they've designed it, guests currently have access to MORE options than the pilot. So they'd have to add new gameplay features that were only open to real pilots, or change the interfaces and rules so that they had as many telepresence options as virtual pilots on their own ships.

Well physically walking around on the friends ship, and all destinations they land at (including FPS if that comes) could be a pretty big incentive for physically boarding a ship, if telepresent players remain firmly rooted to their seat.

 

[Javert]

Did I miss something? In reading the Dev update post yesterday, the OP doesn't seem to mention teleprecencse at all - it just talks about you instantly "logging out and logging in" to the new ship.

Indeed, Teleprecence explanation doesn't make any sense if they are addding an Avatar creation to the game (in which presumably your body will be the same one as in your own ship).

More like, they are just admitting straight up that this is for game play reasons and you just have to live with it. It's kind of like CQC where you are effectively logging into a different game.

I'm not commenting on whether I like this or not yet - just more asking wherre FD confirmed it was a TP mechanism?

 

[PavelKCZ]

I don't think that there will be some form of "Actual presence" in any forseeable future.
The whole ED concept is based on the fact that basically player and his ship is one object which cannot be separated. The "actual presence" requires the separation of player and ship and this will have milions of consequences which can not be solved easily.

For exaple, let's suppose that three players are actually present in one ship and this ship belongs to player A. Players B and C have their ships on some station(s) somewhere. Suddenly, somewhere in space, player A will be disconnected from Internet or his computer fail (or he will need to go to do homeworks etc.) What to do with players B and C ? They will be magically transported to their ships ? Or they will stay in the ship without any possibility to fly it ? Or they will be able to fly it ? Is so, what to do if they will crash and destroy ship (which belongs to player A which is currently not in game) ? Etc. etc. etc.

 

[Doc_Holiday]

I think the issue with "Actual presence" over telepresence is getting back to your own ship, So I see why FD have done it.

If you fall out with your friend(it happens!) while in multicrew what do you do if they refuse to take you back to your station? Same idea if you're stranded in an SRV. You can get rescued yes, but then you have to wait for aaaages for your Captain to actually take you home.

Though the immersion aspect is important at this time telepresence makes much more sense.

I also like the idea of having the choices Obsidian Ant mentioned. ^

I see a gameplay opportunity here. Allow players that become trapped on a ship to eject in an escape pod. At this point they have the option to wait for a rescue from another player or npc, or give the option to "teleport" (hand wave quick rescue) back to the last station before joining that crew.
That way we can have rescue missions for players and they can also implement npc rescue missions to the mission board to give those occupied escape pods found all over the place, an actual use.
The helmsman, if he ejects, then the ship is lost, resulting in a rebuy upon returning to the system to avoid any exploiting this system.