This looks great, but it also looks like you need a graphics card for each frame..
TEMPORAL ANTI-ALIASING like this would be awesome in Elite Dangerous.
- Thread starter Kapow
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Will do! Tomorrow....
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So..... 60 fps means 60 graphics cards? xD TAA just compares each frame and applies a filter after the frames are analysed.
Temporal Anti-aliasing is especially good at reducing crawling lines and textures from motion, i.e. temporal aliasing. There is a video linked on the previous page that shows it better than any pics can do.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfszgXjj9ew
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Top pic is without TAA and with barrel distortion.
No ReShade effects were enabled in any of the pics.
See the difference?
Wow. That looks awesome. I sure hope developers take advantage of that. Now.
It looks way more impressive in motion. It's a massive improvement to an otherwise very aliased game.
Did anybody manage to get in touch with the Mod developer ? I wonder if it would be possible to have a TAA mod like that for ED especially if it worked with Vive/Oculus it could mean day and light for Vive owners who are suffering from AA in the game.
Yes, please!
TAA would be a godsend for ED, please make it happen!
I also hope that they get added as an option in Elite Dangouers. TAA is great for certain engines, and it isn't especially costly either (can be used without monster GPU).
If they implement it, I hope they add a adjustable sharpening filter too. I don't normally like sharpening (I turned it completely off in Witcher 3 for example), but TAA does soften the image a lot. A very slight sharpening can therefore balance things up, without adding to much negatives.
The issue is that the mod is based on the injector hack, which can be problematic in online games. In competetive games you can get banned permanently. I only use these type of mods in singleplayer games. That said, I think some people are already using graphical injector hacks in Elite Dangerous.
Injectors and hacks are different things.
Frontier have said they are ok with injectors. A user here even made a mod that edit the space streaks dust shader and removing the effect, which FD said was ok to do. That's more of a hack though.
Luckily, FD aren't Ubicrap.
I just tried the TAA mod for Alien and holy crap it made it look wonderful!! I'm gonna try get in touch with the author cuz we have to have this in ED!
Have you managed to get in touch with the modder? I would be very interested to see if it is possible as I've slowly given up on FD giving us modern AA solution and if injectors are allowed then this would be a god send
I've been in the game for around a month and I became instantly addicted. FD have already delivered a solid amazing game. I'm not sure how long has been the AA like it is at the moment as I've joined at 1.3, but my experience has been rather disappointing with a lot of jaggedness and even more jitters and flickers which are really annoying especially with VR. That is a big pity as the game is amazing in pretty much all other aspects and even though it needs more work I can see that the work is taking place and horizons look awesome, but the graphics are simply low endish at the moment and not next gen in pretty much any way, which is disappointing considering how good is the game itself and even more concerning from the fact that I'm not seeing improvements between the versions, but from what it seems maybe even further downgrades. I went into the settings xml and adjusted few things, but there is very little one can really improve excluding the ability to make few things 4k. For the launch of the commercial VR sets I was planning to upgrade the Graphics card to GTX 980, but at the moment I'm missing any reason to do so as regardless how high I push the graphics with the current settings option the improvements are negligible at best or simply not there at all. AA on or off makes no difference. Super Sampling helps a bit, but the pops are still there (in much lower quantity)...
And here we go it turns into a complaining session which is not the intent. The game is great and I love it, but the graphics in my opinion need urgent love (in my eyes it is bit subpar and I'm pretty sure that Cobra from what I read about it should do better) or allow modders to have a go at it. If we could mod the graphics like it can be done in some other games (yes skyrim comes to mind) then sky (literally) is the limit
Give it time... a month isn't that long.... you'll start to see simple things they could have done much better
We've had aliasing since release... They have talked about temporal anti aliasing but it'll take a long time to code it.
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Have you managed to get in touch with the modder? I would be very interested to see if it is possible as I've slowly given up on FD giving us modern AA solution and if injectors are allowed then this would be a god send
Yes, but no response yet. Don't get your hopes up though.
Any progress about FD potentially using this?
No, it's not really been raised recently. I think the last comments were from Ben Parry, before he left for the dark side.;-)
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TXAA looks like a no-brainer to me, in terms of bang for buck, for those with Nvidia 1070 / 1080 cards and above.
+1 my vote for Frontier implementing this ASAP. PLEASE PLEAS PLEASE!
I have a 9080ti, and I can run the game in 4k at about 50fps, which is ok. As its 4K aliasing is not such an issue, as pixels are smaller. However, it still IS an issue, and pixel crawl really does hinder the quality of the graphics. Id rather run at 2560x1440 with TXAA, even if this means upgrading to a 1080.
I REALLY WANT ED TO NOT HAVE SUCH MAJOR AILISING ISSUES....
ED suffers in that it presents high geometrically complex objects, at distance. The strut work on stations is a good example of this, many small polygons in close proximity to each other.
For those interested in how AA works (and who ISNT! .... jk) then here is a great explanation I got from Steve Blackmon, the lead code on the Brazll rendering engine (3dsmax). This was taken from signal processing theory (radio) apparently, where digital samples are taken of analogue radio signals.
Think of pixels as being a grill. And when you render a pixel, your render engine fires one view ray through the dead center of that grill, and hits an infinitely small point of something. At that point it samples its lighting, reflection, luminosity, transparency etc, and then uses the resulting colour for that pixel.
But imagine that if you looked through that grill, that that pixel shows a white house, with black windows, and a terra cotta roof. Your single sample could hit the white walls, or black windows or red roof. Lets say in our first sample, its a window, so black.
Lets imagine you shift your view a tiny amount within that grid, whilst keeping your head stable, and then look through that pixel grid again. This time, its the wall, so you get a near white pixel.
This is aliasing. Extreme differences in values, between samples.
We can mitigate this issue, by firing multiple pseudo random (appears random, but is in fact 100% the same frame to frame) jittered view rays through that grid. Lets say we do 4 views, rather than one. We get white, black, white, red. We average these colours, giving us a muddy pink grey for the pixel.
You can say two things about this pixel now.
1. It appears more "blurry"
2. It has less aliasing, as it better represents the view through that pixel grid.
This is spacial anti-aliasing. It REALLY helps with high frequency geometric detail change.
We can make it better, by using more samples PER pixel, say 6,8,12,16 or whatever. But the law of diminishing returns comes into play here. As you use more samples, you get closer to a true average for the entire pixel. But EACH sample used, slows down the rendering engine. So there is usually a ceiling number of samples that its not economic to go above.
Spacial anti-aliasing is not required for high frequency texture change (imagine the building were just a painted texture, like on a theatre set). As textures are filtered anyway, and this reduces aliasing WITHIN a single texture. So bear this in mind, textures are filtered, so Aliasing is not much of an issue WITHIN a texture, its only with geo.
Now, lets imagine we go back to one view sample again. And this time, from frame to frame we move our viewpoint slightly. Lets say we maybe move our head a small amount, side to side, and rotate it a tiny amount as well. Both movements can be tiny.
Now we will see temporal aliasing. Here the pixel sample changes view a tiny amount per frame, because of OUR movement. And again one frame will show white walls, the next black windows, then roof, walls, etc etc.
This is Temporal aliasing. In VFX I used to call it pixel crawl. Where a camera moves VERY slowly, geometric edges aliasing can look really bad...
This can be even worse, when the intensity of a pixel is used in a bloom buffer to produce visible glow effects on very bright pixels. This will lead to very random and flickery looking sparkles. :/
So, TXAA is using pixel samples from other frames to also produce a better average for that pixel.
But TXAA is also doing Spacial AA. Otherwise, when you have zero view motion, you'd have zero AA.
So I can imagine TXAA has quite a big performance hit. But I think it would have a massive impact on the visual quality of ED. And yes, it will mean things far away appear more blurred. But they will also be visually stable.
We've had this in Movie AA (Pixar RenderMan, Arnold, MentalRay, VRay etc) for a long time, where non-real-time frame budgets (hours per frame) allowed for MUCH higher quality AA.
Actually, to show how far we have come. I remember News Night's (UK 11pm news prog) intro animation from about 10 years back. It was rendered in something like Mental Ray, and it had TERRIBLE temporal aliasing.
+1 my vote for Frontier implementing this ASAP. PLEASE PLEAS PLEASE!
I have a 9080ti, and I can run the game in 4k at about 50fps, which is ok. As its 4K aliasing is not such an issue, as pixels are smaller. However, it still IS an issue, and pixel crawl really does hinder the quality of the graphics. Id rather run at 2560x1440 with TXAA, even if this means upgrading to a 1080.
I REALLY WANT ED TO NOT HAVE SUCH MAJOR AILISING ISSUES....
ED suffers in that it presents high geometrically complex objects, at distance. The strut work on stations is a good example of this, many small polygons in close proximity to each other.
For those interested in how AA works (and who ISNT! .... jk) then here is a great explanation I got from Steve Blackmon, the lead code on the Brazll rendering engine (3dsmax). This was taken from signal processing theory (radio) apparently, where digital samples are taken of analogue radio signals.
Think of pixels as being a grill. And when you render a pixel, your render engine fires one view ray through the dead center of that grill, and hits an infinitely small point of something. At that point it samples its lighting, reflection, luminosity, transparency etc, and then uses the resulting colour for that pixel.
But imagine that if you looked through that grill, that that pixel shows a white house, with black windows, and a terra cotta roof. Your single sample could hit the white walls, or black windows or red roof. Lets say in our first sample, its a window, so black.
Lets imagine you shift your view a tiny amount within that grid, whilst keeping your head stable, and then look through that pixel grid again. This time, its the wall, so you get a near white pixel.
This is aliasing. Extreme differences in values, between samples.
We can mitigate this issue, by firing multiple pseudo random (appears random, but is in fact 100% the same frame to frame) jittered view rays through that grid. Lets say we do 4 views, rather than one. We get white, black, white, red. We average these colours, giving us a muddy pink grey for the pixel.
You can say two things about this pixel now.
1. It appears more "blurry"
2. It has less aliasing, as it better represents the view through that pixel grid.
This is spacial anti-aliasing. It REALLY helps with high frequency geometric detail change.
We can make it better, by using more samples PER pixel, say 6,8,12,16 or whatever. But the law of diminishing returns comes into play here. As you use more samples, you get closer to a true average for the entire pixel. But EACH sample used, slows down the rendering engine. So there is usually a ceiling number of samples that its not economic to go above.
Spacial anti-aliasing is not required for high frequency texture change (imagine the building were just a painted texture, like on a theatre set). As textures are filtered anyway, and this reduces aliasing WITHIN a single texture. So bear this in mind, textures are filtered, so Aliasing is not much of an issue WITHIN a texture, its only with geo.
Now, lets imagine we go back to one view sample again. And this time, from frame to frame we move our viewpoint slightly. Lets say we maybe move our head a small amount, side to side, and rotate it a tiny amount as well. Both movements can be tiny.
Now we will see temporal aliasing. Here the pixel sample changes view a tiny amount per frame, because of OUR movement. And again one frame will show white walls, the next black windows, then roof, walls, etc etc.
This is Temporal aliasing. In VFX I used to call it pixel crawl. Where a camera moves VERY slowly, geometric edges aliasing can look really bad...
This can be even worse, when the intensity of a pixel is used in a bloom buffer to produce visible glow effects on very bright pixels. This will lead to very random and flickery looking sparkles. :/
So, TXAA is using pixel samples from other frames to also produce a better average for that pixel.
But TXAA is also doing Spacial AA. Otherwise, when you have zero view motion, you'd have zero AA.
So I can imagine TXAA has quite a big performance hit. But I think it would have a massive impact on the visual quality of ED. And yes, it will mean things far away appear more blurred. But they will also be visually stable.
We've had this in Movie AA (Pixar RenderMan, Arnold, MentalRay, VRay etc) for a long time, where non-real-time frame budgets (hours per frame) allowed for MUCH higher quality AA.
Actually, to show how far we have come. I remember News Night's (UK 11pm news prog) intro animation from about 10 years back. It was rendered in something like Mental Ray, and it had TERRIBLE temporal aliasing.
I'm not quite sure how TXAA differs from Doom's TSSAA. I thought TXAA was pretty performance heavy or am I getting mixed up?
Doom's version is around 1-2 frames of performance, similar to fxaa/smaa. Except it looks awesome, if a little soft, as you point out.
Edit:
TXAA combines actual super sampling with a temporal element, so you're still paying a SS performance cost, just not as much for a given quality.
TSSAA constructs an image 8x bigger than your res from data in the previous frames and scales that down, so the performance cost is much cheaper than actually rendering the current frame at 8x your native res.
From what I can gather anyway. I may be speaking nonsense.
Doom's version is around 1-2 frames of performance, similar to fxaa/smaa. Except it looks awesome, if a little soft, as you point out.
Edit:
TXAA combines actual super sampling with a temporal element, so you're still paying a SS performance cost, just not as much for a given quality.
TSSAA constructs an image 8x bigger than your res from data in the previous frames and scales that down, so the performance cost is much cheaper than actually rendering the current frame at 8x your native res.
From what I can gather anyway. I may be speaking nonsense.
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