Tested Vive vs Oculus Rift in ED

drkaii

drkaii
Hi

I know there have been a few threads like this, thought I'd make my own. I was in the USA and took advantage of the price of the dollar to get a Vive at $600 instead of £600. I've just tested it with Elite and basically I'd say that personally, the Oculus Rift is much better for ED than the Vive. Note in all this I am specifically talking about in Elite, not in general VR gaming.

The only thing the Vive has over the OR is that its screens are quite a bit brighter and that makes things look a lot lovelier.

However the game runs a lot smoother on the Rift, and I personally think that is (a lot) more important. Admittedly, I like Asychronos Space Warp (OR) and Async Reprojection (Vive) so I have them on. With the OR, I get a constant 90fps, either live or emulated by ASW, but with the exact same settings on the Vive, I get a fair amount of stuttering, in fact even on lower settings I get some stuttering.

I haven't and won't be testing without ASW/AR unless specifically asked, and I suspect the Vive will be worse optimised there as well. I just don't like seeing anything less than 90fps, nor having to turn the settings right down to achieve it "naturally".

I also notice the screen door effect a lot more on the Vive but that's probably just because it is brighter.

Lastly, the fresnal lense rings of the vive are a LOT more pronounced than those of the OR (I assume again this is in part thanks to the added brightness of the screens). Finding the sweet spot of clarity is also hard, and blurriness around the edges of vision is worse on the Vive.

Overall those things make the Vive a lot more annoying to play with than the Rift in Elite. Shame though, because I really do love the extra brightness of the screens!

I will edit this post if I find any other differences.

Dr. Kaii
 

TorTorden_VR

T
Basically on par with my findings, albeit they are fairly old atm.
And why I have left the vive in a box.

Sad to hear they aren't quite up to par on performance yet either, since I got a Pimax 8k coming..
Gonna need that streamlining...

As for SDE, I believe the Vive has noticeably more vertical FOV, but the same resolution as the CV1, and thus the pixels get stretched a bit more.
And the really tiny sweetspot in the lenses doesn't help a lot either.
 
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loribee

loribee
TorTorden said:
Basically on par with my findings, albeit they are fairly old atm.
And why I have left the vive in a box.

Sad to hear they aren't quite up to par on performance yet either, since I got a Pimax 8k coming..
Gonna need that streamlining...

As for SDE, I believe the Vive has noticeably more vertical FOV, but the same resolution as the CV1, and thus the pixels get stretched a bit more.
And the really tiny sweetspot in the lenses doesn't help a lot either.
Click to expand...

I'm actually loving my Pimax 4k/B1 with Elite. Text is absolutely razor sharp, there are no god rays or screen door effect with this and Pimax appear to have fixed all of the drifting issues that plagued earlier versions of Piplay.

The only downside for folks might be the maximum refresh rate of these heasets is 66Hz, which personally does not bother me at all and I've probably logged close to 200 hours on the game in VR now.

Note - this is the B1/BE version of the 4k Pimax, it's lower resolution than the 4k, but it's using OLED screens.
 
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[VR] Frank_G

[VR] Frank_G
Yes, that matches my experience as well, except for me the displays of the Rift deliver a better color saturation and a much better infinite view, when looking into sky and space scenes. The Vive colors are more washed out and infinity always seems to end after a few hundred meters. Maybe because the screens are too bright? But that might just be a personal thing.

I had already bought the Rift, when i got the opportunity to test the Vive. With Elite and Project Cars, the Rift is definitely the better choice, but i played a few roomscale titles like Serious Sam and found the experience on the Vive a bit better.
When a new gen of headsets is announced, i will still go for the one, that is best for seated experience though, as i like to play sim games more frequently than others.
 

Sphinx2k

Sphinx2k
drkaii said:
I know there have been a few threads like this, thought I'd make my own. I was in the USA and took advantage of the price of the dollar to get a Vive at $600 instead of £600. I've just tested it with Elite and basically I'd say that personally, the Oculus Rift is much better for ED than the Vive. Note in all this I am specifically talking about in Elite, not in general VR gaming.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting this, as you always wonder what the other is like..
 
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wstephenson

wstephenson
Well, you're all making me feel validated in selling my 18 month old Vive on eBay last week and waiting for the next generation. Although I am a bit tempted to pick up a cheap Rift now as a HMD purely for ED...
 

TorTorden_VR

T
Frank_G said:
Yes, that matches my experience as well, except for me the displays of the Rift deliver a better color saturation and a much better infinite view, when looking into sky and space scenes. The Vive colors are more washed out and infinity always seems to end after a few hundred meters. Maybe because the screens are too bright? But that might just be a personal thing.

I had already bought the Rift, when i got the opportunity to test the Vive. With Elite and Project Cars, the Rift is definitely the better choice, but i played a few roomscale titles like Serious Sam and found the experience on the Vive a bit better.
When a new gen of headsets is announced, i will still go for the one, that is best for seated experience though, as i like to play sim games more frequently than others.
Click to expand...

It's a common issue with OLED uniformity and a problem for both Oculus and HTC so two hmd's from each manufacturer could seem vastly different.
They do try to match screens in manufacturing naturally but I can tell it's far from perfect between left and right eyes on either.

Oculus are trying to fight panel defects with SPUD, a software adjustment to OLED mura noise.
Another problem with OLED, the nature of the organic diodes they have highly variable output. And this output changes, and not always uniformly, across product lifetime.

There are reasons why we have only started seeing OLED screens in the last few years, even though we have been talking about them since the mid 90's.

But it does seem to also stagnate a bit.
it's almost more interesting what is being developed in regards to direct LED displays these days.
An example of this would be the new cinema displays where each pixel is made up of three LED colour pixels and thus use no backlighting.
Basically billboard tech taken to the extreme.

This might be ok for a 50' or more cinema screen but far from applicable in smaller displays.

Hence new rumors suggesting that oculus and other vr manufacturers are looking more to faster refresh LCD and disregarding OLED.
They will loose the amazing contrast levels in OLED and that is something I'm really loathe to loose but I can see the reasons.

It would also help make prices come down quicker.

As for oculus spud you can try disabling it manually with a registry tweak.

if you are lucky in the panel lottery turning it off can produce a better image.
For many though it's the other way around.

https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/6tca7t/why_you_may_need_to_disable_spud_oled_mura/
 
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loribee

loribee
I’m thinking of picking up a Vive so I can use the lighthouses and controllers when my pimax comes in January.
 

evanevery

evanevery
loribee said:
I’m thinking of picking up a Vive so I can use the lighthouses and controllers when my pimax comes in January.
Click to expand...

You don't need any lighthouses with "inside-out" tracking (as the Pimax8K will have)...

(Just like your "old" Samsung Odyssey had... ;-)
 

loribee

loribee
evanevery said:
You don't need any lighthouses with "inside-out" tracking (as the Pimax8K will have)...

(Just like your "old" Samsung Odyssey had... ;-)
Click to expand...

Really? That’s awesome if that’s the case. But the controllers don’t come until April though too.
 

evanevery

evanevery
loribee said:
Really? That’s awesome if that’s the case. But the controllers don’t come until April though too.
Click to expand...

I get the need for controllers (although none of the VR games I play - Elite - require them), but why does everybody seem to think you need the lighthouses. I'm seeing this assumption popping up in multiple threads.

The Samsung Odyssey's tracking ("inside-out") is absolutely spot on and doesn't drift at all. (We know this from personal experience). The Pimax8K is coming with similar "inside-out" tracking. Why would anyone think we still needed lighthouses? The whole point of "inside-out" tracking is to eliminate such requirements...
 

Cruise

Cruise
I’m looking forward to reading everyone’s experience with the Pimax 8k, when it’s out.
I think that’s the vr direction I’m heading, subject to positive feedback on the ED forum.
 

jojon

J
dogbite said:
Basically what everyone who has both has been saying for a year and a half.
Click to expand...

Umm, maybe not every body... I recently broke my Vive (stupid, clumsy, self-inflicted), and have had to dig out my Rift (CV1), and I find the experience quite painful.

The effective resolution is noticeably higher, yes (you get five pixels over a distance the Vive only gets four), and it plays nice with SRGB, presenting pleasant "monitor-like" colour grading, whereas the brighter Vive often comes across as having too much contrast, and blowing out/crushing the top and bottom, unless the material has been mastered for the, in that case lovely, specific dynamic range.

...but for me (as the only person in the world, apparently), the binocular rivalry, caused by the tradeoffs Oculus made to achieve that higher resolution, is a total showstopper, and leaves me unable to manage any remotely long session, without severe eyestrain.

I usually fly an AspX, and have enough field of view in the Vive, that I can sit upright and see the lights on the curved canopy frame on both sides, with both eyes; In the Rift, while the "total" FOV juuust encompass both struts (brushes against them, at least), the field of view for each eye terminates into a black block, long before reaching the frame on its far side, including clipping the holofac displays -- very, very, disturbing -- I am not given to claustrophobia, but almost had a panic attack when I hopped into the Asp, wearing the Rift for the first time in months, after having been in the same place, wearing the Vive, the day before. It was like looking out of a small box.
...but... by all accounts, no other user ever seem to even notice it - go figure.

This smaller field of view also appears to me to be the reason people get the impression overall focal clarity covers a larger area... Not much, as far as I can tell; A bit, but mostly it seems to be more a matter of it being a larger percentage of an area that is smaller to begin with.

(Also: ASW artifacts are acceptable to people?!)

</rambling>
 
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TorTorden_VR

T
evanevery said:
You don't need any lighthouses with "inside-out" tracking (as the Pimax8K will have)...

(Just like your "old" Samsung Odyssey had... ;-)
Click to expand...

Again, the closest Pimax has gotten to make a statement on that is you will NEED at least one lighthouse for spatial tracking.

And I suspect the integrated "laser tracking system" is actually just the sensors for reading the lighthouses.
Without the external lighthouse I would not count on it having more than rotational tracking at most.

But I don't see how it's not possible to just buy one additional lighthouse from the vive accessories store rather than a whole kit.

Unless you of course also want the controllers as well, then you would want a second lighthouse since you will be standing between your controller and your lighthouse at least 35% of your playtime.
 

heretowatch

heretowatch
evanevery said:
I get the need for controllers (although none of the VR games I play - Elite - require them), but why does everybody seem to think you need the lighthouses. I'm seeing this assumption popping up in multiple threads.

The Samsung Odyssey's tracking ("inside-out") is absolutely spot on and doesn't drift at all. (We know this from personal experience). The Pimax8K is coming with similar "inside-out" tracking. Why would anyone think we still needed lighthouses? The whole point of "inside-out" tracking is to eliminate such requirements...
Click to expand...

I was personally confused by the wording in their kickstarter. Something about "if you already have Vive controllers and lighthouses, get this deal" made it sound like both were required for the 8K.
 

evanevery

evanevery
TorTorden said:
Again, the closest Pimax has gotten to make a statement on that is you will NEED at least one lighthouse for spatial tracking.

And I suspect the integrated "laser tracking system" is actually just the sensors for reading the lighthouses.
Without the external lighthouse I would not count on it having more than rotational tracking at most.

But I don't see how it's not possible to just buy one additional lighthouse from the vive accessories store rather than a whole kit.

Unless you of course also want the controllers as well, then you would want a second lighthouse since you will be standing between your controller and your lighthouse at least 35% of your playtime.
Click to expand...

WRONG:

From the Pimax8K FAQ:

What are the positional tracking solutions?
Pimax 8K supports both outside-in tracking and inside-out tracking solutions. You can switch between different modes.
The outside-in tracking is based on cutting edge laser tracking technology with minimal latency. Pimax offers PiTracking mode and Steam Compatible mode. With Steam COmpatible Mode, you can use all Valve accessories with Pimax 8K. The developing path of PiTracking is more flexible, and Pimax controllers are much lighter than vive controllers.
Pimax 8K enables inside-out tracking with modules.
In addition, we will enable house-scale ( >50 sqm ) tracking with a new module.
 
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