Thank you frontier for punishing the exploiting scum and finally making Open safe again!

[ryan_m]

That is nonsense and you know it, a good few PVP players have been on YouTube doing so, also I'd ask you why a PVE player would be in a PVP situation that often? No, you need to look closer to home, (no personal accusation there), for at least part of the problem. Also, your idea would have more merit if a large portion of the playerbase were doing it, they aren't.

Before I was in SDC, I pirated with The Code. 60% of the people I'd pull would combat log, despite a macro that I'd send clearly explaining what was happening. There are reddit threads literally praising my pirate methods because I did absolutely everything by the book. Wouldn't stop the majority of people I'd pull from combat logging.

FDev knows where their bread is buttered, and will bend over backwards to appease this group. We both know that.

 

[-Denali-]

Yeah, that is already being bypassed, there's a way to trick the mission system to keep bringing up new missions and not just ones already on the board.

And yet we have those insisting it's not an exploit, despite FDEV's attempted fix.

LOL. I stand corrected.

 

[Theodrid]

Before I was in SDC, I pirated with The Code. 60% of the people I'd pull would combat log, despite a macro that I'd send clearly explaining what was happening. There are reddit threads literally praising my pirate methods because I did absolutely everything by the book. Wouldn't stop the majority of people I'd pull from combat logging.

FDev knows where their bread is buttered, and will bend over backwards to appease this group. We both know that.

No, sorry, PVP'ers are just as guilty, also, I've looked through a decent number of those KOS logger lists, now be honest with me, taking into account how many 'repeats' are on those lists, how many individual commanders would you say are on them? Even if we inflate the numbers and frequency, (which many feel the need to do, if you need to exaggerate to make a point you haven't got much of one), it still makes up a tiny proportion of the playerbase.

 

[ryan_m]

No, sorry, PVP'ers are just as guilty, also, I've looked through a decent number of those KOS logger lists, now be honest with me, taking into account how many 'repeats' are on those lists, how many individual commanders would you say are on them? Even if we inflate the numbers and frequency, (which many feel the need to do, if you need to exaggerate to make a point you haven't got much of one), it still makes up a tiny proportion of the playerbase.

What evidence do you have of this? You're using a subreddit that pretty much exists to shame loggers that are PvPers? That's such obvious selection bias. I've personally reported well over 100 loggers, and only 4-5 are actual known PvPers, because I made sure to save the shadowplay of it.

 

[Theodrid]

What evidence do you have of this? You're using a subreddit that pretty much exists to shame loggers that are PvPers? That's such obvious selection bias. I've personally reported well over 100 loggers, and only 4-5 are actual known PvPers, because I made sure to save the shadowplay of it.

Heresay isn't evidence either, Ryan what part of this being a peer to peer game and as such it being impossible for Frontier to differentiate between a network outage and a cable pull don't you understand? And by the way, I'm not just referring to the subreddit, we can have a balanced, honest conversation or not Ryan, you decide.

 

[ryan_m]

Heresay isn't evidence either, Ryan what part of this being a peer to peer game and as such it being impossible for Frontier to differentiate between a network outage and a cable pull don't you understand?

I perfectly understand the network limitations, but that doesn't excuse the fact that it is an exploit that FDev refuses to do anything about. I've reported people with video evidence along with screenshots of them bragging about having a script for it, and I still see them in the game. I'd post the relevant info here, but I'll surely get modded for it.

I get that sometimes people play with bad connections and I absolutely don't want those people to be punished, but if there is clear evidence that someone combat logged and intended to, it should be a pretty open and shut case. All I want is literally ANY actual evidence that FDev does anything at all about combat logging, because that is, by far, the most widespread exploit in the game and it's existed since launch.

 

[Mohrgan]

I perfectly understand the network limitations, but that doesn't excuse the fact that it is an exploit that FDev refuses to do anything about. I've reported people with video evidence along with screenshots of them bragging about having a script for it, and I still see them in the game. I'd post the relevant info here, but I'll surely get modded for it.

I get that sometimes people play with bad connections and I absolutely don't want those people to be punished, but if there is clear evidence that someone combat logged and intended to, it should be a pretty open and shut case. All I want is literally ANY actual evidence that FDev does anything at all about combat logging, because that is, by far, the most widespread exploit in the game and it's existed since launch.

There you go, you have isolated the key to this discussion: "...but if there is clear evidence..". Only FD can determine if there is clear evidence, and I believe they are tracking it. What you, or others, consider proper evidence is irrelevant. FD have to run a business, deal with consumers, and governments. I'm sure they are doing all their business can support dealing with CL'ers. Combat Logging is as old as computer gaming. There is no way to eliminate it, and almost no way to control it on a P2P set up like we have in Elite. We just have to come to grips with this small matter.

 

[ryan_m]

There you go, you have isolated the key to this discussion: "...but if there is clear evidence..". Only FD can determine if there is clear evidence, and I believe they are tracking it. What you, or others, consider proper evidence is irrelevant. FD have to run a business, deal with consumers, and governments. I'm sure they are doing all their business can support dealing with CL'ers. Combat Logging is as old as computer gaming. There is no way to eliminate it, and almost no way to control it on a P2P set up like we have in Elite. We just have to come to grips with this small matter.

In November, we proved that FDev wasn't actually doing all they could when it came to combat logging. We specifically tested them over the course of a couple months, and afterwards they admitted that our specific ones "fell through the cracks." That's certainly convenient, don't you think?

 

[Mohrgan]

In November, we proved that FDev wasn't actually doing all they could when it came to combat logging. We specifically tested them over the course of a couple months, and afterwards they admitted that our specific ones "fell through the cracks." That's certainly convenient, don't you think?

In Nov. you only proved FD didn't jump to your dog whistle. I would have let SDC/CODE complaints fall through a solid wood floor if it were possible. FD shouldn't necessarily feel that way, but I could accept it when they did. I was there, I saw the foolish mess you guys created and wasn't impressed one bit. You proved nothing but a mishap by the PR guys.

 

[ryan_m]

In Nov. you only proved FD didn't jump to your dog whistle. I would have let SDC/CODE complaints fall through a solid wood floor if it were possible. FD shouldn't necessarily feel that way, but I could accept it when they did. I was there, I saw the foolish mess you guys created and wasn't impressed one bit. You proved nothing but a mishap by the PR guys.

Oh, I forgot you're an FDev apologist. Carry on.

 

[Mohrgan]

Oh, I forgot you're an FDev apologist. Carry on.

Oh, I forgot you're a Spicie Boi apologist. Carry on.

 

[dognosh]

Discuss the problems,stop the insults, or I'll reprimand both of you !!!!

 

[Pville_Piper]

I think it's more a case of this:

The exploit I used is totally okay.
The exploit YOU used is bad.

And your problem is?

 

[Yaffle]

Ooooh, look a whole thread that FD has said it would monitor about combat logging...

Alright, I'm making the decision to close the thread here as we've moved a bit from the original topic at hand - which was related to the recent actions taken against the Engineers exploiters.

Please direct any discussion of combat logging to the thread here: Combat Logging Punishment Proposal which we'll be monitoring.

Any other exploits or offenses where action needs to be taken against an individual should be reported to our Support Team as usual. For any bugs or exploits you'd like to report, please do so on our Bug Reports Forum, or to through a support ticket if you wish to do so private so that it can be processed and marked for QA and Dev attention. Let's keep the jabs and naming/shaming thing out of those reports too, please, unless you're reporting to us privately.

From all of us here: Thank you for the massive amounts of feedback and support you've all provided in this thread. It's great to see that the majority of the community support the decisions to take punitive measures against those that would give themselves an unfair advantage over others.

o7

Maybe let's take that part of this discussion there.

 

[Theodrid]

I perfectly understand the network limitations, but that doesn't excuse the fact that it is an exploit that FDev refuses to do anything about. I've reported people with video evidence along with screenshots of them bragging about having a script for it, and I still see them in the game. I'd post the relevant info here, but I'll surely get modded for it.

I get that sometimes people play with bad connections and I absolutely don't want those people to be punished, but if there is clear evidence that someone combat logged and intended to, it should be a pretty open and shut case. All I want is literally ANY actual evidence that FDev does anything at all about combat logging, because that is, by far, the most widespread exploit in the game and it's existed since launch.

Ryan, how can Frontier act when they can't be sure on peer to peer infrastructure in many cases? Hoe can you be 100% sure that those 60% that you mention all logged on you and at least some of it wasn't Frontier's flaky networking, or instancing issues or any other number of issues? Listen, believe it or not a hell of a lot of the PVE community are with you, we consider logging cheating, we agree that logging in open is a crap move and we would prefer it was addressed. Sure, there are some idiots that promote that crap on the forums and it shouldn't be tolerated. But just as all you PVP guys, and quite rightly, don't like being branded as Psychos and griefers please don't think a large proportion of the PVE'ers don't share your views. In the main, and I include myself in this, some of us believe you and others should lighten up a bit in relation to what is essentially a minor inconvenience, ( it only wastes a minute or two of your time). Yes it harms piracy, yes it harms bounty hunting and yes Frontier should do everything they can within their fairly limited power to stop it.

 

[Theodrid]

Oh, I forgot you're an FDev apologist. Carry on.

Ryan, I have it on good authority, (and plain old common sense), that you guys spammed Frontier, how many of those were false positives?

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

I did piracy a lot (though independent) and my observations are the same as Ryans. Roughly around 60% combat log rate. I quit piracy because of this, it's just not worth it.

It's even worse in powerplay. I did that before I got into piracy and clogging was also one of the main reasons why I left, enemy expanding into our territory and up to 80% of them just task kill and continue in solo.

It's a waste of time. These activities are almost completly destroyed by clogging.

But I also agree about the PVE clogs not being that important. Most really don't care about some carebear asp logging off and won't even bother reporting. The juicy ones are clogs from big known names.


I'm typing so much in this thread cause my power supply died. It's time to go drinking now to finish off the evening so o69 cummanders.

 

[ryan_m]

Ryan, I have it on good authority, (and plain old common sense), that you guys spammed Frontier, how many of those were false positives?

Only if spamming equals 9 combat logs over 3 months from normal players, and 3 from SDC controlled alts. Every single one had a youtube video attached, and roughly half had screenshots of the player admitting to doing it, and even bragging about it in some cases.

 

[Theodrid]

Only if spamming equals 9 combat logs over 3 months from normal players, and 3 from SDC controlled alts. Every single one had a youtube video attached, and roughly half had screenshots of the player admitting to doing it, and even bragging about it in some cases.

Then that half, as I've already stated should get some, Frontier cannot tell from a clip if it was an outage or cable pull anymore than they can from their questionable choice of infrastructure.

 

[ryan_m]

Then that half, as I've already stated should get some, Frontier cannot tell from a clip if it was an outage or cable pull anymore than they can from their questionable choice of infrastructure.

It's really convenient that these people all had outages right when they were about to die, isn't it? Why are you making all of these excuses for people literally exploiting the game? IIRC, you were pretty amped up over people getting punished for the engineers exploit, but yet here you are making excuses for another much bigger exploit. How do you deal with the cognitive dissonance?