Thargoid invasion - Next target systems?

[Blaggerdy]

It's a good question Kalizandra the planetary invasions are easier to participate in due to absence of swarms. The last couple of weeks outpost only invasions have been a lot harder, with Kuruma and it's distance from arrival being an extreme case. Aleks Zuno did suggest leaving selected alerts so they progressed into invasions which I think was to cover the scenario you mention. If that does happen you'd probably have to get involved on day 1 of each cycle as they won't hang around.

I am more or less done with invasion for the time being, having spent a lot of time on Kuruma. If a maelstrom CG turns up I will switch to that. I am unsure whether to focus on alert or control systems, or do a bit of both and work out for myself what I can influence best.

 

[Blaggerdy]

If it helps to know, last cycle one Anaconda filled with 144 pieces of Cyclops would push Yukait by 8%.

Are you building your own Cyclops from 'spare parts'

 

[Shayan al Nasarwa]

What also works fine is doing combat on planets in control systems. There always spawns an interceptor with some scouts. So you can get ground combat without swarms...

 

[CMDR Aldebaran]

A big shout out to those who defended Kuruma.. that was an impressive effort under the circumstances!

 

[Aleks Zuno]

A very amazing and resolutely-fought victory in Kuruma!

Target at 18:00 26th April 3309:
Arietis Sector GG-Y d63 Alert 92% — Leigong 34 Ly, 1753 Ls planet

Clean-up:
Trianguli Sector JR-W b1-0 Alert 68% — Taranis 29 Ly, empty
Hyades Sector ZZ-O b6-1 Control 44% — Taranis 26 Ly, empty
Pegasi Sector YQ-J a10-3 Alert 20% — Raijin 27 Ly, empty
Pegasi Sector QE-N a8-4 Alert 12% — Raijin 27 Ly, empty
Col 285 Sector WN-Z b14-6 Alert 10% — Hadad 29 Ly, empty
Arietis Sector CQ-P b5-1 Alert 8% — Leigong 35 Ly, empty
HIP 21099 Control 6% — Indra 27 Ly, empty

A quick question to the big brains in this thread: Do we see the Invasion systems coming back? Or have we entered a new stage of the Thargoid War? I was really hoping to see the planet attack scenarios staying around for a bit longer (really enjoyed dropping in and joining other cmdr's in a bit of emergent gameplay as a solo player-plus the lack of swarms made it manageable for my skill level).

Indeed this arose quite soon after the widespread prevention of inhabited Alerts, and you are far from alone in enjoying the port defence! The general impression was that it helps relieve the evacuation aspect, but that many Commanders enjoy and engage in port defence by preference, where it then becomes both polite and optimal for harvest efforts to leave some good defensible systems to proceed to Invasion and instead move on to the actual clean-up.

I hope very much to achieve that by example at M. Hadad; as part of one wing operating only in Control systems, I am ensuring primarily that it sees a net erosion each cycle (seven cleared last week, seven more thus far this week!). We are also using the Alert prediction reports and targeting those evictions to guard inhabited systems where possible, which does result in fewer opportunities for a system to reach Invasion, although for the moment those systems closer to a Maelstrom provide enough Invasion opportunities already.

With respect for the very impressive Alert capacity and thanks for its ability to keep systems defended while evictions commence, I believe it is overachieving by clearing so many systems defensively when it could adapt to become Control capacity and perform counter-attacks quite easily! Not only that, but targeting them well also then reduces the amount of Alert capacity needed, making available yet more to form eviction teams—all while keeping alive the popular port defence scenario!

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

I hope very much to achieve that by example at M. Hadad; as part of one wing operating only in Control systems, I am ensuring primarily that it sees a net erosion each cycle (seven cleared last week, seven more thus far this week!). We are also using the Alert prediction reports and targeting those evictions to guard inhabited systems where possible, which does result in fewer opportunities for a system to reach Invasion, although for the moment those systems closer to a Maelstrom provide enough Invasion opportunities already.

With respect for the very impressive Alert capacity and thanks for its ability to keep systems defended while evictions commence, I believe it is overachieving by clearing so many systems defensively when it could adapt to become Control capacity and perform counter-attacks quite easily! Not only that, but targeting them well also then reduces the amount of Alert capacity needed, making available yet more to form eviction teams—all while keeping alive the popular port defence scenario!

I think you should change tactics by clearing control systems that will trigger alerts in unpopulated systems. Those are the tough ones to defend with barely any actions available and a one week timer, compared to alerts in populated systems that have several different actions available and will turn into invasions (with several more weeks to stage a defense) if not cleared by the end of the week.

 

[Starsong]

I think you should change tactics by clearing control systems that will trigger alerts in unpopulated systems. Those are the tough ones to defend with barely any actions available and a one week timer, compared to alerts in populated systems that have several different actions available and will turn into invasions (with several more weeks to stage a defense) if not cleared by the end of the week.

You're missing the fact that unpopulated systems, when dealt with using the tissue sampling method (which is by far the most effective way to fight both populated and unpopulated Alerts) clear much faster than populated ones. Plus, they're not much harder to clear when they go to Control - as opposed to inhabiteds, which require much more extra to fight at Invasion or Control.

 

[Ned Flandalorian]

You're missing the fact that unpopulated systems, when dealt with using the tissue sampling method (which is by far the most effective way to fight both populated and unpopulated Alerts) clear much faster than populated ones. Plus, they're not much harder to clear when they go to Control - as opposed to inhabiteds, which require much more extra to fight at Invasion or Control.

You're missing the fact that there's at least 13 unpopulated alerts right now with zero progress that will all switch to thargoid controlled at the tick, while all the AX pilots who only want to fight at invasions are sitting on their hands because they have nowhere left to clear.
We only get one week to clear an unpopulated alert. Then the new control system can start spreading alerts within two weeks.

We get up to four weeks to clear an invasion. There are no uncleared invasions at the moment. That means it will be nearly an entire month minimum before there is any chance of a populated system falling. Use that to our advantage and make use of the resources (AX cmdrs) while they are available.

 

[Phill P]

Indeed this arose quite soon after the widespread prevention of inhabited Alerts, and you are far from alone in enjoying the port defence! The general impression was that it helps relieve the evacuation aspect, but that many Commanders enjoy and engage in port defence by preference, where it then becomes both polite and optimal for harvest efforts to leave some good defensible systems to proceed to Invasion and instead move on to the actual clean-up.

As far as Invasions go attacked ground ports have been the most popular. Not as fast or efficient for rescues and deliveries as a space station near the main star, more time consuming to travel to, but they look cool especially on Odyssey planets. They are also one of the few places where combat and non combat activities can be done together and wing up, and for those who want to try their hand at AX but are not very good at it like me you don't have swarms to worry about.

I remade my old rescue Vette to shoot scouts, occasional interceptors and take tissue samples at an attacked ground port and it was pretty productive. Land at the ground port, take a couple of scout killing missions because the CZ always begins with a wave of them before the Interceptors come in, and you will still have to keep scouts away while sampling the Interceptors otherwise they shoot you and the samples. In one haul I got around 50 scout kills, 40 Cyclops samples then when I ran out of limpets I killed the cyclops, then went and sold all the samples.

Again though, while I will miss the fun of that when it's gone I don't think a certain number of ports to work on, attacked or not, should be kept simply for everyone to have something to do. Other non combative activities need to be created for when the AX people are clearing the controlled systems. We don't need to keep a bit of what we have now just to satisfy a niche. Make new ways for non combatants to get involved instead.

With respect for the very impressive Alert capacity and thanks for its ability to keep systems defended while evictions commence, I believe it is overachieving by clearing so many systems defensively when it could adapt to become Control capacity and perform counter-attacks quite easily!

People doing Alerts and not Controlled isn't something that could "adapt to control capacity". You're talking about non AX people suddenly switching to AX as if it was no more than a resource allocation process. It's certainly isn't something everyone can do "quite easily", or even want to. If they can't find more imaginative things for people to do than just fight it's not much of an idea. No war, ever, has only been about fighting.

If people still want ports, and non AX to do, to defend perhaps controlled systems could have ways to bring them back online while the fight is still happening, instead of just recovering afterwards. Deliveries, your earlier idea of shipping in personnel etc. Once back online they would need defending and more deliveries of goods and people. Or for those who still consider that too dangerous or requiring experience they don't have or want, they could be shipping to nearby systems to support the troops.

 

[Phill P]

You're missing the fact that unpopulated systems, when dealt with using the tissue sampling method (which is by far the most effective way to fight both populated and unpopulated Alerts) clear much faster than populated ones. Plus, they're not much harder to clear when they go to Control - as opposed to inhabiteds, which require much more extra to fight at Invasion or Control.

Not quite. Populated Alerts are easier to clear than Invasions since the last change and they have more to do in them than unpopulated Alerts. Rescues and deliveries can be used so you're not just relying on tissue sampling, or waiting to do it. You can get on with it straight away.

Relogging HGE style at signal sources with escape pods in works too but seems to be painfully slow to progress anything and is far from satisfying gameplay.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

This week has been relatively low on inhabited alert targets - 16 - whereas next week should be back up to around 23 including quite a few short-range ones, which will probably allow quite a few more through to Invasion the week after.

Tuning that number across all maelstroms to efficiently use all sorts of capacity is going to be tricky, of course - too many inhabited systems hit and some of them are lost; clearly <20 inhabited systems as it's been most of the time since the cost rebalance leaves too few for the potentially available "inhabited" capacity to be used successfully.

 

[Blaggerdy]

From the above few comments it feels like we are still learning what works best, and it varies depending on the ability of participants. Over the last few months I have found trying a few things and either playing to strengths or improving weaknesses both work.

I winged up with a couple of CMDRs this evening in a hunt for orthrus (NHSS 4 in alert systems), having previously sampled a few tissues. We didn't do too well in the first couple of hours, with few finds and unable to get any kills. I gave up, but later re-winged with one of them to get more sightings and a couple of kills. I'm certainly thinking of changing ships for more of this, depending on what tomorrows cycle and potential CG brings.

Practice. Practice. Don't get too frustrated. Practice some more. Getting to grips with something that initially seems impossible is a reward in itself.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

I think you should change tactics by clearing control systems that will trigger alerts in unpopulated systems. Those are the tough ones to defend with barely any actions available and a one week timer, compared to alerts in populated systems that have several different actions available and will turn into invasions (with several more weeks to stage a defense) if not cleared by the end of the week.

I agree in part, specifically in the absence of Research teams leaving more of those populated Alerts alone. That specifically being the case, indeed—I should run clean-up in a way which self-serves the clean-up and leave as many inhabited Alerts as possible, overwhelming the Alert effort and thereby effecting Invasions. Ideally though, given that the basic Alert and Control actions being deployed are actually much the same, the prevention of attacks on populated systems would minimise the amount of said action required and the restraint to leave those which remain would supply the Invasion capacity with targets aplenty.

I understand also the alarming nature of leaving uninhabited Alerts around, however from my perspective it makes perfect sense. I am much happier with clearing Control rather than Alert (inhabited or otherwise), I have a Wing which can clear Control more quickly than it can clear Alert, and said rate is simply faster than M. Hadad recruits new systems!

People doing Alerts and not Controlled isn't something that could "adapt to control capacity". You're talking about non AX people suddenly switching to AX as if it was no more than a resource allocation process.

I should have clarified; those doing Alerts via Research harvests definitely can adapt to Control! I would never claim that non-AX can simply switch to AX, but I do claim that those already harvesting in Alert systems can switch over to harvesting in Control systems. In my case, I could tolerate no more jumping back and forth to summon an Interceptor into an Alert system versus simply dropping anywhere in a Control system, so I was very much happier for it!

Perhaps some benefit-of-doubt would be good though; I pose the following questions to anyone running Alert harvests:

• Are there any particular desirable features of harvesting in Alert systems which make them preferable over Control systems?
• Are there any particular unwanted features of harvesting in Control systems which make them inferior to your Alert systems?

Admittedly the Scouts are seldom welcome, although notably a landfall harvest removes the very much less-wanted Swarm, something which those running Alerts always have to manage.

If people still want ports, and non AX to do, to defend perhaps controlled systems could have ways to bring them back online while the fight is still happening, instead of just recovering afterwards.

For so much efficacy in return for something so simple, that is one of the best ideas yet! Definitely it is fair to say that we would all prefer new types of action so that all roles can apply themselves to all types of system, the absence of which makes an unfortunate case for keeping at least a few Invasion systems for the moment, but port recapture and defence in a Control system would solve that problem and would be a lovely process to have!

 

[Phill P]

I should have clarified; those doing Alerts via Research harvests definitely can adapt to Control! I would never claim that non-AX can simply switch to AX, but I do claim that those already harvesting in Alert systems can switch over to harvesting in Control systems.

Controlled systems have been far more dangerous than Alerts for me. I wouldn't make the assumption that there is no difference in difficulty just because there isn't for you personally.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Victories in Col 285 Sector JW-M c7-11 and Arietis Sector GG-Y d63!

Admittedly we had JW-M c7-11 assured several hours ago, though decided to take a difficulty measurement rather than completing it straight away. This proved wise, because it became a direct counter-example to the trend emerging regarding the distance to Sol. We thought it would need around 704 Cyclops samples, though a sneaky early delivery suggested 720–800, and after improving the (literal...) sample size it turned out to be 768–786. It was almost as if the casual destruction of Scouts while doing it can give as much as a 10% bonus for different actions!

Clean-up:
Trianguli Sector JR-W b1-0 Alert 78% — Taranis 29 Ly, empty
Hyades Sector ZZ-O b6-1 Control 60% — Taranis 26 Ly, empty

Controlled systems have been far more dangerous than Alerts for me. I wouldn't make the assumption that there is no difference in difficulty just because there isn't for you personally.

For as much as it can be worth, I promise you that harvesting a Cyclops above a landfall planet in a Control system is far safer than with a summoned Cyclops in an Alert system! The only aspect of it for which such a Control system is objectively more dangerous is the Supercruise journey, although this is not more dangerous than when moving around at an Invasion system. Having Scouts adds so little threat, and not having Swarms removes so much!

 

[yttrbio]

Cephei Sector ZZ-Y b3 (14.94 ly) is the first eviction from a system that was originally claimed by the maelstrom on arrival. Unpopulated. Reported to require about 3800 samples, with a specific test concluding that there was no difference in value for cyclops vs medusa samples.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Cephei Sector ZZ-Y b3 (14.94 ly) is the first eviction from a system that was originally claimed by the maelstrom on arrival. Unpopulated. Reported to require about 3800 samples, with a specific test concluding that there was no difference in value for cyclops vs medusa samples.

That will be a number to keep in mind for anything within around 16 Ly of a Maelstrom; it is significantly lower than the curve which is forming for me, and I suspect that it may have reached some upper limit. Supposing not, my second thought would be to look once again at whether the Sol distance matters and is actually not normalised per Maelstrom, for which I would need to study whether there appears to be a lower limit at systems further from M. Oya and where it occurs if so.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

On the strategic side, another thing to consider is the relative difficulty of different Invasion systems: even just 5 or 6 of them might be plenty to keep those teams busy if they were all within the 20 LY shell (and possibly even more so within 15 LY). Being able to relatively efficiently block the advance of a Maelstrom with the strategies in use at Hadad might if replicated elsewhere allow the majority of effort to be directed to retaking and holding inhabited systems closer to the Maelstroms - which would provide plenty of constant work for those who like fighting Invasions.

I understand also the alarming nature of leaving uninhabited Alerts around, however from my perspective it makes perfect sense. I am much happier with clearing Control rather than Alert (inhabited or otherwise), I have a Wing which can clear Control more quickly than it can clear Alert, and said rate is simply faster than M. Hadad recruits new systems!

Not all uninhabited Alerts are equal, either - which is why I've started including the crude "direction" measure on the predictions. An Alert 25 LY out on the bubble side potentially gives it access to multiple systems of greater importance next cycle. An Alert 25 LY out on the "outside" will eventually give it access to a system even less directly threatening. Swapping a near-side Control for a far-side Alert seems positive overall even if it were purely 1:1

Cooldown cycles are another consideration - cleared Alerts are re-attacked every three weeks, while letting them take the Alert and retaking it the following week has to be done only once every six weeks. It very much depends on whether the system is one that you'd rather fight over as little as possible (to keep them from moving in that direction) or are deliberately re-clearing as bait (to encourage them to move in a pointless direction)

whether the Sol distance matters

It of course might not directly be the Sol distance but the (related?) presence of AXCZs that adjusts the difficulty to simulate greater NPC assistance.

 

[Aleks Zuno]

Week 22, 27th April 3309​

Report
Sixteen Alerts repelled at Arietis Sector YU-P b5-1, Gliese 3050, Cabarci, HIPs 20527, 2422 and 20850, Muncheim, Cephei Sector EL-Y c23, 63 Eridani, Jaoi, Bi Dhorora, Awara, Ngolite, Pathamon, Aurus, Senocidi.
Four Invasions defended at Arietis Sector DQ-Y c18, Col 285 Sectors AF-E b13-5 and YT-F b12-3, HIP 18702.
Thirteen Control evictions at Cephei Sectors ZE-A c10 and FB-X b1-5, HIPs 28183, 28913 and 10616, Arietis Sector YJ-R b4-4, Fotlandjera, Col 285 Sectors RH-B b14-1, FQ-O c6-3 and OB-D b13-6, Gliese 9843, Gliese 753, Auaker.

Targets updated at 06:40 4th May 3309
HIP 23716 Alert 76% — Taranis 18 Ly, 2314 Ls starport, 2351 Ls outpost, 2354 Ls planet
Hyades Sector ZZ-O b6-1 Control 42% — Taranis 26 Ly, empty
HR 1403 Alert 18% — Indra 25 Ly, 194 Ls starport, 62k Ls outpost, 194 Ls planet
HIP 26274 Alert 16% — Taranis 24 Ly, 4936 Ls planet
Kalkaduna Alert 16% — Thor 39 Ly, 93 Ls outpost, 93 Ls planet
Col 285 Sector XN-Z b14-5 Alert 10% — Hadad 32 Ly, empty
Hez Ur Alert 10% — Cocijo 22 Ly, 446 Ls starport, 236 Ls outpost
Sukurbago Alert 8% — Cocijo 24 Ly, 798 Ls starport
Col 285 Sector QW-D b12-1 Alert 6% — Thor 40 Ly, empty
Hyades Sector LN-K b8-4 Alert 6% — Leigong 26 Ly, empty
Pegasi Sector RE-N a8-4 Control 4% — Raijin 25 Ly, empty
Arietis Sector DQ-Y c9 Control 2% — Indra 25 Ly, empty
Col 285 Sector UD-G b12-2 Alert 2% — Cocijo 26 Ly, 2174 Ls planet
HIP 20948 Control 2% — Indra 24 Ly
Pegasi Sector AR-J a10-3 Control 2% — Raijin 31 Ly, empty
Pegasi Sector GW-W d1-115 Control 2% — Raijin 23 Ly
Pegasi Sector OE-N a8-1 Alert 2% — Raijin 27 Ly, empty

Notes
The Alert report lists predicted attackers which can be stopped this cycle.

Week 21, 20th April 3309​

Report
Thirteen Alerts repelled at Cephei Sector CQ-Y b3, Luggerates, HIPs 21991, 20019 and 19757, HR 1812, Juipedun, Cao Tzu, Aowicha, Khondo Po, Nu Guang, Jawul, Arietis Sector GG-Y d63.
Four Invasions defended at 69 Upsilon Tauri, Yan Zangata, Bormuninus, Kuruma.
Eleven Control evictions at Col 285 Sectors JW-M c7-11, NR-B b14-0, OC-L c8-11, SX-Z b14-1, TS-Z b14-4, YY-X b15-8, TS-Z b14-0 and TS-Z b14-5, HIP 115777, Cephei Sectors HW-W b1-5 and ZZ-Y b3.

 

[Phill P]

For as much as it can be worth, I promise you that harvesting a Cyclops above a landfall planet in a Control system is far safer than with a summoned Cyclops in an Alert system! The only aspect of it for which such a Control system is objectively more dangerous is the Supercruise journey, although this is not more dangerous than when moving around at an Invasion system. Having Scouts adds so little threat, and not having Swarms removes so much!

Interesting. So above a planet is the trick. Might have guessed I suppose. Have to try that. Do you have one person keeping the cyclops occupied whole another takes samples, to avoid it shooting the limpets?