Thargoid Non-Aggression Pact!

[Louis Calvert]

Sorry, no proof of this. Only conjecture, based on the alleged society of the aliens and their alleged insect-like appearance. Something can live in a hive, with a social imperative that promotes the hive over the self, and be 'genetically' (ór whatever serves similar purpose in alien physiology) predisposed to this activity - but it's not a "hivemind" - the word was badly coined and has since been abused by fiction and popular culture to result in the sort of nonsense.

The concept of "hive mind" is a misnomer. It's applied to a hive mentality, where chemical signals and other communications are used to direct activity. Nothing to do with "mind" . Creatures with a more complex cognitive caps can think for themselves and are not bound to follow (for example) pheremone urges despite them having a significant influence.

In fact, the closest thing to any ED defiitive statent to "hive mind" is here from the unofficial and non-FD source "Elite Dangerous wikia" which states:

"Not much information has been obtained about Thargoid society or culture. The only known fact is that the society is hive based, with no sense of close family. It is thought that the society is divided into colonies, possibly along the lines of ant colonies. The Oresrian and Klaxian dynasties may be two such"

No mention of hive mind, only a hive based society (which is curious, since no homeworlds nor larger social groupings of Thargoids has ever been verified) - One can live and exist in a hive and operate for a hive and still ahve individual choice over whether or not to attack some random human.

The "hivemind" of typical earth-based insects work because insects cannot support complex 'brains' nor have the energy to use them - for a larger being (presumably intelligent) - this notion is not condusive to a successful evolutionary model - the benefit to intelligence is an ability to think for oneself and act independatly - whilst a principle of ethics or "morality" which favours the benefit to the community (hive) rather than the self is advantageous - this again, does not preclude choices such as whether to attack or not attack a particular human.

It has also been previously that Thargoids are insect-like - note that again, this is solely due to appearance - and largely the result of "traveller's tales" - no reliable reports are available detailing scientific study of any actual specimen ... This is also somewhat countered by the popular consideration that what ew encounter as 'ships' might actually be a living being to some extent or other - though given the FACT that so-called "Barnacles" were actually engineered from other lifeorms - I think it far more reasonable to consider that Thargoids have enginneered a lifeform which serves them as a spacefaring vehicle.

There's no "proof" - as in, we've not seen it in-game, but it is considered Lore to consider them hive-minded (they were in FFE, it's been retconned to a rumour now):

https://community.elitedangerous.com/en/galnet/12-AUG-3302

"Since then, very little credible information has emerged. The original accounts from 3125 report that Thargoid ships can execute huge hyperspace jumps, while information purportedly from INRA documents indicates that the Thargoids originate from an ammonia-based world. There are even rumours that the Thargoids have a collective consciousness or 'hive mind'. Some of the less outlandish theories include the suggestion that electronic countermeasure technology was reverse-engineered from captured Thargoid vessels."

EDIT: Meant to say - we know a bunch of that paragraph was in previous games as Lore - it's just that now it's "rumour", so it remains to be confirmed, but is likely still true.

Not sure what you mean by salt. Please clarify.

Just that you were being grumbly about Fdev "FDev make some ridiculous and very bad decisions all the time..." etc

 

[Archduke]

I wasn't "being 'grumpy". I was just giving the observation.
With regards to the "rumour" - even if taken as NOT a rumour, it is only "reports" - which are neither necessarily reliable nor confirmed. Since it has been retconned from "reports" to "rumour", this means that it can only be considered as rumour - everything else is conjectural.

I would imagine, if it were known for a fact that there is such a "hive consciousness" (again, highly dubious as to how creatures can communicate 'telepathically' across interstellar distances) then organisations such as Canonn et al would establish this and it would have been firmly concrete in the lore.

 

[Bartizan]

The only thing I personally know right now is they only attack if I attack them or carry around goid cargo. Them scooping up escape pods might be their own version of a rescue mission and no actual harm is being done OR those people are eaten which is not cool, but one sympathizes. They clearly hate the Guardians, but we don't exactly know why. They hate being attacked....well duh. They hate us taking their stuff....well duh.

Non-aggression pact? maybe...but I think I will hedge my bets for now till more of the facts come to light.

 

[Louis Calvert]

I wasn't "being 'grumpy". I was just giving the observation.
With regards to the "rumour" - even if taken as NOT a rumour, it is only "reports" - which are neither necessarily reliable nor confirmed. Since it has been retconned from "reports" to "rumour", this means that it can only be considered as rumour - everything else is conjectural.

I would imagine, if it were known for a fact that there is such a "hive consciousness" (again, highly dubious as to how creatures can communicate 'telepathically' across interstellar distances) then organisations such as Canonn et al would establish this and it would have been firmly concrete in the lore.

A grumpy observation is still both an observation and grumpy

You can easily explain hive behaviour without having to resort to any kind of telepathy. Ants, Bees, all Hive creatures, no Telepathy. There's a brilliant example of a technologically advanced Alien hive-mind that doesn't at all use Telepathy in the novel Pandor's Star. I won't spoiler it, but it's really good and the same principle could easily apply to Thargoids Also you could easily apply the same mentality the Alien in that has as being why the Thargoids are a threat to us!

RE: hive mind:
In the ED Novels Thargoids are fiercely intelligent insectiods, absolutely Hive minded and are willing and capable of working with certain humans to further goals - The writers were given info from Fdev in order to write them, and Fdev vetted the content, so if Thargoids are described as Insectoids with a Hive Mind, then that's what Fdev intended and it's 100% lore.

But, as Drew said, the info in the novels aren't "General knowledge", the characters in them have personal encounters, and so what we get from them isn't necessarily generally known info - it's privileged info. That's why the Hive-mind nature of Thargoids isn't in Galnet, because if you recall, no-one publically believed the Thargoids were even real until the first flower ship showed up (except a few 'crackpots'). Again the reasons for all this are in the novels.

I don't consider the books Lore until whatever they say appears in ED, but they are technically Lore regardless of what I think.

 

[Archduke]

There's no medoum for pheromones or vibrations, electromagnetic transmission would take hundreds of years to reach hives. If thete is communication of consciousness as you seem so intent to peddle, then this only leaves a telepathy. As I previously explained, the most plausible rational for a hive mentality is due to genetic (or equivalent) disposition and imperative to promote hive prioruties aboove the self.This would substantiate rumours of "hive mind" whilst not violating physical laws, not invoking magic, not suggestinve of arcane knowledge and not reprating the fantasy misrepresentation of "collective" behaviours.Thevquotation you used states "hive minded" this only siggests a dedication priority to the hive and says nothing of collective consciousness.

 

[Louis Calvert]

They don't need to be linked together as one. Ants aren't, Bees aren't - No Telepathy, still a hive species. Hive Minded.

We communicate instantly via FTL magic in ED.

We can transmit holograms to the other side of the Galaxy... pretty sure Thargoids could solve the problem of FTL comms. Anything in the brain (pheromones, words, sign language, etc) ultimately comes down to electrical signals, and therefore can be stimulated via something like an implant - so, add an FTL comms implant to your drones. BANG! instant space-faring Hive mind - no need for telepathy.

Did you look up Pandora's star?

Spoiler

In that, the alien needs physical contact via a sense organ to transmit instructions to the drones, they then carry out those instructions. It then invents radio, and can send messages to remote drones and takes over it's homeworld as one hive mind, but when it goes into space it takes hours/days to send updated instructions, too slow to respond. Later it invents FTL comms devices that allow it to fold all of the drones in a network - even on other planets.

Because it's Hive Minded, it finds the idea of sentient life that's not the same as it very disturbing, so it kills anything it finds.

When humans encounter it it's at first totally confounded by us, kidnaps many specimens for study and at first looses many battles. Then it adapts (because it's essentially billions of brains linked together by this point)....

Sounds familiar...

And so, my original point seems pretty solid:

"Knowing they've hive minded we need to consider whether attacking the drones constitutes an attack on the whole society, or is it comparable to nothing more than a single virus attacking a single cell in your body - beneath notice."