The 7 (or 5) stages of grief - how many weeks or months before people reach stage 7 (or 5)?

Deleted member 182079

D
Agony_Aunt said:
But i've never said people don't have the right to complain nor have i said that the customers are the reasons for the problem.

If that is your takeaway, then i'm perplexed, because it hasn't been my intention to say anything like that.

People have the right to complain. FD are the reason for the problem. But i am suggesting that perhaps its time for people to get over it. It has been a month already.
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The flaw in this argument is it's ignoring customers who purchased a copy of EDO more recently (though I would love to see the sales trend over the past 4 weeks!). They are well within their right to come here to vent their anger as well in the hope they "get over it" too, it's still an open forum after all.

Maybe tedious for the regulars but tough... Use the ignore button if it hurts too much.
 

ubermick

ubermick
sandkid said:
Take a group of kids, give them butcher's paper and crayons. What do you get?

A ton of fun, really neat ideas, new games...all sorts of stuff.
From crayons and paper. Bland, unimaginative, but highly creative tools.

Now...break the crayons, take away the primary colors (that's only three, by the by), and replace the paper with concrete, and give them ballpoint pens.
Still highly creative tools, but also broken and not nearly as fun to engage with. What happens?

Kids get mad (usually), some will make the best of it, but most will pout or go somewhere else to play.

Now then, I use kids not to say the complainers are childish. They are not. I use this analogy to answer your question of "what is happening to the community?" See, Elite is a very simple game - graphics and physics, highly complex, but very simple GAME play - and that is a strength and weakness for a community. A community is able to fill in the gaps and make it work wonders a developer never could. The flip side, though, is that if you break those creative tools...or change them for tools the players didn't want or work in intuitive ways...that community will rapidly disintegrate.

And, like most human beings, they will tell you why it is disintegrating and, like most human beings in authority (this case, developers), they'll scratch their head and go, "But ballpoint pens are better than crayons and concrete lasts longer than paper?"

The developer isn't wrong, but they are definitely wrong about their community. That typically makes people mad, keeps them mad, and usually doesn't end anytime soon. If you make a shallow 'sandbox' game...don't jack with the sand and NEVER take sand out. The kids aren't there because you built it. They are there because they can build with it.
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Absolutely - I'm not arguing that in the least. I don't think there's a single member of the community who is happy about the current state of Odyssey, who isn't frustrated at Frontier for releasing it FAR too soon, or doesn't have some modicum of pessimism about the months ahead. I don't think anybody is arguing that.

What I believe the OP is saying, and its a stance I personally agree with (personally, not applying it to anyone but me!) is that the LEVEL of hatred and bile is disproportionate to what's happening. Threats to developers and community managers. Concerted efforts to permanently/irrevocably ruin the game's reputation. Demands of mass firings. People calling for "naming of names" and blackisting. Calls for the community to "ruin FDev financially." That's not kids pouting or going somewhere else to play, that's kids telling other kids to get their parents' matches so they can burn the school down.

And while the analogy (a brilliant one, by the way!!) of concrete and ballpoint pens are more durable and "better", credit SHOULD be given (as well as taken away when earned) that the people of authority ARE listening to the kids, with UI other things being reworked based on OUR suggestions. (Now yes, it can certainly be argued, and I'd agree, that the concrete and pens shouldn't have been swapped in in the first place).

Like I said above, I'm more sad about the state of the community than I am the game. I do believe the game WILL be fixed - I do have questions about how long that'll take, and as already mentioned, I'm annoyed that it needs to be fixed in the first place. There are issues that need to be addressed by FDev for sure, but people spitting hate and simply shouting "WHERE ARE MY FPS?!?!?!" over and over is just creating noise that effectively drowns out the criticism FDev NEEDS to hear from the community.
 

Dartay

D
ubermick said:
What I believe the OP is saying, and its a stance I personally agree with (personally, not applying it to anyone but me!) is that the LEVEL of hatred and bile is disproportionate to what's happening. Threats to developers and community managers. Concerted efforts to permanently/irrevocably ruin the game's reputation. Demands of mass firings. People calling for "naming of names" and blackisting. Calls for the community to "ruin FDev financially." That's not kids pouting or going somewhere else to play, that's kids telling other kids to get their parents' matches so they can burn the school down.
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You mention multiple examples, a bunch of which are already forbidden by the ToU. Correct me if I'm wrong but the rest of your examples (most of which seem rather extreme and not prominent on these forums) seem to include posts advising people not to reward corporations for bad overpriced product, leaving bad reviews, and advising others not to trust this company's promises. All of which seem reasonable forum content.
 

[PS4] Filthymick420

[PS4] Filthymick420
Dartay said:
You mention multiple examples, a bunch of which are already forbidden by the ToU. Correct me if I'm wrong but the rest of your examples (most of which seem rather extreme and not prominent on these forums) seem to include posts advising people not to reward corporations for bad overpriced product, leaving bad reviews, and advising others not to trust this company's promises. All of which seem reasonable forum content.
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But if all that is considered there wouldn't be an argument to pitch 🤷‍♂️
 

Mogen Teras

M
I think many are still in the Denial phase tbh.

Why else would we be in week 4(5?) of patching and yet we are still seeing debates on the forum on whether or not EDO is broken at all? I STILL see people posting how the game is perfectly fine and the people who complain just have "potato PCs".
 

CMDR Fnool

CMDR Fnool
I'm already at acceptance tbh, i'm not upset anymore, just disappointed for Horizons really. It was quite a unique game and nothing else could offer what it offered, with Odyssey's new copy/paste planet-tech that has ballsed up the entire galaxy, the clunky, boring shooter and the rather sparse amount of content, loads of other games can now offer what it offers. In my estimation, No Man's Sky is at the present moment, the better game for explorers.
 
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Quantis Trap

Quantis Trap
After we all learned that the Odyssey release was just as bad as the alpha, I also decided to play other games like many have.

Surprisingly, I found that Star Citizen, which I hadn't played in two years has improved quite a bit! It's still buggy, but I have to say that it's almost like a real game now!
Frontier can have months to fix this and a wish them all the luck. I don't mind. I'll be playing SC, NMS, X4 and other games in my genre.

What's more annoying to me than the complainers though, is those complaining about the complainers!
 
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VR - wickfut

VR - wickfut
Agony_Aunt said:
I mean, come on guys. What's done is done. Everyone who wanted a moan has had plenty of moans already. FD have stated their plans for the coming months and its not likely they can say any more than that.

Yeah, Odyssey release was bad. I'm still not playing and won't until I can play with decent FPS (which may be months away or perhaps even never), and i'm not happy about it.

But hells people, some people are still banging on about it.
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People have paid money, the cost of a full price game, for some poorly coded, badly implemented update on one of their favourite games. They have every right to complain.

Agony_Aunt said:
Its been a month already. Everything that needed to be said has been said. FD have already heard everything from words of support to people declaring refunds or they are throwing their computers out of the window because Odyssey made them so angry.
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The DLC is still up for sale on Steam. New people are buying this DLC even though FD have admitted that nearly every aspect of it is broken and in need of some serious work which will take months. Odyssey should be removed from sale and relisted once it's fixed.

Agony_Aunt said:
VR users, accept it, VR for legs isn't happening this year at least, if ever. You're still in the bargaining phase, trying to get FD to change their plans. Its not happening.
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No. You don't get to decide what I can and can't complain about. I was sold a VR game for £100 in 2014. I expect a VR game.

Agony_Aunt said:
People with performance issues - get over it. FD are working on it, but it might never improve significantly. Pass through the grief, move into acceptance.
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So the people who have just spent £40 on the game and get unplayable performance without any refund options should just accept it and move on?
It doesn't work like that.

Agony_Aunt said:
Or, alternately, spend your energy for the coming months complaining about stuff. I mean, there is one positive. You can keep complaining and complaining until FD eventually do improve performance and perhaps add VR or make other changes, and then when they do you can claim credit for making FD do it. Of course you didn't, but you can claim you did, and that if it wasn't for you then FD would never have done anything. There is probably some comfort to living in that sort of reality. :p
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I will. I'll keep complaining until they fix everything while I have an interest in the game. When my interest in the game fades and fixes aren't happening then I'll move on to other games and this will be forgotten and uninstalled. Which do you think FD want? A community of people who love their game complaining and requesting fixes, or a community of players who have become sick of being fed a lie and have moved on to SC or whatever?
FD should count themselves lucky that people actually care enough to stick around complaining.

Agony_Aunt said:
Or perhaps you'll simply claim that its people like me that allow devs to get away with doing bad stuff, and that only if everyone was like you that we wouldn't have devs putting out bad releases. In which case, I can only say LOL.
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When your opinion is dismissive of peoples issues and at odds with nearly an entire player base it's usually not the entire player base who is in the wrong.
 
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Werewolf13

Werewolf13
Vardaugas said:
Some people have been whine for years about Elite this and Elite that. it's not going to stop. Every time there is a patch or update the same people will raise the same noise.
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You're absolutely right. And neither Frontier or any other game company is going to stop releasing broken garbage because gamers accept that broken at release is the norm.

Imagine one having taken their car to the shop for a manufacturer's upgrade (it does happen) and when you get it back your car is broken and in worse condition than when it went in. Imagine it. Would anyone in their right mind accept that from the shop, from the dealer and/or the manufacturer.

Here - I'll help with the answer. HELL NO They wouldn't.

So why is it OKAY for Frontier and every other game developer in the world? Because over the years they have brain washed gamers to believe that it is OKAY. Why, We, the game companies cannot possibly do it right the first time, no way, software is just sooooo very complicated. Well - Boo hoo. They release broken and incomplete software because they can, because money, because of all the apologists and fan bois in their player bases.

THEY DO IT BECAUSE THEY CAN! :mad:

There's a saying here in the USA that is apropo - "Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should."

Frontier and every other game company on the planet should post that in foot tall letters in every room of the business and make its employees from the CEO down to the lowest on the totem pole recite it out loud each morning before beginning work.

Until gamers stop accepting 2nd rate, broken crap from game companies by voting with their wallets game companies will continue to release broken crap.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!
 
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juanopen4

J
Agony_Aunt said:
But i am suggesting that perhaps its time for people to get over it. It has been a month already.
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It has also been almost 40 years since the first elite came out, and that does not prevent them from saying in each publication that the developers make, that this game was wonderful and that they have been playing since the first elite.
I don't know, 40 years have passed, get over it now, today a minimum of quality is required in this industry, and that is not the important thing, if not to be faithful with your clients, as they have been with frontier, and not deceive them .
They deserve all the criticism they receive and much more.
Negativity? LOL, some people can be complaining about a bad product 24/7 and still remain positive in all other aspects of life.
Maybe you are the elite fans who have nothing else to do?
Which behavior is worse, criticizing every day or going crazy responding to every criticism?
I do not know, I see this thread that you have created and how you are responding to each and every one of the people and it does not seem like a healthy activity or that leaves much room to enjoy other things or more positive conversations ... are you sure that you are positive people,frontiers superfans ?
practically some of you are every day at all hours against other people or trolling them with absurd graces doing your unpaid work.

Blind faith in something or someone, also creates quite negative behaviors,you just have to observe the world and its disputes for the same reason.
 
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