The ARX Bamboozle - Cows to the Slaughter

[StuartGT]

Bet those few minor tweaks are why we don't have ice planets or fleet carriers.

Given that consoles meet or exceed the minimum requirements for the game...

I doubt it.

There are still EDH players gaming on systems that barely meet the minimum requirements for the game. At that level, FD aim to provide a minimum of 30fps in all areas at 720p.

In essence, FD's minimum spec PC cannot produce 30fps (or at least approach it) on an ice planet, or fleet carrier then its unlikely to be introduced this side of the paid for DLC. Not because it can't be done on console, but because it can't be done on a pc capable of playing the game as is.

This of, course, will change on release of the next paid for DLC, as then, just as with Horizons, FD are pretty much free to raise the bar a little.

IMO Karrde's bet is safe. The problems of platform parity is something I've thought for almost two years now, at least for Ice Planets in this case. Here's my thinking...

Hardware capability is one factor - the other is the Cobra engine's graphics API compatibility. Cobra was already fully compatible with Windows, Xbox 360 & One because of previous FDev games released on said platforms, and so it was a relatively easy task to port Elite to Xbox One.

However, Elite was FDev's first game to be ported to the PS4's APIs (Gnm & Gnmx) and I think FDev's engine/platform teams had graphics compatibility issues that - initially - couldn't be overcome, namely the beige plague introduced in Horizons 2.2 (late 2016) alongside the new otherwise-better-looking planet shaders. This issue would be resolved in the Beyond 3.0 build over a year later.

The initial PS4 port would have been built by FDev's Cobra team using the Horizons 2.2 codebase and then alpha testing/fixing conducted to ensure platform stability; the fully working PS4 port would then be updated to Horizons 2.3 the following Spring. With the PS4 port internally-scheduled to release June 2017 around E3 to maximise publicity, and the engine team also working on Cobra PS4 compatibility for in-production Jurassic World Evolution (due June 2018), there wasn't the time to resolve the PS4 planet shader issues. So I reckon the team chose "beige plague" to ensure build & platform parity, as opposed to Windows/Xbox having better, fully-working shaders than the PS4 port (a big marketing problem: "don't buy Elite PS4 cos PC & Xbox are better").

Once the JWE PS4 build was stable (Autumn 2017), the engine/platform team had time to fix the beige plague issue, which then arrived in Feb 2018's Beyond 3.0 for all platforms.

I figure the same has happened with Ice Planets: new shaders coded and fully-working on Windows/Xbox (DirectX 11), but problematic on PS4 (Gnx/Gnmx). They've therefore been postponed until said compatibility issues can be resolved to ensure platform parity.

Along these lines, I would not be surprised if the new Ice Planets arrive simultaneously with DirectX 12 API support (Windows/Xbox) for better graphical performance and effects. PS4's Gnmx has equivalent low-level functionality to DX12.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

IMO Karrde's bet is safe. The problems of platform parity is something I've thought for almost two years now, at least for Ice Planets in this case. Here's my thinking...

Hardware capability is one factor - the other is the Cobra engine's graphics API compatibility. Cobra was already fully compatible with Windows, Xbox 360 & One because of previous FDev games released on said platforms, and so it was a relatively easy task to port Elite to Xbox One.

However, Elite was FDev's first game to be ported to the PS4's APIs (Gnm & Gnmx) and I think FDev's engine/platform teams had graphics compatibility issues that - initially - couldn't be overcome, namely the beige plague introduced in Horizons 2.2 (late 2016) alongside the new otherwise-better-looking planet shaders. This issue would be resolved in the Beyond 3.0 build over a year later.

The initial PS4 port would have been built by FDev's Cobra team using the Horizons 2.2 codebase and then alpha testing/fixing conducted to ensure platform stability; the fully working PS4 port would then be updated to Horizons 2.3 the following Spring. With the PS4 port internally-scheduled to release June 2017 around E3 to maximise publicity, and the engine team also working on Cobra PS4 compatibility for in-production Jurassic World Evolution (due June 2018), there wasn't the time to resolve the PS4 planet shader issues. So I reckon the team chose "beige plague" to ensure build & platform parity, as opposed to Windows/Xbox having better, fully-working shaders than the PS4 port (a big marketing problem: "don't buy Elite PS4 cos PC & Xbox are better").

Once the JWE PS4 build was stable (Autumn 2017), the engine/platform team had time to fix the beige plague issue, which then arrived in Feb 2018's Beyond 3.0 for all platforms.

I figure the same has happened with Ice Planets: new shaders coded and fully-working on Windows/Xbox (DirectX 11), but problematic on PS4 (Gnx/Gnmx). They've therefore been postponed until said compatibility issues can be resolved to ensure platform parity.

Along these lines, I would not be surprised if the new Ice Planets arrive simultaneously with DirectX 12 API support (Windows/Xbox) for better graphical performance and effects. PS4's Gnmx has equivalent low-level functionality to DX12.

Some interesting scenarios.!

From also running on ps4 pro, my gut feeling was it was a performance issue more than anything else. Given the stable framerate the pro (which is above a lesser model) gets, the fact that there's no attempt at vr or even 4k (which immense games like rdr 4 support in some fashion).. also given my modest pc (7 yr old cpu and 1060) runs elite just fine at 2560.. i concluded they hadn't optimised for the ps4?

Either that or they are hitting the limits somehow already and ice planets and carriers which you could imagine would add alot of geometry would fail tests for the current engine state running that content.

Also frontier do already explicitly support the ps4 pro. There are some specific graphic options and a bunch of articles in the support base, so its not like they haven't looked at it (like all the bugs in they game they get excused from being oblivious to).

 

[Rick6549]

Yeah, blah blah, white knights nonsense, who cares, look at this though:


Is that really the signature you want? I guess you're trying to make a dig at all the people that have their rational faculties about them, but are you really going to put in your signature what amounts to "I cannot even win in a race against the physically impaired"?

Didn't quite think that through either, eh?

And he wonders why his video got taken down. Im willing to bet my beluga that it some over the top offensive text to go with it

 

[Mohrgan]

I expect everyone else is getting this response for similar offenses right? Oh wait...

Oooh! Burn.

 

[Stigbob]

I'm right there with you. Stigbob should have a special FD medal for white knighting lol.

No need for medals, I get free ARX just for having fun.

 

[Cervantes01]

I know right, the audacity of Stigbob. Fancy having the guile to not only like the game but to have the guts to stand up for it as well. Much easier being one of the sheeple that
jump on the latest 'I hate FD' bandwagon, often not even knowing what they are rallying against (the Arx 'controversy ' is a classic example).

I might not agree with Stigbob says a lot of the time, but I will defend his right to say it. Anyway, the term 'White Knight' is so overused here it has lost all meaning. For most it is a weak and often pathetic insult at anyone who disagrees with your statement and you don't have the intelligence to counter it.

Are you his alt?

 

[Rick6549]

Are you his alt?

No thats me, im his alt

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

So, how many of you have purchased the Krait Phantom salvage paint jobs with these awesome new ARX? I bought this pack back in May of this year, and it cost me a whopping $4. If you add them all up in the store post ARX, you're spending $10.60 for the same thing!

White knights, justify this, please. What exactly has changed with this paint pack to justify a 2.5X increase in price? Oh, and this isn't the only paint pack that has drastically increased in price. Almost everything has gone up significantly since the introduction of ARX. Luckily I have my purchase history because I'm already starting to forget what things used to actually cost.

I'm not surprised there aren't more threads about this topic because the purpose of ARX seems to be working perfectly. No one knows what they pay for anything anymore, and obfuscation is working so well, they don't even care. Why is the community OK with this? FDev can't get fleet carriers out the door in over two years, but by God, they'll get this new money-making scam out the door without delay! No matter how badly it effs up the actual game, ARX and the new store were there right on time! And everyone is super cool with this behavior and will always defend it? Madness!

Before you come back with the predictable "Yea, getting stuff for FREE now is way worse than before," you're kidding yourself. It would take you six weeks to earn ONE of those paint jobs and a grand total of 36 weeks to earn all of them. If that is "FREE" to you, then you must severely undervalue your time. 400 ARX a week is a joke. It's a sample of a drug to get you hooked so that you buy more.

As consumers, we should demand more transparency on what we are purchasing. I don't mind paying for things, but trying to bamboozle me by hiding costs is the quickest way to lose me as a customer.

We should be demanding that the actual cost of something in ARX is represented in real currency by the highest cost/ARX ratio, so we at least have a slight idea of what we are paying. I know I can whip out a calculator and figure it out, but that's not the point, and I obviously did that for this post. You shouldn't need to do that to figure out what you're paying for something, and with a tiny amount of effort, FDev could do it for you next to each item in the store. But, they won't unless we make them.

You know, cows never resist going to the slaughterhouse because they're too dumb to know what's going on around them. I guess that's what this community has become, a bunch of oblivious cows from which money is harvested. You can either choose to moo on or take a stand against dishonest business practices and demand more transparency. I'm taking that stand and refuse to purchase anything further from the store until it begins to demonstrate more honest business practices. I'm not asking for ARX to go away, I'm asking that we know what we are paying for something in real currency through the store.

The answer is simple really. Fdev decided their time and effort was more valuable then previously being charged. CoD used to have 2 dollar weapon skins now everything is probably in loot boxes. Idk tbh i stopped playing those after black ops 3

 

[M00ka]

No thats me, im his alt

Wait, are you Stig's alt or my alt, and if it is the latter, is Stig your alt?

I am so confused …...

 

[Rick6549]

Wait, are you Stig's alt or my alt, and if it is the latter, is Stig your alt?

I am so confused …...

Yes

 

[Stigbob]

Are you his alt?

No thats me, im his alt

 

[Deleted member 182079]

No need for medals, I get free ARX just for having fun.

Not disputing the above, but from my own experience I get disproportionately more Arx for activities that are decidedly less fun, such as mat trading, buying/selling expensive ship modules and moving ships around the bubble via transfer (it seems the higher the cost, the more Arx you earn). Wish they would balance it a bit better but I also can't say I have trouble maxing out my weekly allowance. Very much depends what I'm doing though as some activities earn little to nothing Arx wise.

 

[Rat Catcher]

No thats me, im his alt

I am Stigbob, and so are my dogs...

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I know right, the audacity of Stigbob. Fancy having the guile to not only like the game but to have the guts to stand up for it as well. Much easier being one of the sheeple that
jump on the latest 'I hate FD' bandwagon, often not even knowing what they are rallying against (the Arx 'controversy ' is a classic example).

I might not agree with Stigbob says a lot of the time, but I will defend his right to say it. Anyway, the term 'White Knight' is so overused here it has lost all meaning. For most it is a weak and often pathetic insult at anyone who disagrees with your statement and you don't have the intelligence to counter it.

What? Stigbob's here for entertainment. Isn't it obvious?

Look just because the white knights here lose every joust (there's nothing deserving white knighting so its easy) and 99.9% are in denial about being one.. doesn't mean the rest of the community can't see whats going on. Being defensive of which camp you sit in is really unnecessary just be honest.

 

[zimms]

I am beginning to sympathise with some of those here who are against Arx, it must be a living hell for you all.

For those that are convinced Arx is akin to a gateway drug that will force you to spend more money that you can afford, life must be hell for you. Every time you walk into your local supermarket and see that sweet old lady giving out free cheese samples, you are that compelled to buy a trolley full of cheese that you don't want, just because of that single free cube of deliciousness on a toothpick. [and so on]

Just as a counter argument: I'm not a heroin addict, because my willpower is apparently strong enough, but my opinion can still be "drugs are bad, mkay?".

Some people exaggerate with words like "predatory" etc. but there's a reason why companies love to obfuscate costs and "reward" customers will almost uselessly small amounts of store credit or discounts. It's not to the customer's benefit, but the company's.

 

[Deleted member 182079]

I am beginning to sympathise with some of those here who are against Arx, it must be a living hell for you all.

For those that are convinced Arx is akin to a gateway drug that will force you to spend more money that you can afford, life must be hell for you. Every time you walk into your local supermarket and see that sweet old lady giving out free cheese samples, you are that compelled to buy a trolley full of cheese that you don't want, just because of that single free cube of deliciousness on a toothpick. Everytime you see a 'two for one' offer on TV, you instantly grab the phone, sure you don't need that extra set of steak knives that are included but damn they are FREE, you have to have them (even if you don't really need the main thing that is being sold - after all, it must be good, you get a free set of steak knives).

For those who think there is some dastardly hidden motive behind Arxs and that FD is secretly forcing you to buy fluff when you don't want it, rage away. Just like you stood there and abused that sweet old lady giving out the free cheese samples at the supermarket. Doesn't she know that someone, somewhere might be lactose intolerant, and yet they be so weak willed and well stupid to accept the free cheese even though the know it will upset their delicate constitutions?

Finally for those that NEED TO KNOW THE EXACT COST. Really, how did you survive previously unless you dealt exclusively in the British Pound. I know for a fact I was never 100% sure what the exchange rate between Pounds and Aust Dollars were, depending on the health of the currency market it could have been several dollars difference. But ya know that, it didn't worry me, guess I am just stupid or something and should have been complaining about that from the start huh.

While I don't consider myself the target audience of your post (I hope I'm not anyways), I just want to say that what I believe the real problem with Arx is - i.e. the need to buy Arx in pre-defined packs which are designed to always leave you with a leftover balance. If it was just Arx, I honestly couldn't care less, it'd just be another currency conversion requirement which is no big deal for most of us.

We all know why it's designed the way it is, and just because this forum is (largely) made up of mature individuals recognising this scheme and (mostly) handling it in an adult way (either ignoring it altogether, or knowingly buying into it because they can), doesn't mean there aren't lots of other players out there on which this works as intended; otherwise it wouldn't be an increasingly common scheme in the industry. Imagine if you were forced to pay all your shopping via pre-purchased vouchers instead.

It has certainly raised the bar for me in terms of actually visiting the store to buy Arx, but I won't make this a matter of principle - once I have enough items I want to buy that make up one of the pre-defined Arx bundles, I'll buy one no problem.

Unlike the OP, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything - just trying to explain my issue with it and how it has affected my purchasing habits as a result, which is probably more relevant to Frontier than other forumites.

 

[M00ka]

Just as a counter argument: I'm not a heroin addict, because my willpower is apparently strong enough, but my opinion can still be "drugs are bad, mkay?".

Some people exaggerate with words like "predatory" etc. but there's a reason why companies love to obfuscate costs and "reward" customers will almost uselessly small amounts of store credit or discounts. It's not to the customer's benefit, but the company's.

Sorry, did you just equate heroin addiction to a FD giving Arx away for free?

 

[zimms]

Sorry, did you just equate heroin addiction to a FD giving Arx away for free?

No.

Did you equate not liking Arx to having a cheese addiction?

 

[M00ka]

No.

Did you equate not liking Arx to having a cheese addiction?

Nope, read it again, I hinted at lactose intolerance

 

[Stigbob]

Not disputing the above, but from my own experience I get disproportionately more Arx for activities that are decidedly less fun, such as mat trading, buying/selling expensive ship modules and moving ships around the bubble via transfer (it seems the higher the cost, the more Arx you earn). Wish they would balance it a bit better but I also can't say I have trouble maxing out my weekly allowance. Very much depends what I'm doing though as some activities earn little to nothing Arx wise.

Since I play for fun by never trying to grind or min-max stuff I wouldn't know how to do it the boring way. ARX is just a bonus side effect and therefore a positive thing.

The alternative sounds like pebcak to me, never do stuff you don't like for entertainment.

What? Stigbob's here for entertainment. Isn't it obvious?

Look just because the white knights here lose every joust (there's nothing deserving white knighting so its easy) and 99.9% are in denial about being one.. doesn't mean the rest of the community can't see whats going on. Being defensive of which camp you sit in is really unnecessary just be honest.

Dang right I'm here for my entertainment.

Nothing funnier than outraged salty gamers crying a river about a non issue.